EVE General Discussion

It's still not a starter system, though, and the sites are not meant for newbies just because they are found in highsec.

…and that's why it won't change anything: because the guy with the better equipment and tactics will still have better equipment and tactics, and he still won't be a newbie. By the way, if you're competing against an officer Tengu, you should just shoot him — it'll be worth it.

Again: so what? What you described sounds perfectly reasonable (well, apart from the “exploit” bit since it's not an exploit to bring good equipment and tactics to a competition for a limited resource).

Eh, no. The whole idea of highsec plexes is to give everyone a spot to find smaller/lower-rated frigate and cruiser loot. New players have to compete for this desirable loot on the same premise as everyone else, and since it is as desired as it is, the competition will be fierce. If they're not ready, they're not ready, and that's not a problem. Newbies can make far more ISK far easier through other means if they need to feed a PvP habit. Exploration is about the competition.

What about them? What you did was use a strawman argument: you claimed I said something and then attacked that position without it actually being my position. What I did was go after your position, not one that I had constructed for you.

Good for you. Unfortunately, it's apparently not good enough to do what you want so either you need to rethink that equipment choice or employ different tactics. Focus on getting to the end as quickly as possible and not get hung up on the pointless stuff inbetween. New players can compete with T3s just fine — they just have to be a bit smarter about it and as it happens (here as everywhere else in EVE) just going for “+1 equipment” is actually the worst way of doing things.

…but finding the sites quickly is not. Also, what you're envisioning is exactly why the idea of adding entry keys will do the exact opposite of what you want: it will make SP even more important because it just puts a larger focus on finding the site first and getting the key first, both of which increasingly become a matter of equipment.

Then there is none for you either.

Then you should be able to get to the end very very quickly and reduce your exposure to competitors. Apparently, something isn't working for you in this area.

Oh, and I suggest that you re-read that last thing you quoted: by saying that it's bull, you've now completely reversed your stance and are saying that currently, people with the right tools and tactics aren't getting the prize. Make up your mind and/or learn to read — your choice.

That's cute. You take nearly a hour to scan down an easy site and take so long to do it, that you get interrupted by a ship, that would lose the loot race to almost every other ship that can enter the site. Then you tell me, who has done exploration since I could only fly an imicus, how it really is.



They aren't anyones private playground. T3s are just good ships for the job, since they get bonuses to all relevant aspects of exploration and can enter most sites. They aren't the best ships for the loot race, but they scan down sites fast, can tank them well and have good DPS all in one package. They are the best general purpose exploration ships in the game, so naturally they are popular.

It's highsec. Everything there comes at zero risk. The massive rewards are only a possibility though. That is why I said it was gambling. You may get a drop worth hundreds of millions, but often you get something of medium worth and mostly you don't get anything of value. You have to scan down loads of signatures and often do a multitude of sites, that earn you nothing, before you get something worthwile. I would still consider it in line with the risk vs reward principle, since the highsec loot you get isn't all that great once you get a taste of lowsec or 0.0 drops and the sites there are good income to do even without those drops.



You risk your ship in the same way, that you risk your ship in any other highsec activity. In that you can only die, if you make a mistake or do content beyond your ability. None of us started doing this in T3 ships you know. As I said I started in an imicus with 3 light droned and a laser to draw agro. I didn't expect to be able to compete evenly with experienced explorers in fully pimped ships. I actually did better than I expected, since I learned quickly, that the winner isn't the one who kills the fastest, but the one who is first at the loot can. A T1 frigate flies pretty fast with a MWD and can warp out after stealing the loot, but before the competition has time to kill you.

Lowsec and 0.0 exploration are really different from highsec ones and highsec isn't a new player land. System security only acts as a progression for rewards and site difficulty. They all offer different style of gameplay for different tastes and shouldn't be considered as character progression stages. Highsec is there for all players who want to play in a more relaxed environment and have some limits to aggression. I personally like lowsec and highsec, but for different reasons, while I don't care for 0.0 at all because of bubbles.



It works both ways. CONCORD protects everyone equally, so use it to your advantage. You can't drive them away, but they can't touch you either unless you steal from them. Even then they're unlikely to fit a scrambler and you can likely excape even if they do. All that matters is one thing and one thing only. Who warps away from the site with the loot in his cargobay. I can say, that I don't fear competition from big ships, heavily tanked ships or high DPS ships. I know it's the fast ones, that are trouble, since you're unlikely be at the drop location before them. At best you can be near the loot drop at the same time as them, so you can have an equal chance at grabbing the loot or a slightly better chance, since they might get the warning popup when stealing from you.



It is based on player skill although character skills help in the form of better tank and DPS. You seem to forget though, that every explorer you've met has likely walked your path and gotten better at it with time and experience. When I started, it took me 15 minutes to scan a system with a few easy signatures. I can now clear out several systems from everything interesting within that same timeframe. It all used to take a lot longer, even when I used to fly ships with comparable performance to my current ship. I won sites and lost sites to competition as I still do today, but the number of wins compared to losses has increased drasticly as I have gained more experience as a player about exploration.

You'll find, that even after you've got all the skills and a pimped ship you'll continue to lose most of your contested sites, untill you start fine tuning all aspects of your exploration activity in an effort to winning those occasional races that pop up. You might even start to enjoy them and exchange a few friendly words with the competition.

The simple fact that there is nothing in there that caters specifically to new players (aside from the actual starter systems).

Because he has as much (if not more) problems getting to the nullsec plexes as the new player does, and for much the same reasons: because they're a limited and contested resource that you have to compete for.

It really won't. Better is still better, faster is still faster, more knowledgeable is still more knowledgeable. The newbie will still be a newbie and will still be beaten. It may ever so slightly compact the competition between the oldtimers, but that's not where the supposed problem lies.

Sure there is. It's called 20× Thrasher. It will still be worth it.

Also, your "key" idea is completely stupid as it will have the OPPOSITE effect.

The more skilled players will be able to scan the site faster than you and get to the key first, preventing you from even scavenging the wrecks.

You'll not be in EvE in 3 months time, I can tell you that right now for a fact. No one who is this mad~ about being beaten to a wreck will go very far.

The are two different problems.

1. Concord - believe if it weren't for it they wouldnt be flying those dead space fitted Tungus so bravely.
2. Hi sec payouts are to lucrative.

It was you who first intiated the whole business about fittings and skills and construed that SP was a matter of "skill" because as you put it "…and chances are that those who get to the end first have a good combination of both. They're not wasting their time on the unnecessary stuff and are keeping their eyes on the goal"

So much for that.

Good for you. Unfortunately, it's apparently not good enough to do what you want so either you need to rethink that equipment choice or employ different tactics. Focus on getting to the end as quickly as possible and not get hung up on the pointless stuff inbetween. New players can compete with T3s just fine — they just have to be a bit smarter about it and as it happens (here as everywhere else in EVE) just going for “+1 equipment” is actually the worst way of doing things.[/quote]

All this ofcourse neatly circles around my original point, having found the site and HAVING worked my way through it - here comes a guy in a T3 to happliy take away the loot I was working towards because while I had to risk my t1 ship with newbie skils, he storms in with the latest and greatest and denies me even a chance at a pittance of reward given the amount of money he is already worth.



Completely irrelevant. I am not asking to make sites easier to find, I am asking that once found and approached and once begun, the player atleast should be given the oppurtunity to complete it without some 30 mill SP carebear barging through knowing full well he will blitz through and nothing I could do will stop him.



Rubbish. I have been warp scrambed and jammed, and it takes time to take down the elite rats, I saw the damn tengu brun away the exact same rats in a matter of seconds. I was in danger of losing my ship he wasnt.



Please. I ran all the way between forge and citadel looking for sites.. every SINGLE DED complex was squatted in by peeps in t2 frigs, interdictors and ofcourse the DED3 plex - T3s. Looking for explo sites and having found them only to be denied the CHANCE of completetion because some jackass can simply swoop in without a care in the world is exactly the opposite of Risk =- Rewards.

Oh, and I suggest that you re-read that last thing you quoted: by saying that it's bull, you've now completely reversed your stance and are saying that currently, people with the right tools and tactics aren't getting the prize. Make up your mind and/or learn to read — your choice.

I am sorry? Werent you the one who lorded about "skilled" players knowing about fitting, etc? werent you the one who claimed "skilled" players are not distracted in their focus...P.U

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Slow clap. Good to know that so many carebears are concerned about access to 1-3/10 sites - probably because thats all they ever do.

This game is not for you.