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AFK Cloaking in System is a Terrible Mechanic

Author
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-05-20 12:38:25 UTC
Aemonchichi wrote:
get rid of local so u dont have to see all these afk cloaking terrors


Generally, WHers act as if there is someone AFK cloaked in their system all the time, hence the fear of AFK cloakers is a psychological side-effect of local, not a mechanic to be changed.
Alara IonStorm
#42 - 2012-05-20 12:41:49 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Aemonchichi wrote:
get rid of local so u dont have to see all these afk cloaking terrors


Generally, WHers act as if there is someone AFK cloaked in their system all the time, hence the fear of AFK cloakers is a psychological side-effect of local, not a mechanic to be changed.

Wormholes have extremely low population compared t the rest of the game and who your neighbors are changes constantly.

Their is no real comparison to be made to Null Sec.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-05-20 12:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Tippia wrote:
The best solution so far remains the idea that cloaking removes you from local, in both senses: you cannot be seen in the local user list, and you cannot see the local user list. If you want to do something non-AFK, you will have to expose yourself and/or spend a lot of time finding absolutely nothing.


I'll disagree with you on this.

What you're suggesting here only serves to indicate whether a person is a threat, by their presence on local or not a threat, by their lack of presence on local. The only function of such a mechanic is to remove the terror that AFK cloaking is presently without adding any risk or perceived threat to the environment. Effectively, it's a buff to the locals and a nerf for everyone else.

With what HS is going through right now while CCP sits on the sidelines laughing at everyone involved, I'd be highly disappointed if they did as you suggested, effectively reducing risk in the environment from which so many HTFU's are coming.

Don't ban me, bro!

Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-05-20 12:58:53 UTC
I like to cloak in systems where I can't dock to take a crap sometimes. Please don't prevent me from taking craps.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-05-20 13:11:05 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
What you're suggesting here only serves to indicate whether a person is a threat, by their presence on local or not a threat, by their lack of presence on local.
No. You can be present in local and not be a threat, and you can be absent from local and still be a threat. It means cloaking your ship actually cloaks your ship, and that this is a double-blind (or, not entirely… one-and-three-quarters-blind maybe) state. If you want to find a target for your bombing run, you have to manually warp around (and risk being uncloaked) or use probes (and be spotted on dscan). Yes, you can still use dscan to look for people, but there's a limit to what you can do with that information and what it actually includes.

It increases the stakes on both sides of the fence: people can no longer tell whether a cloaker is in the system (AFK or not — it doesn't matter), but a cloaker can also no longer tell that there are any targets in the system… or whether they have backup. It provides buffs and nerfs to both sides: the psychological warfare of just being there is gone — you have to actually prove that you're active for it to work, but baiting any such potential attackers is also much easier.

The psychological factor having an unknown neut/red in local is replaced (on both sides) by the psychological factor of inherently being unable to determine whether anyone is watching or not…
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-05-20 13:14:34 UTC
Hiding cloakers from local just turns cloaks into EZ-mode logon traps.
greeny knight
Solar Storm
#47 - 2012-05-20 13:37:03 UTC
wel the discution is years old and i'm 8 years old most in nullsec and i'm a damn good cov op pilot and they need to fix this afk cloacking s******.

if you are a miner and you have a nice system you always mine 1 afk cloacker can ruing your game , in inferno ccp claims to have a counterfit to every fit in game , wel here is some news they don't that afk cloacking is broken and gives alot of people alot of greef , here are some viable selutions that can solve this problem in the gamespirrit of eve .



sugestion 1

as the covop mod is active its a invisable bubble that cant get the gasses out and need to be vented every 10 min so it decloacks for a set timer say 30 sec , if the cloack button is not prest it stays uncloacked

suggestion 2 (my favorite)

create a ghosthunter specialized to hunt cloackies no offencive weapons filled to the eyeballs with electronica to spot them and decloack them prob verry fragile not cloackable basicly a flying coffin when the cloacky is not afk

suggestion 3 (also my fav )

we still have the deep space probes thea are basicly useless now , convert them to ghost hunter probes that can launched from a cov op or a specialized ship to reviel cloackies
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-05-20 13:51:00 UTC
To be honest I like AFK cloaking it allows me to have s3x while still messing with your mind even while I'm not physically present at my computer... Win/Win situation...

Also..

pic of me doing the above...
Spurty
#49 - 2012-05-20 13:53:10 UTC
Middle ground:

Force "constellation" chat (you can not close it), delete local.

You know there's reds about, but not which system.

Promotes roaming your constellations, scouting and generally undocking eyes.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Katja Faith
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-05-20 13:55:16 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sub Warfare is 100 times more fun. ! mean the cloaking mechanic is so boring that people are literally leaving their computer screens rather playing which right their says it all.


What??? That doesn't even make sense... Again.
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-05-20 13:56:00 UTC
greeny knight wrote:
wel the discution is years old and i'm 8 years old most in nullsec and i'm a damn good cov op pilot and they need to fix this afk cloacking s******.

if you are a miner and you have a nice system you always mine 1 afk cloacker can ruing your game , in inferno ccp claims to have a counterfit to every fit in game , wel here is some news they don't that afk cloacking is broken and gives alot of people alot of greef , here are some viable selutions that can solve this problem in the gamespirrit of eve .



sugestion 1

as the covop mod is active its a invisable bubble that cant get the gasses out and need to be vented every 10 min so it decloacks for a set timer say 30 sec , if the cloack button is not prest it stays uncloacked

suggestion 2 (my favorite)

create a ghosthunter specialized to hunt cloackies no offencive weapons filled to the eyeballs with electronica to spot them and decloack them prob verry fragile not cloackable basicly a flying coffin when the cloacky is not afk

suggestion 3 (also my fav )

we still have the deep space probes thea are basicly useless now , convert them to ghost hunter probes that can launched from a cov op or a specialized ship to reviel cloackies

Any serious nerf to cloakyfags is a buff to nullsec bots, or, as in the case of removing them from local, turns them into easy login traps.

Fix bots, and after that you can worry about fixing AFK cloaking.
greeny knight
Solar Storm
#52 - 2012-05-20 13:57:04 UTC
deleting local from null sec is a old non vioble thing because every nullsecminer will com to a system near jita in highsec and only gankers will rule null sec now we have a chanse to escape or kill them
Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2012-05-20 14:11:25 UTC
Katja Faith wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sub Warfare is 100 times more fun. ! mean the cloaking mechanic is so boring that people are literally leaving their computer screens rather playing which right their says it all.

What??? That doesn't even make sense... Again.

Sure it does. Subs being like Cloak Ships evading sub hunting parties like Destroyers Screens in WWII?

Also poeple are going AFK because their is no opposition to hunt them. They would stick around and evade the enemy if their was an enemy that could track them.

What part tripped you up?
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-05-20 14:32:28 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Katja Faith wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sub Warfare is 100 times more fun. ! mean the cloaking mechanic is so boring that people are literally leaving their computer screens rather playing which right their says it all.

What??? That doesn't even make sense... Again.

Sure it does. Subs being like Cloak Ships evading sub hunting parties like Destroyers Screens in WWII?

Also poeple are going AFK because their is no opposition to hunt them. They would stick around and evade the enemy if their was an enemy that could track them.

What part tripped you up?

This solution would make cloaks more fun... but still helps bots too much, imo.
Eso Es
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-05-20 14:40:52 UTC
Romar Agent wrote:
AFK cloakers schould only be a problem to groups who cannot organize a defensive patrol.

Combat ships shouldn't worry, non combat ships can be escorted or watched over.

Instead of freezing, implement some rules on how to do anything you normally do under stealth contact.


A lot of people here seem to be missing the point. An "afk" cloaker can at any point, set up a hotdrop on said combat ships. This includes lighting a cynobeacon while still cloaked at which point the "1 puny cloaker" turns into an army of reds and pops all your stuff. The fact that there is NOTHING a player can do to counter this threat, other than just leave system, is really bad. It is non-interactive and unfun. Discuss now that you are all enlightened to the danger this poses.
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-05-20 14:44:42 UTC
Eso Es wrote:
This includes lighting a cynobeacon while still cloaked

Wrong.
Alara IonStorm
#57 - 2012-05-20 14:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Dawn Flare wrote:

This solution would make cloaks more fun... but still helps bots too much, imo.

My full opinion on the matter is:


  • Make Cloaking not effected by D-Scan but not reveal ship type.
  • Improve D-Scan Controls / Make it Automated and Information Display and maybe shorten its range.
  • Remove Local.
  • Add a T2 Destroyer designed to Scan Cloaked Ships 120 seconds after the Gate Cloak wears off.
  • Remove speed penalty for Prototype and Improved Cloak and tweak Black Ops bonus to suit.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#58 - 2012-05-20 14:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Did they mention any technical difficulties with modifying local chat? I'm also of the opinion that cloaking is okay as-is, and local is what really needs to be fixed (for this and other reasons - in particular it's just bad form to have a key intel source be a side-effect of the chat implementation).

But there has been talking about modifying local for so long without anything happening, I wonder if they've painted themselves into a coding corner there as well.


I don't remember exactly anymore, but I thinks the CSM agrees the Local channel provides too much intel and that CCP feels a bit the same way as well. They talked a bit about delayed local while under gatecloak, being able to run a quick scan for potential targets, but nothing about technical difficulties I think.

I think the biggest problem that's holding back CCP's hand in this though, is the fact that messing with local for null can massively disrupt its community. Because while null-PvP pilots may talk big words about removing local for a more target-rich environment, many of them are just big carebears hiding in the mob, pretending to be wolves and conveniently forgetting that this will have consequences for them personally as well.

CCP probably isn't to keen on having a local-nerf following by an public outcry to boost null-income a few months later. Just look at all the whining about afk-cloakers, showcasing the carebears that secretly make up a large part of null. Roll

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-05-20 14:59:56 UTC
Eso Es wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I like cloaking, I like ganking in WHs, I like breaking gate camps, but to be able to sit afk in someones system cloaked FOR DAYS with no repercussions is just unacceptable. Make cloakers susceptible to combat probes, or really, just do SOMETHING to limit the un-interactiveness of cloak, its a fail mechanic as is. Let the flames begin ^^



If he's afk he can't harm you.

brb

Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-05-20 15:01:05 UTC
Remove local, afk cloaking problem solved. See how easy that was?