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Data Core Changes.. Solo Player.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2012-05-21 21:20:44 UTC
"Get stuff, move stuff, sell stuff" can be used to describe most pve. Datacore farming requires far less interaction than other pve, to the point where income is not lost for lack of diligence. That goes goes against the spirit of Eve.

It is as close as possible to "true passive" isk that you point out, which is why people complain about it so much. It's true that passiveness is a sliding scale, but datacore farming is out of whack with all other "passive" activities.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Widow Cain
#22 - 2012-05-21 21:45:32 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Im kinda curious...
To make money from Datacores you have to get them then take them somewhere to then sell to someone else, correct?

Kinda like how the PI stuff gathers but you have to collect it and bring it to a hub/market/w/e to then sell it?

How is that passive income? Wouldnt true passive income be like if instead of getting items/fuel from the PI buildings they randomly ticked an amount of ISK directly into your wallet?

PI is not done at your leisure, when you feel like it once a month. You will make very little isk that way. To make real profit, it requires a lot of planning, maintenance every few days, and most importantly, ACTUALLY UNDOCKING.

Ergo, no, not passive.


But but but if I undock I could loose my ship Shocked

OMG You are sooo pixel macho...
Lady PimpStar
Storm Chasers.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-05-21 21:48:21 UTC
Yeah but PI i what 12 days of training? Low bar for entry where as data cores requires a large commitment to be able to access then you still have to do stuff to even make that money. Sounds like it belongs in Eve. I still need to gather all the data cores and take them to whatever base of operations I have to be able to put the data cores to good use. Some lazy people they just sell them out right and miss out on making anything are just as bad as the mission runner that don't sell there loot correctly.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#24 - 2012-05-21 21:51:48 UTC
Patch notes:http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

Research agents and datacore changes
Datacore offers have been added to Factional Warfare Militia Corporations (250 LP and 250,000 ISK for a package of 5):

24th Imperial Crusade: Amarrian Starship Engineering, High Energy Physics, Laser Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Nanite Engineering.

State Protectorate: Caldari Starship Engineering, Graviton Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Quantum Physics, Rocket Science.

Federal Defense Union: Electromagnetic Physics, Electronic Engineering, Gallentean Starship Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Plasma Physics.

Tribal Liberal Force: Hydromagnetic Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Minmatar Starship Engineering, Molecular Engineering, Nuclear Physics.

Please remember all above prices are affected by War Zone Control LP Store multipliers.

Field multipliers for all research categories have been removed (this affects Research Point per day). Besides, all Research Points requirements to claim one Datacore have been increased from 50 to 100.

Research Point amounts will not be adjusted in any shape or form with Inferno release.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#25 - 2012-05-21 22:15:38 UTC
Lady PimpStar wrote:
Yeah but PI i what 12 days of training? Low bar for entry where as data cores requires a large commitment to be able to access then you still have to do stuff to even make that money. Sounds like it belongs in Eve. I still need to gather all the data cores and take them to whatever base of operations I have to be able to put the data cores to good use. Some lazy people they just sell them out right and miss out on making anything are just as bad as the mission runner that don't sell there loot correctly.

Things balanced by "cost of entry" are bound to be unbalanced. It might not be the best analogy, but you can look at supercaps for that.

Lady PimpStar wrote:
then you still have to do stuff to even make that money

Like what?

You are aware that if you want to make a lot of profit from PI, it also requires a lot of investment and risk (higher tier processing, lowsec POCOs, etc) in addition to having more inherent risk due to having to use haulers to move stuff around. You also still have to "do stuff to even make that money" just as with datacores.

The problem here is not the process that follows getting datacores. The problem is the way datacores are acquired. Currently, after the ramp-up for skills and standings, it is just "sit there, receive research points, cash them in at your leisure" as opposed to PI, which requires more planning, specific times you should go get your stuff from in space, possibly protecting a POCO, etc. In other words, PI requires effort out of the norm to keep going, whereas datacore farming does not.

I agree that it's somewhat unfair to everyone who spent skill points, ISK, and time to get their characters to be able to do this, and perhaps a system should be created so all that time/ISK is not wasted, but continuing the way datacores currently work is unacceptable.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-21 22:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Hello OP,

As a fellow inventor you should know that the datacores you produce yourself are not nearly enough to keep up a decent rate of invention and t2 production.
I always considered those just a small bonus and bought most of them from the market anyway.
With the upcoming changes, FW people can get lots of datacores dirtcheap, so you should expect a large influx into the markets and dropping prices of datacores within the next weeks.
That's a good thing for inventors. And a bad thing for all those poeple who bought lots of datacores the last weeks because they speculated on rising prices.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#27 - 2012-05-22 01:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
"Get stuff, move stuff, sell stuff" can be used to describe most pve. Datacore farming requires far less interaction than other pve, to the point where income is not lost for lack of diligence. That goes goes against the spirit of Eve.

It is as close as possible to "true passive" isk that you point out, which is why people complain about it so much. It's true that passiveness is a sliding scale, but datacore farming is out of whack with all other "passive" activities.



Well then by your definition, moon goo, PI, pretty much anything where you have to take stuff from one place to another after making it would then BE passive. Especially Industry. You arent actively building ships are you? No, you put it in the oven and wait

MadMuppet wrote:
Patch notes:http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

Research agents and datacore changes
Datacore offers have been added to Factional Warfare Militia Corporations (250 LP and 250,000 ISK for a package of 5):

24th Imperial Crusade: Amarrian Starship Engineering, High Energy Physics, Laser Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Nanite Engineering.

State Protectorate: Caldari Starship Engineering, Graviton Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Quantum Physics, Rocket Science.

Federal Defense Union: Electromagnetic Physics, Electronic Engineering, Gallentean Starship Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Plasma Physics.

Tribal Liberal Force: Hydromagnetic Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Minmatar Starship Engineering, Molecular Engineering, Nuclear Physics.

Please remember all above prices are affected by War Zone Control LP Store multipliers.

Field multipliers for all research categories have been removed (this affects Research Point per day). Besides, all Research Points requirements to claim one Datacore have been increased from 50 to 100.

Research Point amounts will not be adjusted in any shape or form with Inferno release.


yup, buy T2 stuff now once this goes live you wont see it anymore.
Ppl dont do FW for a reason

Well, itll be fun seeing ppl having to use meta stuff again lol

CCP Goonwave gets to try his hand at destroying the T2 market like he was drooling about in that TTH video lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-05-22 01:21:56 UTC
Lady PimpStar wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Passive income sources do not belong in Eve. You have to actually work for continuing success.

Also lookit me, I'm part of a small corp and I'm posting with my main. Surely I will be killed 10 times by tomorrow.



I think of Data Cores like Cell phones, it takes time to create them and it's passive income onces your sources is setup. If more cell phone companies are in business thats less profit for you. What about comcast or verizon, onces everything you worked so hard for is setup you get to charge a small subscription fee for very little work.

I don't see comcast at my house everyday running a mission from me to receive my monthly money.

Plus your data cores are meaning less unless they are turned into something useful anyway,

So besides people being upset that data cores are not like missions or incursions what is the real problem?
I share your angst / concern about the time invested into raising up standings with a NPC Research Corp.

I spent several months missioning to have nearly perfect standings on an alt. That resulted in RL currency in CCP's wallet for the extra account and ISK in my alts wallet. I worked hard at getting those standings. Passive, my left nut.

Furthermore, I need to collect those datacores every so often, bring them to market and then judge if it is the right time to sell. Still, no income in my alt's wallet until I put up the sell order upon which another player takes action. Not passive and no income until the sale is made.

Unfortunately, CCP's crack designer, CCP Soundwave, believes differently.

I must disagree with the use of Comcast and other Internet Service Providers as models of passive income, though. Those organizations have significant infrastructure and support costs associated with the services that gives you an IP address and connectivity to the rest of the world. Your monthly tithe pays for quite a bit before what's left is considered profit.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Lady PimpStar
Storm Chasers.
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2012-05-22 11:08:36 UTC
If they wanted to add some risk just move the higher payout datacore agents to lowsec. I feel like they are forcing invention to be something it shouldn't be by stapling it into the LP store.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-05-22 11:15:30 UTC
Will we get our research agent related sp back?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#31 - 2012-05-22 11:27:38 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Tinnin Sylph wrote:
Someone put in the time and effort but it wasn't me therefore CCP must remove the fruits of their labour from them.

Seems reasonable.



also applies here

Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Im kinda curious...
To make money from Datacores you have to get them then take them somewhere to then sell to someone else, correct?

Kinda like how the PI stuff gathers but you have to collect it and bring it to a hub/market/w/e to then sell it?

How is that passive income? Wouldnt true passive income be like if instead of getting items/fuel from the PI buildings they randomly ticked an amount of ISK directly into your wallet?

PI is not done at your leisure, when you feel like it once a month. You will make very little isk that way. To make real profit, it requires a lot of planning, maintenance every few days, and most importantly, ACTUALLY UNDOCKING.

Ergo, no, not passive.


ugh... I never said it was

read it again

I was comparing data cores to PI and then asking "HOW is that passive?"

IE saying its not

then going on to ask if passive Isk wouldnt actually be:
"instead of getting items/fuel from the PI buildings they randomly ticked an amount of ISK directly into your wallet?"

Man ppl need reading comprehension here

Not just knee jerk reacting "PI = passive?? OMG I MUST POAST"

Sorry for overreacting, it just bugs the **** out of me


Datacores are harvested once every 6 months or so. Requiring ~100 jumps that can be done in a covops in maybe an hour and a half. Then create the courier contracts, wait for the itty 5 with your cores to get to jita/get popped, count your isk.

An hour and a half of effort every 6 months or more is about as passive as you can get. T2 BPOs require more effort (per unit time, not isk), Tech moons require more effort (even discounting protection, etc). There is no EvE income source as passive as Datacores.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Zora'e
#32 - 2012-05-22 11:51:29 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I'm sure Comcast just sit on their asses all day and just passively earn money. No support, no maintenance, no upgrades, no management. All of their thousands of employees get paid every month for having set up some towers years ago, and nowadays they just play solitaire all day.

Income over time without continued effort is a bad idea and shouldn't exist.


Considering the horrid service I received from Comcast... I'd say your assessment was 100% accurate.

I won't say you are stupid, but you're not exactly on the Zombie menu either.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#33 - 2012-05-22 12:20:52 UTC
Let the farming datacores with guns(like mining with guns) begin.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#34 - 2012-05-22 12:28:18 UTC
Truth is that if datacore farming was such an easy ride then so many people would have done it that prices would have tanked to the point of being worthless.

The datacore nerf is part of CCP's war on highsec.
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-05-22 12:42:27 UTC
I can feel the OP´s pain, as i´m in the same situation.

There was a lot of effort in SP, grinding standing to be able to have this passive income. And yes it is PASSIVE INCOME, coz even PI needs mor effort (and after doing PI for some days i never touched it again - so these SP are wasted too).

I will have a look where this is going (DC prices) and after 6 month (when DC prices are down to hell, if) i will rage at CCP to reimburse these wasted SP, when i shut down my R&D Agents, because it´s not worth the travel time.
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#36 - 2012-05-22 12:50:06 UTC
Datacores is too much of a passive income and HAD no costs associated with it. Even though you've spent a lot of time grinding up those standings doesn't mean you should be given a free income of items that can be exchanged for currency. That and they wanted another isk sink, which is perfectly understandable given the current situation.

If anything, datacores will simply end up stabilizing at about 10k plus current prices to make up for them being costly to take out of the research agent.
Morkus Rex
Purarg
#37 - 2012-05-22 12:52:29 UTC
My Postman wrote:
I can feel the OP´s pain, as i´m in the same situation.

There was a lot of effort in SP, grinding standing to be able to have this passive income. And yes it is PASSIVE INCOME, coz even PI needs mor effort (and after doing PI for some days i never touched it again - so these SP are wasted too).

I will have a look where this is going (DC prices) and after 6 month (when DC prices are down to hell, if) i will rage at CCP to reimburse these wasted SP, when i shut down my R&D Agents, because it´s not worth the travel time.


Well, some of us actually do some of the daily missions for our r&d agents, so it is not entriely passive... Cool

I will agree with you on shutting down the agents, the travelling time on 3 toons with 6 agents each, that will not be worth it anymore.

Nobody cares about what you care about!
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-05-22 12:53:47 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
Datacores is too much of a passive income and HAD no costs associated with it. Even though you've spent a lot of time grinding up those standings doesn't mean you should be given a free income of items that can be exchanged for currency. That and they wanted another isk sink, which is perfectly understandable given the current situation.

If anything, datacores will simply end up stabilizing at about 10k plus current prices to make up for them being costly to take out of the research agent.



ok, there's too much plex in game, plex needs nerf. Roll

brb
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-22 13:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zowie Powers
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Let the farming datacores with guns(like mining with guns) begin.


Yeah, now you mention it... it's rucking fetarded. The LP Store, particularly FW LP has become CCP's "easy option" whenever they can't think of something actually good.

ATX: The best of the rest.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-05-22 13:18:23 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
Datacores is too much of a passive income and HAD no costs associated with it. Even though you've spent a lot of time grinding up those standings doesn't mean you should be given a free income of items that can be exchanged for currency. That and they wanted another isk sink, which is perfectly understandable given the current situation.

If anything, datacores will simply end up stabilizing at about 10k plus current prices to make up for them being costly to take out of the research agent.


Unlike Technetium!

Unlike that!

Don't forget, Goon Friend, your passive income is OKAY!
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