Jita Park Speakers Corner

+ eleventy million.

I want to know precisely what the null sec zealots are planning on doing.
Of course, it is pointless to discuss anything in the csm threads, since the vast majority of the members are bought and paid for by said null sec zealots.

The high sec players in the game have one recourse: speak with your wallets.
The csm speaks for anyone but high sec.

Plan is to introduce "T2 Production Arrays" that function like CSAAs in that they're sec-space exclusive, but not limited by sov and can be built in lowsec as well.

Players should be able to manufacture meta 1-4 items as well as faction/officer modules.

In fact, one could go so far as to say player manufacturing should be the only source of produced modules, and that destroyed mission and belt rats should just drop the components for these meta 1-4 items.

There should be a network of cooperation between combat and industry pilots - a combat pilot shouldn't be able to 'gun manufacture', and a pure industry pilot shouldn't have access to the materials for more advanced modules without fighting some sort of rat for the components.

I would like to see a retooling of T1 Ships Mining Barges all to be Tier 3 Ships Tech 1 Ships.
3 Classes -
The Tank/ Utility support barge
The Multi Target Low yield Drone Barge
The Focused High Yield Glass Ship.

Can the t1 Ships be rebalanced Making the Procurer Retriever and the Covetor be on the same tier. Tier 4 or 3

Procurer:
Procurer be focus on Tank and be able to use A strip miner and drones for mining and defence - to be able to be mine in the harshest of situations. Will have a bonus to Combat or Logistic Drones, Has a large drone bay but limited band with. Able to provide Replacement drones to Retrievers, or Logistic support to Covetors.
USE:
Type 1: This would be the hardened supporter of mining ops. Probably have one of these in every Group.
TYPE 2: Used in missions that required a mining barge to be apart of the mission: Collecting a Major Rock or Ice Item, Providing Limited Logistic and Combat drone support to PVE gangs PVP Ships
Ie Incursion Mining missions, High Suicide Gank areas, Be able to tank the most dangerous of belt with ease

Stats:
Tank
Medium Resists, Fair amount of Mid Slots, CPU and Power grid to build a tank as strong as a Battle Cruiser.

Retriever;
Retriever to focus on Drone Mining (Hardened, Boosted, and numerous mining Drones) with support Mining lasers (Not Strip Miners, strip miner can be used but at a penalty) Minters focus on Mining several Small asteroids at once. (A mini Mining carrier) (Bandwith of 50 but able to use drones base 5 but also 1 per level of ship)(Drone bay 100m3)
USE:
TYPE 1:This would be the efficiency multiplier for a group or used by the mostly afk miner as they can select 10 targets and mine each of them slowly at the same time, Not having to worry about switching targets often or being hit by a stray shot.
TYPE 2: It can also work in with other mining ships, finishing off the asteroids that would not give a full cycle to the Procurer or Covetor, and send drones out to mine a distant asteroid away from the rest.
TYPE 3: It can work solo in Ie Areas where the belts are only contain small asteroids ie newly respawned belts in empire

Covetor:
Covetor to Focus on Strip Miner mining pulling out the max ore per hour ratio between all the T1 ships. Is the Most Fragile. Yet it is able to sit in just 1 spot and mine the entire belt.
You can mine like nuts but the tank is limited (ie current tank) A Destroyer can easily take you out. You make sure you have Military or Logistic support so when rats or suicide gankers come you might make it out alive.
On the other hand you can mine the max ore as long as you watch you roids with a scanner so you don't loose time as the amount mined only takes up a portion of you mining cyele.
You will mark Astriods for the Retriever to finish for you, as you don't have a drone bay to use mining drones.
You rely on the Procerer to tank the belt for you, or a military ship, and rely on the logitics of the Procuerer drones, or (Military ship) to harden your tank, On the other hand those ship rely on you to bring in the Big bucks.

Procurer Stats
Tanks
Fair amount of Mid Slots, CPU and Power grid to build a tank as strong as a Battle Cruiser. 5% bonus to shield resists per level of Mining Barge
Hold Small – 2K
Size Battle Cruiser similar to that of Covetor,
Mining Laser Yield – 1 Strip Miner at 3% per level of Mining barge bonus to yield
Drones – 10% Bonus to Repair of logistic drones and 10 %Bonus to Combat Drones. Drone Bay 150 m3, Drone Bandwith 50m3

Retriever stats:
Standard resists Tank can be the strength of a Cruiser enough CPU and Power Grid to support it.
Hold 4K
Size Battle Cruiser Similar to that of a covetor.
Mining Laser Yield – Either 2x Mining Lasers at 200% capacity or Strip Miners at 50% Capacity.
Mining drones 10% Bonus to yield and Hit points Per level of mining Barge and 1 Extra drone to be used per level.
Drones – Drone Bay 50m3, Drone Bandwidth 50m3


Covetor stats
Destroyer Tank limited CPU and Grid to only allow Max Mining with minimal tank
Hold 4k
Size Battle Cruiser Similar to that of an old covetor
Mining Lazer Yield 3x Strip miners with a 7.5% bonus per level which is equivalent to a current covetor mining with lasers and mining drones at max level.
Drones – None
1 Mid slot for Rock scanner
Benefits
Just point and Click at roid.
Watch scanner to avoid wasted cycles.
Watch local for Suicide gankers,
No need to wait for travel time for Drones

I am also waiting/hoping for the feature of custom goods and local markets as apart of establishments which never appeared.

This will allow me to sell to selected individuals
Advertise my specific unique Cargo Expander or ship hull that may have a few unique quirks that I have discovered how to make.
--> I would like to see an experiment system that would produce a BPO of my unique item so only after countless attempted tried and Billions spent I finally tweak the unique item. I would also have lots of failed BPO to trash for most of my isk spent. But this would be one hell of a isk sink though BPO Breeding.....

"Risk vs Reward" trope? Check! "Argumentum ad absurdum" Strawman? Check!

Your argument is basically that you want your part of the game boosted at the cost of other parts of the game. You have no concept of balance. The arguments put forward by CCP Soundwave were that he doesn't like passive income, yet nothing was done about RP accrual — cutting something in half isn't the same as changing it to something else. The players who invested SP in the skills required to harvest data cores are being shafted while people who do nothing but shoot each other are now going to be the primary source of science & industry materials: this is no different to "mining with guns" and directly impacts on the people who had trained into T2 production. CCP Soundwave has already shown that he has no idea of the impact this will have on people already invested in T2 production (he questioned who would be impacted by "research with guns").

The argument was to "move T2 production more to low sec" but the R&D agents haven't moved. The argument was that "I don't like passive income", but the RP accrual mechanism hasn't been modified. CCP Soundwave claims that moving data core production to "research with guns" won't disenfranchise anybody. CCP Soundwave is, essentially, speaking from his arse.

At Fanfest there was even a presentation where they stated that there was too much focus on the "blowing things up" and not enough focus on the harvesting and building side of the game. The very next thing CCP Soundwave announced was moving data cores from science & industry focussed to "blowing things up" focussed.

EVE Online is not just about flying in space: it is about manufacturing, marketing, scamming, lying, cheating, stealing, capitalism, economics, politics and the exploration of what it means to be human. In short: it is a science fiction virtual reality.

We need to stop CCP Soundwave before he succeeds in turning EVE Online into Galaga Online.

Industrial Mining Equipment addition!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=105040&find=unread

This is my thread about an upgrade to the Giant Secure Can that is usuable for those times when the Orca is not available for unloading or whatever for mining operations that need some more volume storage until the Orca returns.

"We want to move T2 production more towards LOW and zero-sec."

What, do you not have access to low-sec?

Disclaimer: The provided values are from april and are indications only, not precise and influenced by our activity and how fast we are with putting ships back in. They are provided from our sheets and applications to provide us with an indication how we’re doing. In no way is this a complaint in what I’m doing or I wouldn’t be doing this. The values for may are more grim, but as we still have a week to go, I used april. I’m also posting with an alt to make wardeccing us slightly harder, you know what to look for at least :)
On another note, it seems invention got a nice boost/fix: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112471

Are t2 bpo really passive income or bad for the market?

Monthly production cycles. We think they aren't worth it. You would need about 3 months of cost in production chain. 1 month in ships in production, 1 month in materials for component production. And then you have another month in ships you just finished. In our case that would tie up 240b, which we'd rather use to buy another bpo.
Markup ranges from 14% to 169%. With an average of 56%. This is just taking into account sale price-material cost. There's the brokers fee and sales taxes and 6b per months in plex. In april we sold 120b worth of t2 ships, which cost us roughly 77b resulting in 43b profit.
Per month we need 80 jobs for components, restarted every week. And this is on a pos for the time bonus so we need to move the materials from 1 component assembly array to the other. There’s also some planning needed to calculate how much we need to produce that week, buying materials and move them to production system. And then we need another 35 jobs for the ships themselves. And then some more for t1 ships and R.A.M.s.
All this production then needs to be shipped to jita. This means 13,966,250 m3 or 15 freighters per month. And prices need to be updated every day to get everything sold as soon as possible which sometimes isn't possible. In the past we didn't produce from some bpos because we'd be oversaturating the market or because we don't make profit at all from the bpo.
Buying a bpo also entails quite some risk because future changes can make an expensive bpo worthless. Other way around can happen too. But with a t2 bpo you can't just switch. Bpo's cost now 7 to 10 years of profit to earn that back.
So for all this work in april we earned <37b, not just for installing 35 jobs. And that's after buying all those t2 bpo's, which would now cost at least 84 months *37b profit =3108b. This means a ROI of less than 1.2% per month.

If we’d be doing this is 0.0 with a fully upgraded station with 60% production speed bonus, multiply values by 2.5. The majority of the finished products need to go to empire as you can’t sell everything in 0.0. This would require 111 JF jumps, say, 15 min per 2 jumps meaning 14 hours per month which doesn’t include checking if it’s safe to jump. I can’t be bothered to calculate the fuel cost for that or losses to due to JF being killed.

Summary!
This means for 37b profit you need:
- 3108b isk for buying t2 Bpos + 60-90b for a weekly the production chain
- ~130 24/7 production slots
- 15 Freighter runs per month
- Daily market updating
- Time to create and maintain production (planning) spreadsheets and sales monitoring website.
- Our corporation was founded 9 years ago.

OT: I would like to see a “Deliver and reinstall” button, a lot less clicking needed when reinstalling the comp jobs or making copies. And modify corporation market orders with a character other than the person that created it.

I completely disagree. I don't think your new ship idea is needed, just some rebalancing of the existing barges, which are a little broken.

I think powergrid and perhaps CPU should be revisited. Ridiculously tight. Wouldn't mind a mid or low or two in addition.

Training times for the mining ships are not well spaced out. Drop the Procurer requirements substantially (remove some of the Mining Barge prereqs and put them on the Retriever and Covetor). Make it the pay off for the Industry tutorial perhaps. Gap between the Retriever and Covetor could be dropped (Mining Barge IV), and the gap between the Covetor and Hulk increased. (Reducing the Covetor's Mining Barge requirement to IV would probably do this fine, leave Hulk at V.)

I also look forward to whatever solutions are put in place for ring mining. Sounds interesting.

Second whoever brought up more grav sites. Would welcome additional grav sites that contain normal empire ores and are easier to scan. Giving miners better options than the well known belts is great.

Perhaps scannable ice belts (Comets?)