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CSM7 Summit Topic: The State of Incarna

First post
Author
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#101 - 2012-05-26 18:31:50 UTC
Two step wrote:
What would people like to see Incarna do?

Well actual gameplay would be nice. Exploration with rewards, PvP, maybe that drug smuggling idea CCP came up with 2 fanfests ago. Basically all the "Flying in Space" features that make eve great but on foot.

What I don't want to see is a neutered second life chat room full of people humping each other and CCP selling virtual pants that cost more real world money than it would cost to buy an actual real world pair of pants.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#102 - 2012-05-26 19:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Lord Zim wrote:

In other words, only the elite few will be able to sell goods on the market.


Now you're just trolling. There are still more open offices in eve than there are players. It just means that Empire would fill up fast and be likely unprofitable for solo corps. (Wow, look, eve would encourage playing with others and going to lowsec / 0.0! Imagine such a thing!)

Lord Zim wrote:

Again, how is this going to "add" risk?


Because it means that ganks won't have a big sign up that reads 'gank here! Stop flying afk one system before' like they do now. Everyone knows which systems are most likely. Now they'ed have to look at kills and make a guess. Or stop flying afk everywhere. It adds uncertainty. At the moment the haulers know where the ganks are going to be, just as the gankers know you will have to fly through the suicide gank.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-05-26 19:17:13 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Now you're just trolling. There are still more open offices in eve than there are players. It just means that Empire would fill up fast and be likely unprofitable for solo corps. (Wow, look, eve would encourage playing with others and going to lowsec / 0.0! Imagine such a thing!)

I see, so I'm going to be unable to sell my wares and it's going to be a ***** to get all the modules I want without travelling 30 jumps to collect them all.

Awesome.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Because it means that ganks won't have a big sign up that reads 'gank here! Stop flying afk one system before' like they do now. Everyone knows which systems are most likely. Now they'ed have to look at kills and make a guess. Or stop flying afk everywhere. It adds uncertainty. At the moment the haulers know where the ganks are going to be, just as the gankers know you will have to fly through the suicide gank.

Are you really going to sit here and claim, with a straight face, that haulers are clever people who will manage to avoid a much smaller camp setup whereever it may be in the hope that someone, sometime, will come by with something worth gankin, when burn jita has demonstrated, in no uncertain terms, that even when we give the entire eve universe ONE MONTH's warning, they still burn expensive freighters to jita during that weekend?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#104 - 2012-05-26 19:58:23 UTC
Look just give us the dev blog with the state of play of the Incarna engine so we can have a meaningful discussion.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#105 - 2012-05-27 04:23:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

I see, so I'm going to be unable to sell my wares and it's going to be a ***** to get all the modules I want without travelling 30 jumps to collect them all.


The second part is no different then current for a lot of people. The first one is: Why not? You make these accusations about my idea, but don't actually give any reasoning. The only reason I can see you'd be unable to sell your goods is 'You don't want to join a corp and can't be bothered to train the skills you'd need yourself.'

Which makes me think eve in general is a poor fit for your gaming style.

Unless you mean 'My corp/alliance is so hated by everyone else no one would buy from me'. At which point all I have to say is 'Too bad for you'.

Lord Zim wrote:

Are you really going to sit here and claim, with a straight face, that haulers are clever people who will manage to avoid a much smaller camp setup whereever it may be in the hope that someone, sometime, will come by with something worth gankin, when burn jita has demonstrated, in no uncertain terms, that even when we give the entire eve universe ONE MONTH's warning, they still burn expensive freighters to jita during that weekend?


Zim, there are always morons. Never said there were not. So, yes, some haulers will be too stupid to change, just as some 'pvpers' (and I use the term loosely) will be too stupid to function if there is not a gravy train of easy kills lining up to be the first kill of the day with cargoholds full of plex.


BTW: No, the smart haulers didn't show up. We let the stupid and/or daring show up for CCP's 'Welcome Back Mittani' party.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-05-27 04:39:09 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

I see, so I'm going to be unable to sell my wares and it's going to be a ***** to get all the modules I want without travelling 30 jumps to collect them all.


The second part is no different then current for a lot of people.

I go to jita, amarr or whatever large hub is near, buy everything in one go and move on. That's today's situation. Your situation means I'd end up having to fly from station to station and go into WIS, walk to every storefront and peruse their wares, make a note of the price of everyone, then a few hours later make a final round buying everything and hoping the prices haven't changed in the mean time.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The first one is: Why not? You make these accusations about my idea, but don't actually give any reasoning. The only reason I can see you'd be unable to sell your goods is 'You don't want to join a corp and can't be bothered to train the skills you'd need yourself.'

I've made my own corp for when I'm in hisec, and I work together in an informal coalition with a few former corpmates of mine, also with his own corp. Given your suggestion, I would have to either sell my wares to someone else for less than I would probably get on the market, or drop my corp and join someone else's corp.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Which makes me think eve in general is a poor fit for your gaming style.

I guess that's why this char is from 2005, because eve in general is a poor fit for my gaming style.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Zim, there are always morons. Never said there were not. So, yes, some haulers will be too stupid to change, just as some 'pvpers' (and I use the term loosely) will be too stupid to function if there is not a gravy train of easy kills lining up to be the first kill of the day with cargoholds full of plex.

BTW: No, the smart haulers didn't show up. We let the stupid and/or daring show up for CCP's 'Welcome Back Mittani' party.

I forget how many haulers we killed during those 2-3 days, but I believe it was well over 50, and they probably would've kept coming until we'd kept it up a month or something.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

RAP ACTION HERO
#107 - 2012-05-27 07:55:07 UTC
hey christ forget about wis, tell team avatar to fix the inventory stuff first

also i know yall really want yo avatars in places and emote each other but please don't shite up other daily tasks like using the market with it.

vitoc erryday

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#108 - 2012-05-27 08:11:10 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
hey christ forget about wis, tell team avatar to fix the inventory stuff first

also i know yall really want yo avatars in places and emote each other but please don't shite up other daily tasks like using the market with it.


Dude, your trolling is decaying, are you OK? Roll
RAP ACTION HERO
#109 - 2012-05-27 10:02:39 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
hey christ forget about wis, tell team avatar to fix the inventory stuff first

also i know yall really want yo avatars in places and emote each other but please don't shite up other daily tasks like using the market with it.


Dude, your trolling is decaying, are you OK? Roll

ok i'll make a concession, you can like, have a boutique for the nex clothes, you buy it with cash and sell it for isk at your boutiques, go nuts and trade pants or something
the rest of us narrow minded duders would continue to alt-r

vitoc erryday

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#110 - 2012-05-27 10:20:44 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
What I don't want to see is a neutered second life chat room full of people humping each other and CCP selling virtual pants that cost more real world money than it would cost to buy an actual real world pair of pants.


By "an actual real world pair of pants" do you intend to imply that you have a limited budget for pants-buying, or are you prepared to face the possibility of $100k designer jeans that are expensive only because they're a way to show off just how much money the super space-rich elite have?
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#111 - 2012-05-27 20:03:44 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

I go to jita, amarr or whatever large hub is near, buy everything in one go and move on. That's today's situation. Your situation means I'd end up having to fly from station to station and go into WIS, walk to every storefront and peruse their wares, make a note of the price of everyone, then a few hours later make a final round buying everything and hoping the prices haven't changed in the mean time.


See, I can never find what I'm after in just one of those at a reasonable price. I always end up shuttling 75 jumps across eve to save or make the most isk. I mean, sure, if I just want to blow isk, I suppose I could find everything in Jita, but I prefer to be a penny pincher, and it's not hard ot find deals below Jita prices if you're willing to make a few jumps.;

Lord Zim wrote:

I've made my own corp for when I'm in hisec, and I work together in an informal coalition with a few former corpmates of mine, also with his own corp. Given your suggestion, I would have to either sell my wares to someone else for less than I would probably get on the market, or drop my corp and join someone else's corp.


Again, oh, the horror, you would have to stop soloing and 'gasp' join a corp with other players to make the most isk (Which, as some of goonswarm have been hot to point out in the past, is sort of the point of eve).

Guess what: so would I, and I don't see it as a negative.

Lord Zim wrote:

I guess that's why this char is from 2005, because eve in general is a poor fit for my gaming style.


Mine's from 04. And frankly, I've seen people from 03 still playing who constantly whine about how the game is and how they wish it was carebears in space. I have no idea why they're still playing, but see my earlier comment on idiots.

Lord Zim wrote:

I forget how many haulers we killed during those 2-3 days, but I believe it was well over 50, and they probably would've kept coming until we'd kept it up a month or something.


Wow, a whole 50+? You did an amazing job killing 1/3 or less the usual number of haulers for a single day over a period of 3 days unless that + is really big. I'm willing to bet at least half of them didn't know, or care, up until killed, because goonswarm's decrees are ultimately irrelevant to most of eve. You guys scored higher on peoples 'care' meter when Mittani made all of us look like ******* criminals than any of your chest beating 'we're the boss of eve because CCP rolls over and lets us' operations.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-05-27 20:59:17 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
See, I can never find what I'm after in just one of those at a reasonable price. I always end up shuttling 75 jumps across eve to save or make the most isk. I mean, sure, if I just want to blow isk, I suppose I could find everything in Jita, but I prefer to be a penny pincher, and it's not hard ot find deals below Jita prices if you're willing to make a few jumps.;

I don't know about you, but I prefer to not spend 2 hours to save a few hundred thousand isk, and the fact the hubs exist is because most other players feel the same way.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Again, oh, the horror, you would have to stop soloing and 'gasp' join a corp with other players to make the most isk (Which, as some of goonswarm have been hot to point out in the past, is sort of the point of eve).

The point of EVE is that it's a sandbox, where people can do what they feel like.

Anyhow, this is moot, since CCP won't implement this idea as a full replacement of the normal market.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Wow, a whole 50+? You did an amazing job killing 1/3 or less the usual number of haulers for a single day over a period of 3 days unless that + is really big.

I've no idea what you're on about here. vOv

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I'm willing to bet at least half of them didn't know, or care, up until killed, because goonswarm's decrees are ultimately irrelevant to most of eve.

It certainly isn't something anyone can explain away with "oh I didn't see it", since it was on literally every gaming site for weeks, and it was even on the login page. And looking in literally all locals while I were checking around for a few minor things to buy for after the interdiction, it was all people could talk about as well.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Kimiko Tojima
Daughters of Hada
#113 - 2012-05-27 21:35:20 UTC
An NPC with limited scripting capability to create own "missions" would be nice thing to let players create their own content.

IIRC this has already be done once ("Storyteller" NPC in SWG).
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#114 - 2012-05-28 01:18:55 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

The point of EVE is that it's a sandbox, where people can do what they feel like.

Anyhow, this is moot, since CCP won't implement this idea as a full replacement of the normal market.


Really? Funny, I thought the whole point of griefing was to deny people the ability to play as they like.

And, probably not. CCP has a poor track record for implementing any of my ideas, though I know they do read them, the devs that leave CCP seem to implement them fast enough after leaving CCP in whatever game they head off to.

Lord Zim wrote:

I've no idea what you're on about here. vOv


The point was your awesome seeming numbers are dwarfed by JIta's normal daily hauler traffic. This suggests that, again, you got the idiots and the people that didn't care about the pronouncements of the over inflated egos of 0.0 alliances.

Lord Zim wrote:

It certainly isn't something anyone can explain away with "oh I didn't see it", since it was on literally every gaming site for weeks, and it was even on the login page. And looking in literally all locals while I were checking around for a few minor things to buy for after the interdiction, it was all people could talk about as well.


Zim.... The only thing I saw on gaming sites for weeks was coverage of Mittani's power point show at fan fest. Several of them also heaped scorn for CCP not banning him for life. I also enjoyed them covering his not quite retraction and blaming CCP for 'throwing (him) under the bus' and I did catch him vowing that you would all camp JIta. (People in game also eve mailed me apologies for having doubted the things I said about Mittens, because he was so considerate to prove me right in a most spectacular manner.) Personally, I had originally interpreted that as 'We're going to try to crash the node becasue we're losers who have no lives and want to RAGE' but CCP's spin doctors were quick to turn it into an event and effectively a 'Welcome Back Mitt' Party.

However, I admit, most of the time when I see the word 'goonswarm' I go read something else. If I wanted to hear egomaniacs rant and issue decrees to their cult of personality, I'd just pop a video of the Nuremberg rallies in my DVD player.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-05-28 01:27:38 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The point was your awesome seeming numbers are dwarfed by JIta's normal daily hauler traffic. This suggests that, again, you got the idiots and the people that didn't care about the pronouncements of the over inflated egos of 0.0 alliances.

A portion probably didn't go to jita during that weekend, a portion probably got lucky by going through while the gankers were on cooldown. I didn't claim that it was everyone. However, I did do a quick look through the killmails, and one guy lost at least 40b in 2 freighters, within 1 minute of eachother.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#116 - 2012-05-28 01:37:57 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

A portion probably didn't go to jita during that weekend, a portion probably got lucky by going through while the gankers were on cooldown. I didn't claim that it was everyone. However, I did do a quick look through the killmails, and one guy lost at least 40b in 2 freighters, within 1 minute of eachother.


Again, I did not say there were not morons in EvE. (I have, after all, seen PvP players deliberately attack gate guns in faction battleships, one patch day, because there was a rumor that they had been made destructible that patch.)

My point was that for all your posturing, you got a very small fraction of the actual traffic that normally passes through those systems.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-05-28 02:12:31 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
My point was that for all your posturing, you got a very small fraction of the actual traffic that normally passes through those systems.

You mean "normal daily traffic", I don't have numbers on actual numbers those days. In any case, measuring the effectiveness of the burn jita initiative by killmails alone (even though 20b+ freighters is tasty), is probably selling it ever so slightly short. More or less all trading in jita crawled to a halt, except for those who dumped their stock in a panic that is.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

RAP ACTION HERO
#118 - 2012-05-28 02:18:02 UTC
So what is this about? jita holocaust never again? but the goons "didn't even do that much damage" so what is the problem?
and oh no drunken mittani said bad things wth does it have to do with your shite idea of avatarded markets.

vitoc erryday

Flamespar
WarRavens
#119 - 2012-05-28 02:25:24 UTC
CSM should ask CCP on the current state of the prototyping for the exploration feature for Incarna. Given that this seems a really fun feature it would be great if CSM could give CCP the thumbs up to continue heading in that direction.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#120 - 2012-05-28 15:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Flamespar wrote:
CSM should ask CCP on the current state of the prototyping for the exploration feature for Incarna. Given that this seems a really fun feature it would be great if CSM could give CCP the thumbs up to continue heading in that direction.




I agree, it does sound interesting and looks to pave the way for other developments.


Lord Zim wrote:

I don't have numbers on actual numbers those days. In any case, measuring the effectiveness of the burn jita initiative by killmails alone (even though 20b+ freighters is tasty), is probably selling it ever so slightly short. More or less all trading in jita crawled to a halt, except for those who dumped their stock in a panic that is.


And, again, yes, there are morons in eve. We've covered that ground pretty effectively at this point. My point was it was ultimately a futile attempt that proved nothing other than 'we can camp Jita for a day or three' (which was done more effectively by occupy Jita). I know my profits were unhindered (or even helped) by it (200m for the weekend) so I can say that for having brought trading to a standstill, I made a decent profit regardless.