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CSM7 Summit Topic: The State of Incarna

First post
Author
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-05-21 07:49:04 UTC
I want a station environment similar to Babylon 5 where there is High sec – the Captain Quarters and Immediate area, a Low sec where the ship workers live, and Null sec, brown sector, where most people have no identity.

I want to explore into dungeons because I am more than my ship

I want establishment, allow us to make unique goods that are unique that can only by bought in my store. Allowing me to Make a Special item that may have less cpu but uses more power grid. So I can charge my own price and advertise them. Allow me to make recopies through experimentation.

I want to be able to use NPC bots that will interact with players giving and taking items and information. I would like to have them read custom markers and book marks so players can indirectly make adventures

Broad cast feeds from pilots showing up on Incarna Screens for some E sports

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-05-21 09:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Traidir
Here's some ideas for incremental content "ecosystems" for Incarna:
Station Maintainance Crews (an group of in station mini-games which can have wide reaching consequences in space)
Fight Clubs (a simple, casual in station fighting game)
Museums and Schools seem like a place to introduce "tutorial" videos for new players.
Medical Bays, where you can do see neural remaps and implant insertions (maybe even participate in the process)

Some other ideas which would be nice for WiS:
Cybernetic Prosthetic Limbs
Alternative forms of Artificial Gravity

I like the idea of exploring various objects in space in person... Sleeper/Pirate installations for example, perhaps with a crew of DUST Marines for protection.

I also like the Free to Play WiS idea. It seems like a good intro point for new players.

One last idea: an "apple-store" approach to player generated Art Assets could be developed. In this way, players could design clothes, rooms, and animations which the CCP creative art director could then sign off on. Players could even receive isk rewards for sales of items they design to incentivize skilled artists to contribute useful material.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#63 - 2012-05-21 19:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Two step wrote:
I don't disagree with all that stuff, but I think I (and many others) need to see a clear, step by step plan from CCP on how they want to get there. They simply don't have enough people to give both spaceships and Incarna they level of resources to make your vision a reality any time soon. I think they could get there eventually, but I think the key is going to be having real meaningful gameplay in Incarna first, and then expand from there. If people *want* to walk around and shoot stuff or something, they will be a lot more willing to have CCP devote more resources to the walking around part of the game.


Thanks for responding. I'm going to underline a few things.

1) I'm a software developer. I know that I'm asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars above. If you want to think of "my" "vision" as part of EVE: The Next Ten Years, that's entirely reasonable.

2) Thank you, Avila, for leaving that quote here. That is exactly the post I was thinking of when I mentioned F2P WiS. It's a brilliant idea.

3) CCP has a tough choice to make between creating social spaces and event spaces. Event spaces, like Walking-in-Space exploration sites, are shiny and would get lots of attention. Social spaces like corp offices or even lounges are more utilitarian, but if you put a bunch of people in a room with a reason to be there, you get game play. As long as there's some kind of hook, you're good. Note that in the case of corp and alliance offices, the hooks can be player-generated; the room should supply the tools to function effectively as a place for corp and alliance meetings (and maybe also comlinks with DUST corps). Do one at a time, nail it down, and push it out.

4) Absolutely do not force ANYTHING. If you can't get at least a reasonable percentage of people to use your new WiS feature on the merits, it failed. Rework it. The people who don't want any part of WiS will thank you, because they won't be forced into using content they don't like. The people who want WiS will thank you, because the content will be genuinely compelling to them.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-05-21 22:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Dersen Lowery wrote:
3) CCP has a tough choice to make between creating social spaces and event spaces. Event spaces, like Walking-in-Space exploration sites, are shiny and would get lots of attention. Social spaces like corp offices or even lounges are more utilitarian, but if you put a bunch of people in a room with a reason to be there, you get game play. As long as there's some kind of hook, you're good. Note that in the case of corp and alliance offices, the hooks can be player-generated; the room should supply the tools to function effectively as a place for corp and alliance meetings (and maybe also comlinks with DUST corps). Do one at a time, nail it down, and push it out.

The tools and hooks are a crucial thing if Incarna is to be anything more than the punchline to a grim joke, and so many posters seem to think that a successful WiS feature is just a question of putting players together in a room with nothing for them to do and relying on emergent gameplay to just rain magically from the heavens.

That's the reason that I'm sceptical about things like 'war rooms' for corps and alliances like you mention, though: what apart from pretty (or on current performance, not-so-pretty) graphics does such a feature offer to players that isn't already covered by chat channels, Teamspeak, or forums already available to corp and alliance members?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-05-21 22:11:48 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
That's the reason that I'm sceptical about things like 'war rooms' for corps and alliances like you mention, though: what apart from pretty (or on current preformance, not-so-pretty) graphics does such a feature offer to players that isn't already covered by chat channels, Teamspeak, or forums already available to corp and alliance members?

It could give an overview over your space, with details on who's in which systems, as one example

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Flamespar
WarRavens
#66 - 2012-05-22 05:35:18 UTC
It would also be good to hear what happened to the tattoos that were meant to be introduced in Inferno
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#67 - 2012-05-22 12:50:17 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
It would also be good to hear what happened to the tattoos that were meant to be introduced in Inferno


Houm... i think they were delayed, but can't provide a source nor a reason why.
RAP ACTION HERO
#68 - 2012-05-22 14:15:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
That's the reason that I'm sceptical about things like 'war rooms' for corps and alliances like you mention, though: what apart from pretty (or on current preformance, not-so-pretty) graphics does such a feature offer to players that isn't already covered by chat channels, Teamspeak, or forums already available to corp and alliance members?

It could give an overview over your space, with details on who's in which systems, as one example


christ wth would you need to be in avatar mode for that, would rather have something like an extra tab that does that when i press F10

vitoc erryday

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#69 - 2012-05-22 15:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Scatim Helicon wrote:
That's the reason that I'm sceptical about things like 'war rooms' for corps and alliances like you mention, though: what apart from pretty (or on current performance, not-so-pretty) graphics does such a feature offer to players that isn't already covered by chat channels, Teamspeak, or forums already available to corp and alliance members?


That's actually the subtext of my last point, that any features they offer should be appealing on their own merits, rather than the "you will use the CQ and you will like it!" approach that I arrived just in time to sample. Yes, you can use forums, and you can have a browser open over your view of the game. Yes, you can have a separate TeamSpeak app. Yes, you can chat. All of these work, and forums will have the continued advantage of being asynchronous. Chat and TeamSpeak are adequate, and will be useful for remote characters (spies!), but not precisely immersive. You lose tone of voice in chat. You have females with husky baritones in TeamSpeak.

None of them have the ability to pull a holographic map of a region up over a table, and show everyone present a route or a series of jumps. To pull up a system and walk fleet members through a strategy.

Imagine, say, a way to put multiple "ships" from a database of fleet fits in "space" in a tactical view, so that you can see all their ranges and falloffs, damage types, and so on. Add "targets" and play with the effectiveness of various ships vs. sig radius and transversal of enemy ships, or with wings of different ship types.

.... and that brings me back to the first point of my last post, which is that this is all butterflies and moonbeams and fairy tales, and I don't expect CCP to roll any of it out (though I'd be delighted if they did). CCP know what they can accomplish when, more or less. We don't. I'm handwaving a couple of examples of ways that a 3D corp office would be more useful than the current, 2D and out-of-game methods available. And it has to be more useful, or it's just a fancy chat room. Some people would use that, sure, but I'm not sure it would be a compelling part of the game.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-05-22 16:43:37 UTC
I have no idea if this would be feaseable in the near future but i would like to be able to take a mission for exploration. Hire a Dust Crew, Fly them out to the mission, land, and then down load my self into dust, pick up the PS3 and play that mission. May require me to have a special number of drone clones or dust clones to bring along for my self.

To make an away team like STO but with real players playing against a Nasty unfair AI. With the potential of being ambushed by players.

I just wish porting between the two games would be easy as the technology is already being developed. but one uses the unreal engine and the other uses the Carbon. This way i could get my exploration fix though dust. and then pop back into my ship back into eve. Would mean I would be training two sets of skill one for Flesh and the other for ship but they should not conflict to much.
Though it means picking up a PS3, which I have already but I feel the PC version should come out some time in the future.

Going this route, would make access to in the flesh exploration available sooner than later, and duplication of CCP assest would be less. Grant you the Unreal Engine won't provide as high graphics as Incarna but the action gameplay and battle harden coding would be.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-05-22 16:56:26 UTC
On a side note I would love to see a dev blog on the trouble they have had in the passed, and what they have done to over come it
-> why the decision was made to scrap the work completed for 2008 or was it scraped, what it just a test bed for feed back?
->Would using an Unreal Engine worked?
-> what advantages is core going to give over the other choices of premade systems
-> Will art assets be easily be transferable between, EVE, WOD, DUST, Un-named Project 1 and Un-named Project 2
-> Is there plans to merge WIS in Dust or do easy ports in between. So that some day a Dust merc will come face to face with a Eve Pod pilot?

How far on along are they on the though process:
Brainstorm List,
Would like to do but not sure if possible
It might be actually Possible in the future
it is possible
Yeh we would like to do it eventually
It is on the list if there is nothing else to do
It is on the bottom of the list.
Next 5 Years
Next 3 Years
Next 2 Years
With the next 2 years
Soon
Next expansion or one after.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-05-22 23:12:37 UTC
Two step wrote:
The State of Incarna - The CSM does not want to be in the dark about where CCP is looking to take this feature.

What would people like to see Incarna do?

A customization of CQ.

A lot of different furniture in NeX, and maybe even larger quarters which players can buy.

Maybe a same customization with corp and alliance offices.

Gloves and hats - why they're forgot about them?

As for a gameplay, i think it's later to think.

Anyway, it's shouldn't be combat oriented, as it is with FiS: Shooting other people, or NPCs. It's fine, but if we're talking about a "Sci-Fi simulator" There should be a lot more than just pew-pew in space. Make it more interesting, a bigger world.

And talking about bigger, i'm not talking bigger like over 5.000 generic solar systems. It's should be interesting to explore.

No, not like flying to a plex, use some special module on cont, take proffit and call this thing "an exploration". It's should be interesting even without proffit or for a people who has enough ISK, which is a same thing. Maybe because of content - Skyrim-large stations, or because of social gameplay.

I want this to be something like The Sims in a first time. With such depth it's will be very interesting to add some combat to it. Although i don't need that at all, but ppl will whine.

Also, it's not the main reason, but i think that there should be more girls, and they're like those things. Maybe i'll even show this game to my girlfriend and some female friends. After all, i don't have much of male friends in RL Smile

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-05-23 03:27:08 UTC
Ideally (and I realize this will take CCP years to implement), I would like something along the lines of Space Hulk for avatar gameplay. For those who don't know, it's a nice little game from '93. There was also another, newer version I believe in mid-late 90s. Just replace genestealers with rogue AI, and you're all set.

Why this specific style?

Easy.

For one, controls would be very easy. Press W, your character moves one cell down the corridor. Avatars will look pretty and all, but the game will be simple to control and responsive. Space fires/swings your weapon. A and D turns your character to face left or right.

Also this game type does not require a lot of art resources. Just look at recent release "Legends of Grimrock", quit a nice little game with minimum of art resources and runs great.

Solo, this setup would play more like Aliens, as in survival-horror. But it would also work very nicely for group gameplay, just increase the spawn locations and rates, and people will have to watch eachothers' backs and move as a unit, similar to the original Space Hulk game.

Anyway, that's what leaps to mind. But I'm rather worried. Incarna took years, and delivered virtually zero gameplay. I hope future iteration is quicker, and delivers actual gameplay. Otherwise they're just throwing good money after bad, and that's never a good idea.
Andrea Griffin
#74 - 2012-05-23 04:18:40 UTC
In the near-term, I would love more character customization. More clothing options, more tattoos, more hair / body / piercing options. What ever happened to those weird plastic things the Gallente used to have?

In the long-term, there simply needs to be a purpose, something to encourage socialization.

Board games and gambling are population options. I would love to see the Eve CCG and the Eve board game implemented as a WiS feature. I would like more though; I would like to see missions designed around the concept. Nothing too violent or action-y though. Think along the lines of the Thief franchise. Covert stuff.

I want a Slaver Hound to follow me around and growl at Minmatar.

Allow assassination attempts on other players to occur. Theft. Again, more sneaky stuff, less overt action. We have a million cookie-cutter FPS games for that. Go in a different direction. Go so something that hasn't been done.

Yeah, I did plant a bomb inside of that guy's ship before he undocked. Sucks to be him when he went into a mission, I set off the explosives, and suddenly half his armor is gone and the modules in his lower rack were damaged. Even more fun in a PvP situation.

Oh, and that other guy? Yup. I stashed some contraband somewhere on his ship. Police caught him, fined him, dropped his sec status.

And then there's this trader. I always wondered how he made all his money, so I broke into the station's trading system and figured out which market orders were his. Then I managed to cancel a few of them. Less competition for me.

This kind of stuff opens a lot of new doors - new professions, new skills, and a whole new era of stabbing people in the back for fun and profit.
Hrald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#75 - 2012-05-23 04:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrald
Agents and PvE stuff are the only things that I think should be affected by WiS. Insurance is simple enough to do by wire, as is contracting. Have agents have little offices that are CLOSE to the CQ so you don't spend 10 minutes walking there and back.

In highsec, add in a function of brawls. Have a betting comission set up so that two pilots can register as combatants, people can place bets on them and the payouts are determined by an algorithm based upon their killboard efficiency+proficiency. The two players then warp to the deadspace encounter with two acceleration gates that are time sensitive for activation, which they then go and fight. Two men enter, one man leaves kinda deal. I think it'd be an interesting mechanic to include for gambling. People can then stream live on justin.tv or something like that. It'd be like a low-level alliance tournament.
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#76 - 2012-05-23 09:39:20 UTC
Focus on spaceships and the basics, like they said they would in Crucible. If you have to do the whole WiS thing, do it the way they somewhat intended it to be:

Players can meet up, and do trades for drugs (requires the replacement of customs officers with players), sit down and chat, have a screen with a large map for corp meetings. Too much more than this would be a waste of development assets turning eve into a station game, and don't force people to use any of it.

Also, with dust, there's no reason as to why capsuleers wouldn't start using the consciousness transferring implant thingies aswell. It's a lot more reliable than the many lore documented cases of the capsule system failing for one reason or another.
Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-05-23 12:22:40 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

It could give an overview over your space, with details on who's in which systems, as one example

christ wth would you need to be in avatar mode for that, would rather have something like an extra tab that does that when i press F10

Perhaps the supercomputers, solar system surveillance equipment, and communications hubs required to coordinate all that information would only reasonably be found in a station? (sounds plausible right?)

Gevlin wrote:
I have no idea if this would be feaseable in the near future but i would like to be able to take a mission for exploration. Hire a Dust Crew, Fly them out to the mission, land, and then down load my self into dust, pick up the PS3 and play that mission. May require me to have a special number of drone clones or dust clones to bring along for my self.

To make an away team like STO but with real players playing against a Nasty unfair AI. With the potential of being ambushed by players.

That sounds like a fun idea; although, if an Egger was going to come along with dust troops, he should have a completely different skill set and perform some critical function the Dusters can't handle. Perhaps, some kind of mission specific node control like hacking into Rogue Drone AI and disabling/commandeering them; diving into a sleeper Virtual AI in order to control the sleeper installation defenses and access ways; or inserting himself into a 100 ton mining rig and playing Godzilla on the battlefield.

Until the Dusters reach that critical point in the map, the Egger shouldn't have much access to complex weaponry and defenses (cause, then why not just play DUST instead?). In that way, he'd be more of a liability the Dusters would have to drag along (and keep alive)... until they made it to the fun part.

You could even have some "king of the hill" matches, where Dusters defend the capsuleer's vulnerable physical location from the other team's assault while he controls facility defenses. That would be crazy fun.

(This would, of course, probably be a very distant goal of Avatar gameplay... *frown*)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-05-23 12:49:41 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
christ wth would you need to be in avatar mode for that, would rather have something like an extra tab that does that when i press F10

You're such a negative nancy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#79 - 2012-05-23 18:47:57 UTC
Exploration sites where you can wander around inside structures and find cool things. I would do that.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#80 - 2012-05-23 19:49:22 UTC
Just want to point that if you are proposing NEW suggestions rather than recap things already discussed, please, forward your NEW suggestions to the WIS discussion thread here so we can discuss them ther w/o cluttering this thread.