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High sec plexes need entry keys

Author
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#81 - 2012-05-21 14:44:33 UTC
Plentath wrote:

Your post is well intentioned, and in a large part I can't really disagree. What I can say is Eve isn't fair, and competition in this manner will always favour those with an edge, whether this is fitting, ship or SP.

What will locking T3s out do? Make the superbear use a Drake? What if he doesn't always win on those terms ... you don't think he'll use faction mods to restore his competition?

The logical solution to this is to STOP COMPETING if you have no chance to win on the terms as given. You don't need to go to lowsec to find 3/10 or 4/10 sites - they often sit around in quiet highsec for hours untouched.


Anyone with the ISK can use faction, deadspace and officer mods even before having the skills to use tech 2 equipment, so in theory that is more an equalizer than a brick wall barrier like SP.

I agree about the last part, makes no sense to bang your head to the wall, but I would just like high sec to have mechanisms that don't favour everbears in blingships over new players. Competition should emphasize player skill over SP, that's all.

(there are no 3/10s and lower in lowsec, which I think is also broken considering the ridiculously juicy drops in 3/10s)

.

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-05-21 14:52:50 UTC
3/10s and them are the closest things to an entry level site around. Newbies are driven away from all the interesting ways to make ISK because of the competition from vets. No, it's not even competition, it's like a steamroller going over a beetle.

Competition for these sites should be between rookies and rookies. Vets should be discouraged from running the smaller sites and attracted towards the higher sites. Should vets be blocked completely from running low-levels? No, but they should feel lowlevels aren't worth their time.

Really, being a newbie is boring. Rookies can only really do mining or missions for ISK. Yeah, PvP is possible but it's not a viable way to make money. The interesting stuff has that SP barrier, and a big part of the exploration barrier is vets doing the same sites that are also the only sites open to rookies...

Exploration is supposed to be a viable career path for month-olds.

I don't agree with the key thing in the OP, I think previous posters are right in saying it's not EVE. But newbies need something to do themselves. The NPE is really bad and I think this is just one of the reasons. Discourage vets from doing these sites.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#83 - 2012-05-21 14:57:38 UTC
knulla wrote:
I can use your argument VS anything in EVE including fleet fights, alliances and CORP wars, in fact, if we followed your argument we might as well shut down EVE today.


No idea what you are ranting about, what does SP barrier have to do with fleet fights and alliances?

Quote:
why are there limits? because of the player vs NPC balance, not because of PVP stealing someones PLEX. Newbies can also fly t3's oh and newbies do not have to do PLEX sites etc. Or we can all ask CCP to move all sites, plex and level 4's into lowsec that I asked for, that is better right?


Ok, so why are there sites with easier NPCs if not for newer players? Why are there level 1 missions?

And yes, I fully support moving all high-income PVE stuff out of highsec. It would solve this issue, among with many others. Lowsec would be the natural next step after learning basic mechanics.

Quote:
I see when EVE strikes where it hurts then all of the sudden you people show your true colors. You guys need to find a new game, it is too hard for you I see. Because if PVE competition is unfair, what isn't?


Lol. Wtf would be my true color, good sir? Competition is the reason I play this game, it just shouldn't be a competition of SP amounts, but player skill. Like combat, where the better pilot with low SP can win a higher SP pilot. In the current meta of highsec plexing, all you need is a better ship and you win with no effort.

.

knulla
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-05-21 15:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: knulla
Roime wrote:
knulla wrote:
I can use your argument VS anything in EVE including fleet fights, alliances and CORP wars, in fact, if we followed your argument we might as well shut down EVE today.


No idea what you are ranting about, what does SP barrier have to do with fleet fights and alliances?

All of it, not like goons used frigates at one point, successfully might I add.

Quote:
why are there limits? because of the player vs NPC balance, not because of PVP stealing someones PLEX. Newbies can also fly t3's oh and newbies do not have to do PLEX sites etc. Or we can all ask CCP to move all sites, plex and level 4's into lowsec that I asked for, that is better right?


Ok, so why are there sites with easier NPCs if not for newer players? Why are there level 1 missions?

it is about the reward, I am all for decreasing rewards or moving them to lowsec, new players should be in lowsec anyway if they are doing this stuff. But at the end of the day, if a 2003 player wants to do level 1's he can do so

And yes, I fully support moving all high-income PVE stuff out of highsec. It would solve this issue, among with many others. Lowsec would be the natural next step after learning basic mechanics.

Amen to that!

Quote:
I see when EVE strikes where it hurts then all of the sudden you people show your true colors. You guys need to find a new game, it is too hard for you I see. Because if PVE competition is unfair, what isn't?


Lol. Wtf would be my true color, good sir? Competition is the reason I play this game, it just shouldn't be a competition of SP amounts, but player skill. Like combat, where the better pilot with low SP can win a higher SP pilot. In the current meta of highsec plexing, all you need is a better ship and you win with no effort.

You started out at one point as a day 1 old character, right? Yet you got here, and EVE is not about always being fair, or equal numbers in 2 blobs fighting each other either or one pilot using boosters and the other not having the skills, that is all part of EVE. Stop asking for those with less to do just as well with those who worked for it.

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#85 - 2012-05-21 15:08:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…except that none of that is what's happening. They're not really entry-level sites — they're sites tuned for smaller ships. They're not in EVE's starter area — they're in highsec. They're not particularly made for new players — they're made for people who want to fly those smaller ships. What you're describing isn't a problem. It's just the PvP nature of EVE as applied to highsec exploration.


4/10s are entry level content scaled for T1 cruisers with T1 tank, in any better ship there is absolutely no risk of getting blown up.

High security exists only to allow people to get their **** together before leaving it. I'm worried that you don't actually get this.

Nature of PVP is the better pilot/fleet wins, SP doesn't dictate the outcome of a fight except in artificial 1vs1 situations with exactly the same fits and pre-agreed tactics.

Quote:
Not to finish them, no. To do them efficiently and to win against competitors trying to do the same, they certainly do. SP doesn't win you anything because you are still the one who have to apply them intelligently and who then have to make those applications count.


Applying intelligently Lol you mean like the ultimate intellectual challenge of blitzing a GSO? PVE in overpowered ships requires no intelligence whatsoever, and neither does reading site walk-thrus from that wikkawakka ****.

Quote:
Great. That means there's no problem and that, in fact, the current situation provides a solution to a different problem.


Yes, there is a problem, which I just described. Everbears choose highsec where they don't need to risk anything and get easy ISK, new players get the shaft.

Quote:
But tell, Tippia, what was your argument against locking T3s from hisec plexes?
Because there's no need to do so and because it doesn't actually solve anything. The limits are there to provide content for different-size ships so you can compete in a frigate-level arena if you feel like it. T3s are a cruiser, and thus are popular in cruiser sites. Contrary to popular belief, they're not necessarily the best choice from a competitive standpoint — they're just the easiest ones to get into and they provide a nice balance of the different abilities you might need for the different sites.[/quote]

I think you fly T3s in highsec plexes and want to keep your absolute advantage over new players.

.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#86 - 2012-05-21 15:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Roime wrote:
4/10s are entry level content scaled for T1 cruisers with T1 tank, in any better ship there is absolutely no risk of getting blown up.

High security exists only to allow people to get their **** together before leaving it. I'm worried that you don't actually get this.

Nature of PVP is the better pilot/fleet wins, SP doesn't dictate the outcome of a fight except in artificial 1vs1 situations with exactly the same fits and pre-agreed tactics.
The scaling doesn't matter — that's not where the fight is. The fight is getting to the end before someone else does. It's competitive content, remember? The faster you can blow through that, the better. The risk isn't in losing your ship, but in losing the loot. That's where the PvP angle comes in and why SP isn't the factor some want to claim it is.

The reason I don't “get” what you're saying about highsec is because it's not true. Again: highsec is just an area where aggression comes at a cost. That is all. It has nothing to do with dividing old and new players, and everything to do with the kind of gameplay you're after.

Quote:
Applying intelligently Lol you mean like the ultimate intellectual challenge of blitzing a GSO?
No. I mean like in picking the right skills to spend your SP on; picking the right equipment based on your SP; picking the right time and place to use that equipment; and actually using the equipment on the right stuff in the right order. SP doesn't win you anything — its application (and meta-application) does.

Quote:
Yes, there is a problem, which I just described. Everbears choose highsec where they don't need to risk anything and get easy ISK, new players get the shaft.
That is not a problem. That is the PvP nature of EVE as applied to highsec.
So what if new players cannot blitz these sites as quickly as older players with their better equipment and better knowledge can? Isn't that what better equipment and knowledge is suppose to bring you?

Quote:
I think
No, you don't. If you did, you'd try to come up with a counterpoint rather than go for an ad hominem fallacy.
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
#87 - 2012-05-21 15:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Easthir Ravin
Greetings

Instead of de-insetivising High Sec. We should be encouraging new players to look on these loot-whores as something to hold up and idolize. New players should strive to fly the T3 ships and be capable of blitzing plexes. Encourage them to study forums and killmails to understand tactics and fittings, becoming better EVE players in the process. They will look to Player corporations and alliances gaining experience along the way. Possibly even moving out to low and null sec during the growth process.

Do not look on the Plex whores as a blight but rather another one of the many player driven professions possible in EVE.

To you plex blitzers, maybe along with taunting and jeering in local chat, let that young nub know that he too can one day be blitzing plex's in a shiny T3 of his own, encouraging him to keep at it.

vr
East

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"

Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#88 - 2012-05-21 15:30:21 UTC
Roime wrote:
I agree about the last part, makes no sense to bang your head to the wall, but I would just like high sec to have mechanisms that don't favour everbears in blingships over new players. Competition should emphasize player skill over SP, that's all.

There's no way you can achieve this, however, without also removing the rewards of skilling up and buying better gear.

Even if you lock out T3s, then the new player is going to lose to the guy in a Drake who can use precision missiles and has enough spare tank to fit multiple target painters.

I don't generally disagree with your intentions, but EvE is a game where new players need to compete on different terms.

For instance, the everbears you're describing are complete loners in EvE and fly solo the entire time.

Counter: New player fits out a Heron to probe loot and salvage, allowing his corp mate to fit his Tengu for full DPS.

Everbear comes in with his all-in-one scanning Tengu and gets beaten by a less specialized ship being assisted by a new player.

That's how the sandbox should counter an inept player sitting on an SP advantage.

Or, you know, you could go on the forums and wail for magic keys.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#89 - 2012-05-21 15:30:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Easthir Ravin wrote:
To you plex blitzers, maybe along with taunting and jeering in local chat, let that young nub know that he too can one day be blitzing plex's in a shiny T3 of his own, encouraging him to keep at it.
…in fact, to that end, the OP still hasn't explained how he lost that loot as far as I can tell.

What happened?
What did that nasty ebil blitzer do?
What was the OP doing in the meantime?

Plentath wrote:
Counter: New player fits out a Heron to probe loot and salvage, allowing his corp mate to fit his Tengu for full DPS.

Everbear comes in with his all-in-one scanning Tengu and gets beaten by a less specialized ship being assisted by a new player.

That's how the sandbox should counter an inept player sitting on an SP advantage.
…put another way: fight smarter, not harder. If the other guy has an advantage don't play to that advantage. Change the game to play to his disadvantages instead. Approach the problem intelligently rather than try to do things the “normal” way, because obviously, this isn't working… but as luck would have it, there are always another way of dealing with the problem.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#90 - 2012-05-21 16:22:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The scaling doesn't matter — that's not where the fight is. The fight is getting to the end before someone else does. It's competitive content, remember? The faster you can blow through that, the better. The risk isn't in losing your ship, but in losing the loot. That's where the PvP angle comes in and why SP isn't the factor some want to claim it is.


Ok this is something we just see very differently. A combat complex or mission should definitely present a real risk of losing your ship, not to be a risk-free speed race to the finish line. Interestingly, for a new player the risk of losing a ship in fact does exist. For them, finishing the site is in itself a challenge.

Ship limits are from a time before tech 3 cruisers. Proliferation of strategic cruisers combined with site design flaws making them blitzable, overpopulation of hisec and imbalanced loot drops created the current meta of speed racing.

Now what is the deciding factor in completion time? Right, skill points. Better ship with better weapons is faster against scripted AI, and you can't overcome this by player skill. Hence, it's not PVP, it's SP vs SP.

Quote:
The reason I don't “get” what you're saying about highsec is because it's not true. Again: highsec is just an area where aggression comes at a cost. That is all. It has nothing to do with dividing old and new players, and everything to do with the kind of gameplay you're after.


There is a reason why starter systems are not in NPC null or in J127244. Aggression comes at a cost to protect new players until they are capable of taking care of themselves. That is all.

Quote:
No. I mean like in picking the right skills to spend your SP on; picking the right equipment based on your SP; picking the right time and place to use that equipment; and actually using the equipment on the right stuff in the right order. SP doesn't win you anything — its application (and meta-application) does.


None of that requires any player skill, you can read recipes for skill queues, import a fit from the web and read what NPCs you have to shoot to get the drop. Also, you mentioned SP in every sentence. SP wins you everything, as more of it is better than less. This is not true in the same way in combat PVP.

Quote:
That is not a problem. That is the PvP nature of EVE as applied to highsec.
So what if new players cannot blitz these sites as quickly as older players with their better equipment and better knowledge can? Isn't that what better equipment and knowledge is suppose to bring you?


No, the nature of PVP is that your cunning and knowledge can overcome superior equipment and SP. That is why you see faction-fitted marauders killed by frigates. Knowledge can be acquired at any rate, depending on player quality and effort. SP increases at a fixed rate, giving an absolute advantage to older characters.

Quote:
I think
No, you don't. If you did, you'd try to come up with a counterpoint rather than go for an ad hominem fallacy.[/quote]

Ad hominems are a vital part of forum PVP, and not a counterpoint to anything. It's like podding, icing on the cake. You also seem to like them.



.

Haulie Berry
#91 - 2012-05-21 16:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
"Someone is doing something I don't like.

Someone (not me, personally, but... y'know... someone!) MUST do something about this!"

Roll
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2012-05-21 16:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Roime wrote:
Ok this is something we just see very differently. A combat complex or mission should definitely present a real risk of losing your ship, not to be a risk-free speed race to the finish line. Interestingly, for a new player the risk of losing a ship in fact does exist. For them, finishing the site is in itself a challenge.
…and I think they're two completely separate entities. The compexes are about the competition; the missions are about the rats. As you become better at both, your main “weapon“ to ensure success is increased speed to the point where it's often far better to simply skip everything that can be skipped.

The ship limits don't really matter. Again, T3s aren't the pinnacle of complexing — they're just the least skill-intensive and the most easily varied. HACs and recons can quite happily outshine them in various aspects and actually be better for some purposes. The whole “onoz T3” track is just a diversion — they're not a problem.

Quote:
Now what is the deciding factor in completion time?
Equipment, which is a separate entity from skillpoints. If skillpoints were a factor, T3s — being very cheap, SP-wise — wouldn't be the topic du jour. In addition, as with everything in EVE, any kind of equipment and any amount of SP can be trivially overcome by much smaller means by simply adding one thing: numbers.

Quote:
There is a reason why starter systems are not in NPC null or in J127244.
Sure. That still doesn't make highsec a starting area.

Quote:
None of that requires any player skill
Riiight… that's why people who are following the recipes and web guides never end up as comedy killmails. No, it actually requires a bit of cerebral activity to make good use of your SP and the equipment it unlocks. The reason SP keeps occurring in that one sentence is because that's where the first decision comes, and then the rest follows. The SP itself still does absolutely squat, and more of it is not inherently better. It all depends on the application and the use, i.e. the player skill.

Quote:
No, the nature of PVP is that your cunning and knowledge can overcome superior equipment and SP.
…and as luck would have it, this holds true for exploration as well. In fact, this is probably where the OP actually failed, but since we don't know the full story, it's hard to tell.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#93 - 2012-05-21 16:40:17 UTC
Plentath wrote:
There's no way you can achieve this, however, without also removing the rewards of skilling up and buying better gear.

Even if you lock out T3s, then the new player is going to lose to the guy in a Drake who can use precision missiles and has enough spare tank to fit multiple target painters.

I don't generally disagree with your intentions, but EvE is a game where new players need to compete on different terms.

For instance, the everbears you're describing are complete loners in EvE and fly solo the entire time.

Counter: New player fits out a Heron to probe loot and salvage, allowing his corp mate to fit his Tengu for full DPS.

Everbear comes in with his all-in-one scanning Tengu and gets beaten by a less specialized ship being assisted by a new player.

That's how the sandbox should counter an inept player sitting on an SP advantage.

Or, you know, you could go on the forums and wail for magic keys.


Beating a Drake in a better Drake is much harder than beating it in a superior Tengu. Wouldn't this kind of more level competition be also more fun to the high SP guys? Or is the fun really only in always winning, because you have played longer?

idk, guess it's the same as the difference between combat pilots who downship to get a good fight, and those who upship to win with 100% certainty.

True, teamwork works, also in this case. However that is also something that few new players enjoy. Most players spend their first weeks and months(?) in starter corps, with various level of player interaction, ranging from non-existent, nearly hostile to well-organized.

While obviously sandbox solutions are great, there shouldn't be I WIN-buttons in the sandbox. And a T3 against a T1 Arbi is a foolproof win every time. No competition, no challenge, SP won. Problems like these are endemic to high sec, where sandbox options are limited. Same thing happened to Incursions, they became a blitzing ground of the higher-SP players with ISK.



.

Leetha Layne
#94 - 2012-05-21 16:41:40 UTC
Trammel that way --------->
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#95 - 2012-05-21 16:53:58 UTC
T3s and exploration complexes (ie, the ones you have to probe down) are not the problem. The real problem with complexes is (or was, if Sreegs managed to get these guys too) the people who wander into a static plex just after downtime with a permatanking frigate, and then sit there for the entire day with a macro running.

First off, DED complexes have size limitations. T3s can't even get into the smallest of these; they're entirely the domain of frigate and destroyer-sized hulls.

Second, there are plenty of things you can do to compete with the dude in the T3: like flying an AF or interceptor. You will move faster, dodge more of the fire, not to mention be able to get to the acceleration gate first - even if you have to clear all the rats before you can continue, so does the other guy! And so what if he blows up the rat with the shiny loot? Don't be a wuss, steal it. Fly a PVP-fit AF or something. If he tries to shoot you after you do that, just kill him or run away and hide for 15 minutes. You can even smack in local if you wish.

Third, scanning the sites in the first place is the first barrier to entry as it is. If you don't know how to scan sites quickly (skill training isn't all there is to it), then you won't get into the sites fast enough to get the loot before someone else. End of story. It's just like buying that stupidly low-priced thing on the market or on contracts. If you aren't quick, you will lose out. HTFU and deal with it. That's how EVE is.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-05-21 16:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Roime wrote:
While obviously sandbox solutions are great, there shouldn't be I WIN-buttons in the sandbox. And a T3 against a T1 Arbi is a foolproof win every time. No competition, no challenge, SP won.
Yeah, see… that's where the entire arguments falls apart. If SP was what won the day, then a T3 against an Arbitrator wouldn't be a foolproof win every time… because neither of them has any specific amount of SP tied to it.

Morwen Lagann wrote:
Third, scanning the sites in the first place is the first barrier to entry as it is. If you don't know how to scan sites quickly (skill training isn't all there is to it), then you won't get into the sites fast enough to get the loot before someone else. End of story. It's just like buying that stupidly low-priced thing on the market or on contracts. If you aren't quick, you will lose out. HTFU and deal with it. That's how EVE is.
…and this points to where the OP's argument falls down based on his own account: it doesn't take an hour to scan down 3/10, no matter how poor your (character) skills. Those skills may determine whether you can find it at all, but if you can, that hour means that what was lacking in this case was the player skill required to find the site. So to claim that player skill is not a factor and then use as an example a scenario where player skill made such a huge difference is quite disingenuous.

It may not have been the OP's intent to do that, but that just further reinforces the point that maybe he's not familiar enough with the game to have a good grasp of what works and what doesn't, and what factors influence the outcome.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#97 - 2012-05-21 17:11:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Roime wrote:
While obviously sandbox solutions are great, there shouldn't be I WIN-buttons in the sandbox. And a T3 against a T1 Arbi is a foolproof win every time. No competition, no challenge, SP won.
Yeah, see… that's where the entire arguments falls apart. If SP was what won the day, then a T3 against an Arbitrator wouldn't be a foolproof win every time… because neither of them has any specific amount of SP tied to it.


wut?

Even without checking I'm 100% certain you need more SP to fly a Tengu than an Arbitrator. And even a headless chicken flying the Tengu wins a competent pilot in the Arbi in the race to pop the overseer.

But I give up.

Hisec isn't what I'd like it to be, and probably never will. I have to accept that I'm a niche player in a niche game. In my opinion it shouldn't be a place where older players steamroll nub content and get rich. If you think it's fair and ok now, then so be it.

Anyway I said keep your goddamn hisec plexes when I was a month-old pilot, and I don't have to worry about them anymore P

For any new players dealing with this problem: take the jump to lowsec, you'll face less competition and there you can shoot the competition. You'll never make as much ISK as blitzing GSOs in Lonetrek, but I guarantee you have more fun, and your penis will grow 2.3cm in a month.

.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#98 - 2012-05-21 17:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Roime wrote:
wut?
If SP is what wins the fight, then I should be able to get into an Arbitrator and absolutely massacre a silly 30M SP newbie in his Tengu. Granted, I probably can, but it won't have anything to do with the SP involved…

Likewise, if SP won the day in the sense of “how much is the minimum SP required to fly the ship”, then an Eos would make mince-meat out of any kind of T3 when we go for the mid-level ones. As it happens, it can't, because SP isn't really a factor.

Quote:
And even a headless chicken flying the Tengu wins a competent pilot in the Arbi in the race to pop the overseer.
The difference is that the headless chicken in the Tengu will be shooting something other than the overseer; he'll be two rooms back plugging away at meaningless targets; hell, he'll not even be in the site yet because he's so slow with the scanning.

Quote:
Hisec isn't what I'd like it to be, and probably never will.
Well, if you see it as anything other than a place where aggression costs, then you're probably right.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-05-21 17:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: St Mio
Oh wow this thread is so full of terrible posting Sad There are some nice gems but anyhow:

  • Keys for plexes, missions, or any other PvE content is a horrible idea and I hope it never happens. If you want to play a single player game, then go play one, etc.

  • The idea of static DED plexes is way past it's expiry date, and should be all moved to the scanning system so people actually have to put some effort into finding them.

  • Tengus stole my loot: people use them to blitz sites in highsec because they're currently the most efficient for in terms of loot and time. If you ban them, people will just go to the next best thing, which will probably still result in them stealing the loot you wanted.

  • Ship restrictions in general: T3s being grouped into the same category as T1 cruisers is a really bad idea as far as acceleration gate restrictions go. On the other hand, they are the only combat ships that get a scanning bonus, so it would be silly to lock them out of sites. Maybe the sites should just escalate and spawn an extra 100 mandatory frigs if you use a T3, in the same way high end WHs do when you use caps Roll

  • DED 4/10s and phat lewtz in highsec: moving all DED 4/10s to lowsec won't help. The jump in risk is pretty much vertical when leaving highsec (anything is greater than 0), and in exchange you're only geting a chance at loot, that has a chance of being slightly better than something you'll get in highsec. Move them, and the majority of people that blitz/farm them in highsec won't follow them. Not because they're scared, but just because the risk / reward ratio is no longer in their favour.
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#100 - 2012-05-21 17:40:37 UTC
Roime wrote:
While obviously sandbox solutions are great, there shouldn't be I WIN-buttons in the sandbox. And a T3 against a T1 Arbi is a foolproof win every time.

It isn't ... because you aren't thinking "sandbox" you're thinking "this instance".

When I was a noob in highsec I made quite a bit of money by taking a double-stabbed Stabber (I named it two stabby Mc stabby) into these exploration sites and cloaking.

When a bling Tengu (or whatever) got in the site and started running it, who do you think got the loot from the faction rats?

Hint: It was me.

You just need to adapt. If you can't out-DPS someone then you need to stick a lever in from a different angle and move the problem another way.

I absolutely protest your central notion, because all it would do is tell new players that the only way to get better in EvE is in ships, SP and fittings, and not by getting friends or thinking smarter.

I did it, so can he.