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How to get carebears to WANT to PvP!
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Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-05-20 14:47:07 UTC
Roime wrote:
Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?

What's the point?



Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not.

The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec?
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-05-20 14:49:58 UTC
WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????

Get lives people....................

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Captain Catchup
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-05-20 15:19:23 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Captain Catchup wrote:
It may have been mentioned in a previous post but i dont have the energy or care to read responses to the same 25 people who spam this forum multiple times daily.

its SIMPLE - remove killrights. believe it or not that "carebear" wants to pvp some of the time, he just doesnt want to pvp 24/7. people want to pvp and go back to doing what they were doing without getting jumped while in their money maker (stabbed in the back), whether its a 2 bill isk mission boat or a hulk etc...

so all these threads about trying to get "carebears" to pvp is useless, the ones who dont want to pvp wont and the ones that do dont want to sign up for 30 days of it they want to go pvp have fun and go back to what they are doing. GET RID OF KILLRIGHTS and watch what happens....

so what you end up with is a bunch of players waiting years before they are ready because they feel once they start they have to continue (just one more skill and im ready..... sound famaliar?)

im a 4 year long carebear player that has wanted to pvp all along, and has only trained combat skills and im telling you WHY i dont pvp yet and this is the only reason, get real - noone cares about losing a goddamn ship that only took 20 minutes to earn its risking the 5 bill ship from killrights from pvping in the cheap one. Roll


Almost nobody ever makes use of their killrights, just ask around the ganker community for confirmation. In the all years that killrights have existed I can scarcely remember any victims that got 'even' using their killrights.

Just because it holds you personally back from misbehavin', doesn't mean it's THE issue keeping carebears from PvP. Far from it in fact.

Personally I think the main issue is with carebears simply playing the game differently, measuring progression by wealth and possessions, where PvP-oriented players measure it more by their victories. And just like you said it yourself, not wanting to risk you 2B isk mission boat, that's exactly what's keeping carebears from PvP.

Carebears will never willingly jeopardize large chunks of their 'progression' (in the same way some of the more pathetic PvP-players don't want to jeopardize their KB-ratio and will ***** even on teamkills).


-almost nobody means somebody which was my point, im not a ganker nor do i wish to gank so comparing a ganker shooting a unarmed or unsuspecting target to someone who just wants to pvp and not get shot in the back when hes not pvping was antother point i was tryin to make.

pvping when i want to pvp is what i want not "misbehavin" or ganking with no consequences, im a carebear and dont care how much "wealth" i got if i can never have fun with it without being penalized in many differnt ways. Losing ship and pod is enough.. I know theres alot of pvpers also that only care about their KB and im also not one of those either.

so i guess my lack of education is preventing me from explaining why ALOT not all of people who wish to pvp dont
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#84 - 2012-05-20 15:20:32 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
Roime wrote:
Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?

What's the point?



Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not.

The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec?

Because this is a sand box, conflict driven MMO. All aspects of the game are intertwined, risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.

There is a term for the way in which this effects MMOs, the term is called mudflation. Without sufficient isk sinks or ship destruction rampant monetary inflation occurs, similarly "rare" items become increasingly common until the game is saturated.

At this point most games die, and in Eve the beginnings of mudflation are already being seen in the rampant super capital and titan proliferation. Similarly pirate BS, t2 command ships, t3s and standard capitals are becoming more and more commonplace.

CCP have begun to address this issue with the recent drone region changes, we can hope only that they succeed.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#85 - 2012-05-20 15:27:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:


The only problem with them is the insane amount of isk the mission running/highsec incursion fraction of them is spilling into the economy without them actually needing any isk - they don't need to replace any ships after all.


L4 missions rewards now are fine.

You can eve-search how I spent months if not years on the missions forums proving with other 2 guys how L4 missions needed to be nerfed. Since then they have been nerfed 3-4 times both as loot (multiple times) and bounties (recently).

Now what remains is simple: the fact that there's not much risk doing them.
Therefore any amount of ISK - nerfed or not - does not leave the economy.


The fun thing is that what's wrong now is not hi sec L4 missions any more but sov 0.0 content.

People don't move alts to hi sec because L4s are still godlike. Nope. They move them to hi sec because the 0.0 rewards are way too low.

Why are 0.0 rewards too low? Because in 0.0 you can grind red crosses with massively powerful ships AND in nearly absolute safety. This pushed CCP into nerfing 0.0 PvE again and again. And this means those in 0.0 who do not have the same opportunities got over-nerfed in their income as result (they call this phenomenon "horizontal cuts" here, the same identical taxes hitting everybody indiscriminately and thus penalizing the poor).

Basically 0.0 rewards need to be boosted back again but to be denied to supercaps and other mass grinding machines.


Simi Kusoni wrote:

Ahh of course, the human miners must perform some sort of complex ritualistic dance in their hulks whilst waiting for their miners to cycle.

I knew there was something I was supposed to have been looking for, if only I'd taken the time to learn my prey.


No, they do other stuff in game while the Hulk does its thing. Depending on the situations some chat for hours, others race for the most efficient corp operation (this makes mining quite active), others hunt suspicious guys with their PvP character (often their Hulk is baity and overtanked)... there are 1000 situations not just 1.

Sorry but that is not a way to distinguish a human miner from a bot, because those actions cannot be seen by the ganker because it is occurring in a different account or in corp chat. From a gankers perspective the actions of the bot and human are near identical.

As for your commets on 0.0 income, I agree. Null sec should be buffed, and also made more dangerous. CCP have been promising to replace local with an Intel tool for years, they should just HTFU and do it.

I do disagree with your supercap thing though. Pre nerf titans were sanctum gods, but outside of the revenant a super capital can be outperformed by a vindicator or machariel. I haven't seen a titan run sanctums since the nerf, but I presume they suck.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-05-20 15:28:57 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.



All correct but for this part. That's Botting in High Sec, etc......

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#87 - 2012-05-20 15:30:44 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????

Get lives people....................



Y U mad bro?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#88 - 2012-05-20 15:39:37 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.



All correct but for this part. That's Botting in High Sec, etc......

Well botting is just as bad wherever it occurs, whether its high sec, null sec or wormholes. But human players can very easily have a deterious effect on the market that is equal to that of bots if mechanics are not kept in check to prevent it.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-05-20 15:59:41 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:

Well botting is just as bad wherever it occurs, whether its high sec, null sec or wormholes. But human players can very easily have a deterious effect on the market that is equal to that of bots if mechanics are not kept in check to prevent it.



It's either that or Null is so predictable, they set up operation in High. If CCP were serious about this they would make Null worth fighting over again. But no. They have just the one OTEC Blob now......sigh.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#90 - 2012-05-20 16:07:03 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

Well botting is just as bad wherever it occurs, whether its high sec, null sec or wormholes. But human players can very easily have a deterious effect on the market that is equal to that of bots if mechanics are not kept in check to prevent it.



It's either that or Null is so predictable, they set up operation in High. If CCP were serious about this they would make Null worth fighting over again. But no. They have just the one OTEC Blob now......sigh.

Meh, CCP just need to do something with local. Its a pretty delicate situation though, so I can understand why they'd be reticent to change anything.

Plus I get the impression that the management at CCP are still hypnotised by the character distribution statistics, and may be underestimating just how many of those in high sec are alts or only there temporarily.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#91 - 2012-05-20 17:41:12 UTC
Romar Agent wrote:
Roime wrote:
Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?

What's the point?


I can only speak for myself.

I'm playing EVE, because it's a spaceship game, on top of that one with amazing graphics and great mechanics. Even more so I'm playing EVE, because it's Elite, erm - 4.

I wouldn't have a chance to reexperience Elite in that quality with another game.

That's disconnected from the fact that EVE is an MMO. EVE being an MMO is natural as MMOs are the hype these days.

It doesn't negate the fact that EVE is also a spaceship game.

So two characteristics:

1. Genre: Spaceship game connected to the Elite series. Draws SciFi-fans as well as nostalgic players of the latter.

2. Game type: MMO. Draws players who want to connect to others, and/or to compete with others.

So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs.


Those are all good reasons to play EVE, but I feel that it didn't exactly answer my question- why only deal with AI in a virtual universe full of real players?

Humans create interesting content, provide endless challenges. I enjoy the sensations of victory and defeat, and CPU, a piece of silicon, is unable to give me those.

Kara Vix wrote:

Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not.

The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec?


Like mentioned many times before, it doesn't effect anyone, until you come to the forums and start crying mommy. I'm merely interested in the mindset I can't fully understand. Can you tell what aspects of PVP make you choose PVE over it?

The only problem currently is that some people who run L4s and whatever it is that hisec whiners do want to force CCP to change the sandbox. I believe the source of this problem is that missions are not connected with the rest of the sandbox, and players who engage in them fail to understand the nature of EVE.





.
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-05-20 17:44:48 UTC
PvP is all about the ISK, nothing more. Have enough coming in to replace losses (usually via an alt) and you're good to pew pew untill your fingertips bleed.
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol
#93 - 2012-05-20 17:55:54 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????

Get lives people....................


If there's one thing I've learned in my 30 years on this planet, it's that almost everyone has an opinion on how everyone else should live. Real life or game makes no difference in this regard.

The simple facts of human interaction:

  • The stuff that I do is always better than the stuff that you do.
  • I should be allowed to do my stuff, for any reason I can think of.
  • You shouldn't be allowed to do the stuff you like to do, for of any reason I can think of.
  • I tend to hang out with people that agree with me so I don't have to learn about you.
  • I really only want to hear myself speak, but I will pretend to be interested in your opinion so you will listen to me.


Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-05-20 18:07:38 UTC
Aron Croup wrote:
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????

Get lives people....................


If there's one thing I've learned in my 30 years on this planet, it's that almost everyone has an opinion on how everyone else should live. Real life or game makes no difference in this regard.

The simple facts of human interaction in EVE ONLINE Exclusively:



Great list, but the title as altered above is a bit more accurate in my 47 years on this planet. P

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-05-20 18:23:23 UTC
Roime wrote:
Romar Agent wrote:
...
So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs.


Those are all good reasons to play EVE, but I feel that it didn't exactly answer my question- why only deal with AI in a virtual universe full of real players?

Humans create interesting content, provide endless challenges. I enjoy the sensations of victory and defeat, and CPU, a piece of silicon, is unable to give me those.
Certainly.

I personally play for storylines. In this case storylines embedded into the background of the four large empires. A storyline of slow progression and character development (it could be called grinding standing, but that's maybe half of it).

I do know many people play for challenges, play to feel a rush of adrenaline or to win.

That's not what drives me, I do not play for challenges.

Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-05-20 18:31:07 UTC
Romar Agent wrote:
Certainly.

I personally play for storylines. In this case storylines embedded into the background of the four large empires. A storyline of slow progression and character development (it could be called grinding standing, but that's maybe half of it).

I do know many people play for challenges, play to feel a rush of adrenaline or to win.

That's not what drives me, I do not play for challenges.

Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime.

EVE has about as much depth into its backround as a tea saucer containing water. Want to jump in? Watch your head
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-05-20 18:32:03 UTC
Romar Agent wrote:


Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime.


Then get out while you still can. Apparently there is no room for Casual Players anymore, and as much has been made quite clear (the Dev in the latest Inferno vid proclaiming excitedly about "Moar Miner tears"...basically we are screwed even from a Dev standpoint).

So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was.........

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-05-20 18:39:24 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
EVE has about as much depth into its backround as a tea saucer containing water. Want to jump in? Watch your head

That's why I'm basically creating my content myself (MMOs next to killed classic pen&paper roleplaying around here, only fair that I use them for my pastime).

Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
Then get out while you still can. Apparently there is no room for Casual Players anymore, and as much has been made quite clear (the Dev in the latest Inferno vid proclaiming excitedly about "Moar Miner tears"...basically we are screwed even from a Dev standpoint).

So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was.........

Let them come Blink I do not believe CCP wants to get rid of the casual gamers' subscriptions.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-05-20 18:41:28 UTC
Romar Agent wrote:


Fabulousli Obvious wrote:


So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was.........

Let them come Blink I do not believe CCP wants to get rid of the casual gamers' subscriptions.


I didn't either. But with the last few months, Obvious is Obvious.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#100 - 2012-05-20 18:52:10 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
Romar Agent wrote:


Fabulousli Obvious wrote:


So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was.........

Let them come Blink I do not believe CCP wants to get rid of the casual gamers' subscriptions.


I didn't either. But with the last few months, Obvious is Obvious.

Aye, the poor "casual" AFK high sec miner who only has his six bots hulk pilots online for eight or more hours a day.

However will he survive?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]