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CSM helping to drive CCP profits up and therefore improve the game.
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Roldanus
Black Anvil Industries
#1 - 2012-05-20 01:10:17 UTC
CSM,

Im sure you are also concerned about CCP keeping sustainable and not having this beautiful game disappear.
There are certain moves that could potentially undermine EVE continuity and you know them by heart, but I believe also that you have to spend some time thinking about how to make EVE Revenues go up.

I´ve been part of some innovation forums in RL and Im sure that you have a tough task reviewing all the posts in the Assambly Hall to materialize colorful and meaningful things for EVE Community.

My 5 cents.

Agree with CCP that some of the enhancements requested by players will placed in polls and then request a small contribution from players (real currency) to fund the project.

Changes or Improvements = Developers time = Costs

Lets not be naive and think that the big community of ISK buying PLEX pilots will keep the ball rolling. Providing a player base to keep the game alive is just not enough, that won't pay for the servers or the developers.

Keep it civilized.

Rolds
Roldanus
Black Anvil Industries
#2 - 2012-05-20 01:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Roldanus
Everyone should be paying game with real money and not ISK paid PLEX....that helps to provide a big player base but might undermine EVE sustainability in the long run.

Keep that in mind.

I personally decided to pay for 4 accounts.
Using my ISK generation to help some new players step up and don't drop the game.

CSM, there is a quite big community doing this, and be sure that this is not coming from pvpeers, industrialist.
Industrialists also help the game...not only pvpeers fueling markets with new ship purchases.

Have you ever wondered who are the ones paying the accounts? Im sure CCP knows that profile.

Rolds
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3 - 2012-05-20 17:47:53 UTC
You do know that PLEX must be bought by someone? And it costs more than a regular sub amount.

So, CCP makes more money if people buy PLEX. Just a bit.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-20 18:25:10 UTC
Is this guy for real or is he high on space crack?

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sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-05-20 18:32:39 UTC
Agreed, Sov fees should be paid for in cash.Big smile
Di Mulle
#6 - 2012-05-20 23:07:43 UTC
Roldanus wrote:
CSM,

Providing a player base to keep the game alive is just not enough, that won't pay for the servers or the developers.



I wonder where the money is going then ? Not for servers, not for developers - whats left, advertising ??
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Lady Flute
Ilmarinen Group
#7 - 2012-05-21 00:04:43 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
You do know that PLEX must be bought by someone? And it costs more than a regular sub amount.

So, CCP makes more money if people buy PLEX. Just a bit.


No, it ~was~ bought by someone. But it must be used at a greater rate than it is bought, or it simply becomes a debt around CCP's neck.

The OP is correct: PLEX does not pay the bills. CCP gets money when PLEX enters the game due to someone buying it. But that is not the only way: you can get 10 free simply by working the friends invite system. That is happening in the newbie help channel, and while I am sure CCP are not happy about it, there is little they can do. Every free PLEX they give away is yet more future revenue lost to them.

The NEX store was intended to help reduce the amount of PLEX in the game, so too the character transfer payment with PLEX.

The bottom line is that it is new / returning players who buy PLEX to use on thier characters, ships and skills. Veterans who are half decent can easily make the ISK to buy PLEX in-game and use it, should they choose to. But hulkageddon and other anti-new-player anti-carebear-playstyles have been driving new people away from the game.

Simple case in point: a friend finally got a covetor. Her husband helped set it all up, they went out to mine together in a safe highsec system. No warning indicators of gankers, no nearby lowsec, no war decs, no problem, right? Wrong, she was suicide ganked the first night out. I have not seen her mine with her husband in-game since. Do you think that couple, who love sci-fi games and are fairly new to EVE, will stay if she cannot enjoy quietly mining with her husband here? If she goes, he will follow, like many thousands of players before them. Like some of my other friends, who cancelled out of EVE to play TERA - why? He loved EVE, she didn't, but he loved her far more than EVE, so together they chose a game they both enjoyed.

Face facts boys and girls: this game is only as strong as its carebears, erm, social orientated players. They really do pay the bills. And yes, I did spend more on my clothing when I returned than on ships ... did you?
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#8 - 2012-05-21 00:34:46 UTC
Lady Flute wrote:
The OP is correct: PLEX does not pay the bills. CCP gets money when PLEX enters the game due to someone buying it. But that is not the only way: you can get 10 free simply by working the friends invite system. That is happening in the newbie help channel, and while I am sure CCP are not happy about it, there is little they can do. Every free PLEX they give away is yet more future revenue lost to them.


Except that they merely provide 1 PLEX as an incentive to bring in more paying customers, even if those new accounts use PLEX, that increases demand meaning that those purchasing GTC's or PLEX from CCP have a larger market and are thus increasing future revenue. so you're working on a false premise there.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-21 08:01:52 UTC
Roldanus wrote:
Everyone should be paying game with real money and not ISK paid PLEX....that helps to provide a big player base but might undermine EVE sustainability in the long run.

Keep that in mind.

I personally decided to pay for 4 accounts.
Using my ISK generation to help some new players step up and don't drop the game.

CSM, there is a quite big community doing this, and be sure that this is not coming from pvpeers, industrialist.
Industrialists also help the game...not only pvpeers fueling markets with new ship purchases.

Have you ever wondered who are the ones paying the accounts? Im sure CCP knows that profile.

Rolds



I dont think you understand how PLEX works mate. Go look it up then come back. Im not trolling.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-05-21 08:08:34 UTC
Lady Flute wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You do know that PLEX must be bought by someone? And it costs more than a regular sub amount.

So, CCP makes more money if people buy PLEX. Just a bit.


No, it ~was~ bought by someone. But it must be used at a greater rate than it is bought, or it simply becomes a debt around CCP's neck.

The OP is correct: PLEX does not pay the bills. CCP gets money when PLEX enters the game due to someone buying it. But that is not the only way: you can get 10 free simply by working the friends invite system. That is happening in the newbie help channel, and while I am sure CCP are not happy about it, there is little they can do. Every free PLEX they give away is yet more future revenue lost to them.

The NEX store was intended to help reduce the amount of PLEX in the game, so too the character transfer payment with PLEX.

The bottom line is that it is new / returning players who buy PLEX to use on thier characters, ships and skills. Veterans who are half decent can easily make the ISK to buy PLEX in-game and use it, should they choose to. But hulkageddon and other anti-new-player anti-carebear-playstyles have been driving new people away from the game.

Simple case in point: a friend finally got a covetor. Her husband helped set it all up, they went out to mine together in a safe highsec system. No warning indicators of gankers, no nearby lowsec, no war decs, no problem, right? Wrong, she was suicide ganked the first night out. I have not seen her mine with her husband in-game since. Do you think that couple, who love sci-fi games and are fairly new to EVE, will stay if she cannot enjoy quietly mining with her husband here? If she goes, he will follow, like many thousands of players before them. Like some of my other friends, who cancelled out of EVE to play TERA - why? He loved EVE, she didn't, but he loved her far more than EVE, so together they chose a game they both enjoyed.

Face facts boys and girls: this game is only as strong as its carebears, erm, social orientated players. They really do pay the bills. And yes, I did spend more on my clothing when I returned than on ships ... did you?



I am not really going to believe you. Anecdotal evidence is jus tthat. In Eve, very few non Exhumers/Barges get ganked, no one ganks mining frigates or cruisers and that is what she would haev been flying.
PLEX: They are paid for as soon as they are created, so CCP has the money early. Early money is invested = interest.
Get a PLEX for buddy system? That PLEX is only delivered when teh new guy pays for his account, not before. So the 'free' plex does exist but only if CCP get a paying customer, mayb ethey will stay, maybe they wont. Some will = profit.

Gankings do make people quit, that is a fact. But these people would have quit at some point anyway because that is what Eve is. Risk averse people dont want to play a game like Eve, and Eve needs to stay as it is because if it wasnt the harsh place it is, other people would leave. It is a niche game, it always will be and as long as CCP are making enough money then it will be safe. Coming up to 10 years.. If it was going to fail, I think it would have by now.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-05-22 07:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Brisco County
Lady Flute wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You do know that PLEX must be bought by someone? And it costs more than a regular sub amount.

So, CCP makes more money if people buy PLEX. Just a bit.


No, it ~was~ bought by someone. But it must be used at a greater rate than it is bought, or it simply becomes a debt around CCP's neck.

The OP is correct: PLEX does not pay the bills. CCP gets money when PLEX enters the game due to someone buying it. But that is not the only way: you can get 10 free simply by working the friends invite system. That is happening in the newbie help channel, and while I am sure CCP are not happy about it, there is little they can do. Every free PLEX they give away is yet more future revenue lost to them.

The NEX store was intended to help reduce the amount of PLEX in the game, so too the character transfer payment with PLEX.

The bottom line is that it is new / returning players who buy PLEX to use on thier characters, ships and skills. Veterans who are half decent can easily make the ISK to buy PLEX in-game and use it, should they choose to. But hulkageddon and other anti-new-player anti-carebear-playstyles have been driving new people away from the game.

Simple case in point: a friend finally got a covetor. Her husband helped set it all up, they went out to mine together in a safe highsec system. No warning indicators of gankers, no nearby lowsec, no war decs, no problem, right? Wrong, she was suicide ganked the first night out. I have not seen her mine with her husband in-game since. Do you think that couple, who love sci-fi games and are fairly new to EVE, will stay if she cannot enjoy quietly mining with her husband here? If she goes, he will follow, like many thousands of players before them. Like some of my other friends, who cancelled out of EVE to play TERA - why? He loved EVE, she didn't, but he loved her far more than EVE, so together they chose a game they both enjoyed.

Face facts boys and girls: this game is only as strong as its carebears, erm, social orientated players. They really do pay the bills. And yes, I did spend more on my clothing when I returned than on ships ... did you?


Oh hey, look, another carebear trying to threaten CCP with the "Hulkageddon is costing you money!" argument. I can play that game, too. I have paid over a decade's worth of subscription fees, and I would cancel both of my accounts if CCP tries to stop Hulkageddon again (ie, more nerfs to suicide ganking).

Honestly, if you want farmville in space, then go play something else. We have something special here, and just because it doesn't appeal to EVERYONE doesn't mean it should be changed until it does for the sake of increasing sales. CCP isn't this faceless corporation that sees nothing but the bottom line (aka Blizzard).
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-05-22 14:09:42 UTC
Brisco County wrote:
Lady Flute wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You do know that PLEX must be bought by someone? And it costs more than a regular sub amount.

So, CCP makes more money if people buy PLEX. Just a bit.


No, it ~was~ bought by someone. But it must be used at a greater rate than it is bought, or it simply becomes a debt around CCP's neck.

The OP is correct: PLEX does not pay the bills. CCP gets money when PLEX enters the game due to someone buying it. But that is not the only way: you can get 10 free simply by working the friends invite system. That is happening in the newbie help channel, and while I am sure CCP are not happy about it, there is little they can do. Every free PLEX they give away is yet more future revenue lost to them.

The NEX store was intended to help reduce the amount of PLEX in the game, so too the character transfer payment with PLEX.

The bottom line is that it is new / returning players who buy PLEX to use on thier characters, ships and skills. Veterans who are half decent can easily make the ISK to buy PLEX in-game and use it, should they choose to. But hulkageddon and other anti-new-player anti-carebear-playstyles have been driving new people away from the game.

Simple case in point: a friend finally got a covetor. Her husband helped set it all up, they went out to mine together in a safe highsec system. No warning indicators of gankers, no nearby lowsec, no war decs, no problem, right? Wrong, she was suicide ganked the first night out. I have not seen her mine with her husband in-game since. Do you think that couple, who love sci-fi games and are fairly new to EVE, will stay if she cannot enjoy quietly mining with her husband here? If she goes, he will follow, like many thousands of players before them. Like some of my other friends, who cancelled out of EVE to play TERA - why? He loved EVE, she didn't, but he loved her far more than EVE, so together they chose a game they both enjoyed.

Face facts boys and girls: this game is only as strong as its carebears, erm, social orientated players. They really do pay the bills. And yes, I did spend more on my clothing when I returned than on ships ... did you?


Oh hey, look, another carebear trying to threaten CCP with the "Hulkageddon is costing you money!" argument. I can play that game, too. I have paid over a decade's worth of subscription fees, and I would cancel both of my accounts if CCP tries to stop Hulkageddon again (ie, more nerfs to suicide ganking).

Honestly, if you want farmville in space, then go play something else. We have something special here, and just because it doesn't appeal to EVERYONE doesn't mean it should be changed until it does for the sake of increasing sales. CCP isn't this faceless corporation that sees nothing but the bottom line (aka Blizzard).


Pretty much this.... but then anything lady flute says these days if screaming bittercarebeartroll as it is.

You want carebearing? Go play Hello Kitty Online.

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Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-05-22 14:26:43 UTC
Really would like to know how Plex is a debt around CCP's neck. If there is plex sitting in game CCP shouldnt care considering the cash used to put that plex in game is now in their pockets...

Can I get some of whatever your smoking please!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-05-22 15:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
Temmu Guerra wrote:
Really would like to know how Plex is a debt around CCP's neck. If there is plex sitting in game CCP shouldnt care considering the cash used to put that plex in game is now in their pockets...

Can I get some of whatever your smoking please!



I think hes talking about PLex game time as liability , the service is already paid for and yet to be redeemed.

however, someone also hasnt read the EULA very closely. CCP can discontinue their service in total or partially without warning for any reason.

Its listed in the liabilities but it has a clause for pure profit.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the OP is also wrong about how PLEX are introduced to the game. and what sort of effect they have on CCP finances.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-22 16:07:30 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Temmu Guerra wrote:
Really would like to know how Plex is a debt around CCP's neck. If there is plex sitting in game CCP shouldnt care considering the cash used to put that plex in game is now in their pockets...

Can I get some of whatever your smoking please!



I think hes talking about PLex game time as liability , the service is already paid for and yet to be redeemed.

however, someone also hasnt read the EULA very closely. CCP can discontinue their service in total or partially without warning for any reason.

Its listed in the liabilities but it has a clause for pure profit.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the OP is also wrong about how PLEX are introduced to the game. and what sort of effect they have on CCP finances.


Thats not the only thing the OP is wrong about.

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sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-05-22 17:42:24 UTC
In other words, it's a debt that may not be repaid. CCP can invalidate those PLEX you've stocked up one day when they feel like making you pay cash subscription instead. Isn't that nice?Big smile
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-22 18:30:36 UTC
What is this debt? (previous post is a sarcastic quip so I'm overlooking)

There is no debt.

Plex don't come down from the heavens out of shiny unicorns rear ends out of thin air...exception there of being as prizes or awards for getting buddies to join. (Got one for my Wife for example).

What is this debt crap you speak of?

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Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-05-22 19:47:31 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:


Plex don't come down from the heavens out of shiny unicorns rear ends out of thin air


Would love to get a unicorn that crapped out plexes!
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-05-22 19:50:15 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:



I think hes talking about PLex game time as liability , the service is already paid for and yet to be redeemed.



Yes however what people are forgetting to mention is that the people buying the plex's are still spending more money than one person would on a monthly subscription (34.99 vs 30 or whatever it comes out to), I wont even compare the numbers of the 3, 6, and 12, month subscription plans. Plex are working as intended as long as CCP doesn't go and spend all the money from plex purchases at once. I see that as some sort of project fund that the money is put into and if sh!t hits the fan they can just take it out of that fund or use the fund as intended. Makes sense to me.

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-05-22 22:49:22 UTC
Temmu Guerra wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:


Plex don't come down from the heavens out of shiny unicorns rear ends out of thin air


Would love to get a unicorn that crapped out plexes!



I know of one that craps out freaking rainbow laser beams that destroys buildings and things!LolLolLol

(don't ask me how I found that out....just look up Mr. Toots or something? My "Bosses Boss" knew about it....red faction armageddon would be the source of this nefarious creeature)

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