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New dev blog: More Skin Color Options

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Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2012-05-19 11:47:54 UTC
T1nyMan wrote:
Valerie Tessel wrote:
Sad that the new clothing isn't going to make it in. I was definitely going to get this: http://i.imgur.com/L6RVD.jpg


0.0 Oh my..

I like her eyes

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#142 - 2012-05-19 14:34:20 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
The artists are not following this thread. I have though been trying to answer the questions I know the answer to, whether it was yesterday on our day off or now, at 8.40 pm on a Friday, so please show some respect (nothing in this thread that is disrespectful, but MailDeadDrop knows what I'm talking about).
We are all very busy preparing for the release on Tuesday, and I have not wanted to go bother the artists with issues that are not directly related to the release.
As far as I know, there are no hairstyles on the way, but I have not wanted to come here to state that and get all the hair hate in full force when this thread is not really about hair.

And no, petitions are not the right place to ask questions.

It wasn't so much the lack of an answer, as the utter lack of *any* response, when you were obviously interacting with others, that was so maddening. And it isn't just this thread. A simple "dunno" would have gone miles.

As for no hair corrections, shame on the artists (or whomever is responsible) -- a release full of character creator fixes and they missed that one.

MDD
cmaxx
Outside Context Solutions
#143 - 2012-05-19 14:44:11 UTC
So we have spaceships, and clones, and terrible/wonderful biological and nanological tools at our disposal, but we can't pay for elective plastic surgery, a tanning booth and a dye-job at the hairdresser?

This is meant to be the greatest scifi simulation of all time evah, yes?

Why can't we have blue skin (drinking too much colloidal silver will do that in real life today) or orange (bad fake tan or too much carrot juice) or all-over tattoes of mixed and varied hues (any issue of Bizarre magazine)?

Eh? Eh? Enquiring minds want to know! :)
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#144 - 2012-05-19 14:55:25 UTC
cmaxx wrote:
So we have spaceships, and clones, and terrible/wonderful biological and nanological tools at our disposal, but we can't pay for elective plastic surgery, a tanning booth and a dye-job at the hairdresser?

/me looks at cmaxx's portrait
I find your bleating for dye jobs at hairdressers ... disingenuous. Lol

cmaxx wrote:
This is meant to be the greatest scifi simulation of all time evah, yes?

Why can't we have blue skin (drinking too much colloidal silver will do that in real life today) or orange (bad fake tan or too much carrot juice) or all-over tattoes of mixed and varied hues (any issue of Bizarre magazine)?

Eh? Eh? Enquiring minds want to know! :)

Speaking personally, I can see where such richness would need to be prioritized with the other tasks that the artists et alia are accomplishing, and that those tasks might "fall below the cut line". Such is life in software development projects. But it would be refreshing if we the customers could see a timeline of coming attractions instead of the usual CCP policy of dumping something out of left field on us 2 weeks before release.

MDD
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-05-19 16:34:08 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:

Speaking personally, I can see where such richness would need to be prioritized with the other tasks that the artists et alia are accomplishing, and that those tasks might "fall below the cut line". Such is life in software development projects. But it would be refreshing if we the customers could see a timeline of coming attractions instead of the usual CCP policy of dumping something out of left field on us 2 weeks before release.

MDD


and then telling us that there isnt time to change something that happens to be broken or a feature that is not universally desired.

although to be fair. Ive been ranting about skin colors. and hats. and shirts.
not exactly the most world shaking things to be complaining about.

But yes longer lead times and lots more (user) testing on sisi for us and we can get everything hammered out. You have hundreds of willing testers. Y u no let us help?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#146 - 2012-05-19 19:22:25 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I think this issue could have been worked out along with players before you essentially left 70% of humanity out of your "we want darker" solution. Was an issue players weren't aware that actually existed, has been fixed without asking us and now you just pissed off people who's got colored skin but are not African.

BTW, in case that i am being misunderstood, i may point that by "red skin" i mean this color:

Light red skin (Ollanta Humala, president of Peru)

Dark red skin (Evo Morales, president of Bolivia)

Just FYI, I have mapped out all the skin colors before and after the change and sent to the relevant people to ask them if they feel any color is missing... when I hear back from them I might share that with you (took long enough to make itP)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#147 - 2012-05-19 19:35:00 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Submitted - bug report ID 135552 in case if you want to track it.
Excellent... good catch. I've just fixed itSmile Thanks Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#148 - 2012-05-19 20:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
The other day I incorrectly said that currently we had 6 colors per bloodline, but they are only 5 (so Indahmawar Fazmarai, it's actually 60 colors rather than 72).

Anyways, like I said in an earlier post, I mapped them all out today, and I saw that very few of the bloodlines had a significant color difference. You guys have been asking why we can't just keep the old colors and also get the new colors, and it just became even clearer to me now that it really would't make sense.

The old system is very different from the new one... there you have a base color, and then some color that on top of that to create the color. So even if I apply the darkest Brutor color to my Amarr dude, he's just going to be a little bit less pale than normally because his base color is just very pale.
The new system does not use this base color system, so if we were going to allow both to be pickable it would mean that we would need to support 2 very different system in the same color wheel which is only asking for trouble.
And then it's just what I have been saying before that a color wheel with 10 rather pale colors out of 17 (for Amarr) would look skewed and strange.

When we started on the skin colors, the fairest bloodlines did look a little silly when they had darker skin color, like they were pale people who had tanning too much, but our artists did some artist magic so now they all look very good Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#149 - 2012-05-19 20:46:20 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I think this issue could have been worked out along with players before you essentially left 70% of humanity out of your "we want darker" solution. Was an issue players weren't aware that actually existed, has been fixed without asking us and now you just pissed off people who's got colored skin but are not African.

BTW, in case that i am being misunderstood, i may point that by "red skin" i mean this color:

Light red skin (Ollanta Humala, president of Peru)

Dark red skin (Evo Morales, president of Bolivia)

Just FYI, I have mapped out all the skin colors before and after the change and sent to the relevant people to ask them if they feel any color is missing... when I hear back from them I might share that with you (took long enough to make itP)


Oh, thank you! I hope they give it a look and agree that some colors are seriously amiss. I don't know what was the criterion to pick the final 14, but, as far as colors gone away, a picture is worth a thousand words

Won't be hard to figure that the missing color is the one to the right (Khanid racial color #1 iirc). What may be more difficult to notice is that the one to the left and the one in middle are NOT the same color (I double-checked and not, i didn't m botched the copy & paste: colors #2 and #7 are exactly that similar).

Quite puzzling. Reds AWOL and yet got a caucasian white and a caucasian tan so similar that they're hard to pick off at first.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#150 - 2012-05-19 20:54:57 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
The other day I incorrectly said that currently we had 6 colors per bloodline, but they are only 5 (so Indahmawar Fazmarai, it's actually 60 colors rather than 72).

Anyways, like I said in an earlier post, I mapped them all out today, and I saw that very few of the bloodlines had a significant color difference. You guys have been asking why we can't just keep the old colors and also get the new colors, and it just became even clearer to me now that it really would't make sense.

The old system is very different from the new one... there you have a base color, and then some color that on top of that to create the color. So even if I apply the darkest Brutor color to my Amarr dude, he's just going to be a little bit less pale than normally because his base color is just very pale.
The new system does not use this base color system, so if we were going to allow both to be pickable it would mean that we would need to support 2 very different system in the same color wheel which is only asking for trouble.
And then it's just what I have been saying before that a color wheel with 10 rather pale colors out of 17 (for Amarr) would look skewed and strange.

When we started on the skin colors, the fairest bloodlines did look a little silly when they had darker skin color, like they were pale people who had tanning too much, but our artists did some artist magic so now they all look very good Smile


Oh, you typed while I was creating the image... I think it states my point completely: there is nothing even remotely similar to indahmawar's current color (and yet she's lighter than my main Ishtanchuk, which in turn is not dark enough to suit my taste).

Red people is gone from New Eden. Straight
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#151 - 2012-05-20 02:08:44 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
The other day I incorrectly said that currently we had 6 colors per bloodline, but they are only 5 (so Indahmawar Fazmarai, it's actually 60 colors rather than 72).

Anyways, like I said in an earlier post, I mapped them all out today, and I saw that very few of the bloodlines had a significant color difference. You guys have been asking why we can't just keep the old colors and also get the new colors, and it just became even clearer to me now that it really would't make sense.

The old system is very different from the new one... there you have a base color, and then some color that on top of that to create the color. So even if I apply the darkest Brutor color to my Amarr dude, he's just going to be a little bit less pale than normally because his base color is just very pale.
The new system does not use this base color system, so if we were going to allow both to be pickable it would mean that we would need to support 2 very different system in the same color wheel which is only asking for trouble.
And then it's just what I have been saying before that a color wheel with 10 rather pale colors out of 17 (for Amarr) would look skewed and strange.

When we started on the skin colors, the fairest bloodlines did look a little silly when they had darker skin color, like they were pale people who had tanning too much, but our artists did some artist magic so now they all look very good Smile


Oh, you typed while I was creating the image... I think it states my point completely: there is nothing even remotely similar to indahmawar's current color (and yet she's lighter than my main Ishtanchuk, which in turn is not dark enough to suit my taste).

Red people is gone from New Eden. Straight


I'm not sure whats up with you guys, but I just won't be changing any of mine, as sort of a protest to you people not being able to add anything to this game without taking away from what already there this patch. guess it doesn't matter much as I 'm just going to let my account lapse over the inventory changes if they can't get them right before they launch them. Tell the devs that did the missile effects good job.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#152 - 2012-05-20 04:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Pale skintone severely bugged - as I suspected right from start (I didn't check other tones): upon exiting re-scuplting character is tanned as usually in captain quarters and after entering character customization window it's becoming obvious pale skin missed in action - check this image:

http://imgur.com/n7oGp
http://i.imgur.com/n7oGp.jpg?1

Also as you can see character is tanned in captain quarters and I wouldn't call that "pale" (I didn't change or re-customize character after re-sculpting - thumbnail on Sisi still has pale skin, note: this is not Lipbite character on the image, but I can tell her name to check difference between saved pale thumbnail and tanned character and new thumbnails).

There will be unimaginable amount of whine if this bug will make it onto live servers.

Submitted bug report # 135608
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#153 - 2012-05-20 07:21:30 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
The other day I incorrectly said that currently we had 6 colors per bloodline, but they are only 5 (so Indahmawar Fazmarai, it's actually 60 colors rather than 72).

Anyways, like I said in an earlier post, I mapped them all out today, and I saw that very few of the bloodlines had a significant color difference. You guys have been asking why we can't just keep the old colors and also get the new colors, and it just became even clearer to me now that it really would't make sense.

The old system is very different from the new one... there you have a base color, and then some color that on top of that to create the color. So even if I apply the darkest Brutor color to my Amarr dude, he's just going to be a little bit less pale than normally because his base color is just very pale.
The new system does not use this base color system, so if we were going to allow both to be pickable it would mean that we would need to support 2 very different system in the same color wheel which is only asking for trouble.
And then it's just what I have been saying before that a color wheel with 10 rather pale colors out of 17 (for Amarr) would look skewed and strange.

When we started on the skin colors, the fairest bloodlines did look a little silly when they had darker skin color, like they were pale people who had tanning too much, but our artists did some artist magic so now they all look very good Smile


Oh, you typed while I was creating the image... I think it states my point completely: there is nothing even remotely similar to indahmawar's current color (and yet she's lighter than my main Ishtanchuk, which in turn is not dark enough to suit my taste).

Red people is gone from New Eden. Straight


I'm not sure whats up with you guys, but I just won't be changing any of mine, as sort of a protest to you people not being able to add anything to this game without taking away from what already there this patch. guess it doesn't matter much as I 'm just going to let my account lapse over the inventory changes if they can't get them right before they launch them. Tell the devs that did the missile effects good job.


Well, giving "Two" with one hand and taking away "Three" with the other is becoming an habit for CCP... and sooner or later they will have it.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#154 - 2012-05-20 10:12:47 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Pale skintone severely bugged - as I suspected right from start (I didn't check other tones): upon exiting re-scuplting character is tanned as usually in captain quarters and after entering character customization window it's becoming obvious pale skin missed in action - check this image:

http://imgur.com/n7oGp
http://i.imgur.com/n7oGp.jpg?1

Also as you can see character is tanned in captain quarters and I wouldn't call that "pale" (I didn't change or re-customize character after re-sculpting - thumbnail on Sisi still has pale skin, note: this is not Lipbite character on the image, but I can tell her name to check difference between saved pale thumbnail and tanned character and new thumbnails).

There will be unimaginable amount of whine if this bug will make it onto live servers.

Submitted bug report # 135608
You are right, it's very important to get this fixed. This is the issue where there were some problems when we ported everything to a new branch to prepare for the deployment. There was one change that got left behind, but I moved it on Friday, and there was some problem when Sisi was update late yesterday so it was not update with that change. I'll be verifying the fix today when Sisi has been updated again.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to make a bugreport and let me know Smile, people sometimes just assume that someone must know and that some else will file a report and then no one does

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#155 - 2012-05-20 10:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malice Redeemer wrote:
I'm not sure whats up with you guys, but I just won't be changing any of mine, as sort of a protest to you people not being able to add anything to this game without taking away from what already there this patch. guess it doesn't matter much as I 'm just going to let my account lapse over the inventory changes if they can't get them right before they launch them. Tell the devs that did the missile effects good job.


Well, giving "Two" with one hand and taking away "Three" with the other is becoming an habit for CCP... and sooner or later they will have it.
I'm sorry that you guys feel this way, I promise that we are not out to get you.

Malice, have you told the inventory guys what's your problem with the inventory system in a constructive way? It does not help us very much when people just say "ARGH, I don't like it!".
If you have not, try posting a to the point post about your issues in the feedback thread.
(and just a friendly reminder to everyone that when you post negative feedback, insulting the devs is not the right way to get attention... just to be clear, I'm not saying you two were in this thread, just a general reminder to everyoneP).
I think people are going to get used to the new inventory system pretty fast, and I hope you will give it a chance Smile

Anyways, I'll tell my art friends good job on the missiles Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-05-20 11:25:56 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
The other day I incorrectly said that currently we had 6 colors per bloodline, but they are only 5 (so Indahmawar Fazmarai, it's actually 60 colors rather than 72).

Anyways, like I said in an earlier post, I mapped them all out today, and I saw that very few of the bloodlines had a significant color difference. You guys have been asking why we can't just keep the old colors and also get the new colors, and it just became even clearer to me now that it really would't make sense.

The old system is very different from the new one... there you have a base color, and then some color that on top of that to create the color. So even if I apply the darkest Brutor color to my Amarr dude, he's just going to be a little bit less pale than normally because his base color is just very pale.
The new system does not use this base color system, so if we were going to allow both to be pickable it would mean that we would need to support 2 very different system in the same color wheel which is only asking for trouble.
And then it's just what I have been saying before that a color wheel with 10 rather pale colors out of 17 (for Amarr) would look skewed and strange.

When we started on the skin colors, the fairest bloodlines did look a little silly when they had darker skin color, like they were pale people who had tanning too much, but our artists did some artist magic so now they all look very good Smile


So a color wheel looking silly is the excuse for removing color options?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#157 - 2012-05-20 12:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
CCP karkur wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malice Redeemer wrote:
I'm not sure whats up with you guys, but I just won't be changing any of mine, as sort of a protest to you people not being able to add anything to this game without taking away from what already there this patch. guess it doesn't matter much as I 'm just going to let my account lapse over the inventory changes if they can't get them right before they launch them. Tell the devs that did the missile effects good job.


Well, giving "Two" with one hand and taking away "Three" with the other is becoming an habit for CCP... and sooner or later they will have it.
I'm sorry that you guys feel this way, I promise that we are not out to get you.

(...)


Well, there's a lot of bitterness backlog. In a sense, it's completely true what i said about how Crucible did nothing for me and now Inferno is just taking stuff away.

I don't like EVE, rather play it because there are no alternatives. And the more your company touches it, the more you alienate me from it. Just have a short list of my failures to get into EVE:

I had plans to hunt bounties - but they are broken beyond hope
i had plans to grief griefers back -but the mechanics are uneffective
I had plans to learn fleet PvP -but EVE-U was wardecced for a month after i joined it and I just quit EVE-U, tired of being locked in a station. I didnt flew a single minute with EVE-U. And this was the most valuable lesson I have ever learned about EVE: CCP doesn't cares about earnest players and favors douchebaggery instead. Too bad i am not a douchebag.
I had plans to solo Lvl 5 - but they were moved to lowsec, and as my mission ship costed me three months to pay for it, i am not taking any chances with it
I had plans to join a corp and move to nullsec -but the corp was dismantled the second week of being in nullsec, in time for the CEO to steal everybody's stuff and leave everybody stranded in enemy territory... minus me and two other guys still reluctant to make the great leap. Lucky us.
I had plans to play in stations, but it turned Incarna was to be about dealing in boosters, a stuff i never touched nor interested about it.
I had plans to do PI, but turned to be awfully dull, complicated and not very well paid
I had plans about exploraiton,but turned to consume awful amounts of time
I had plans to grind missions for NEx store fancy items, but it turned i should bot to earn enough as to pay for even the cheaper ones... and the single item that interested me most in Sisi has never been released, anyway.
I had plans to wait for Winter 2011 and Summer 2012 expansions to add some content to Incarna, but Incarna was scuttled.
I had plans that putting Issler Dainze in the CSM would help to make hiseccer being heard, but she is a "unpolitical" person and she's being harrassed all over the game and the forums... which means people like me will not matter much at the CSM-CCP meetings
I had plans to take a chance to make my avatars darker with the new colors, until i logged in to Sisi and learned that my colors where actually gone and i severely had misfigured what "a wider range of options" meant.
Oh, and some months ago i had plans to farm datacores to pay for PvP via a specialyzed alt, but you know what CCP Goonwave just did to that, right?

Sounds liek I tried to play the wrong game for three and a half years, doesn't it? And yet I log in, mine a few pyroxeres, and feel satisfied with it, only fearing whenever you CCP will decide it's about time to "fix" mining. Ugh

If not a "politically correct" EVE player, at least i am a stubborn one...
Bayushi Akemi
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2012-05-21 12:37:54 UTC
I just checked out the new skin colors on SiSi.

They aren't horrendously terrible, however, the same thing that happened when this CC went live has happened again. People are unhappy with aspects of the changes because diversity is being removed and they are having to reimagine their character, breaking their RP or immersion because the art department can't be arsed to listen to players.

My old main will never be able to look like she did pre-carbon, which is 10x better than how she looks now. I understand the art department has a vision, but would it really hurt to go and look at what they had and add 'retro' options for things like skin color, hair color and clothing? I miss my gallente space helmets and minmatar face masks still. I miss my corn row crown and see through shirts.

Edit: I would also like to be able to give this char green dreadlocks so she looks like Jade from Shadow Raiders.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1354941#post1354941

Fundamental Problems with New UI. Also, see Tippia's post
Abigail Sagan
Skeleton Liberation Front
#159 - 2012-05-22 11:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Abigail Sagan
Maybe the changes will be for the best, but somehow I doubt that. If I understood the 'new skin colors' correctly; on one hand they give wider options within one race, but on the other they reduce the options of the playerbase by giving the same skin colors for all the characters and thus limit EVE. If it helps in making WIS reality sooner, I can accept those new limitations though. (Not that I can do much about it anyways Lol )

On other matter...
CCP karkur wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Yours seems to be, too. I guess CCP artists care so little about hair that we don't even rate a response. *shrug* Sad

MDD
The artists are not following this thread.


... Why aren't they? I would think it would be essential to know what people think of their handiwork.

Abigail
PS: I hope I got the quotes right. If not, my apologies to all involved.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#160 - 2012-05-22 13:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Abigail Sagan wrote:
Maybe the changes will be for the best, but somehow I doubt that. If I understood the 'new skin colors' correctly; on one hand they give wider options within one race, but on the other they reduce the options of the playerbase by giving the same skin colors for all the characters and thus limit EVE. If it helps in making WIS reality sooner, I can accept those new limitations though. (Not that I can do much about it anyways Lol )

On other matter...
CCP karkur wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Yours seems to be, too. I guess CCP artists care so little about hair that we don't even rate a response. *shrug* Sad

MDD
The artists are not following this thread.


... Why aren't they? I would think it would be essential to know what people think of their handiwork.

Abigail
PS: I hope I got the quotes right. If not, my apologies to all involved.


You understood correctly, Incursion delivered 5 locked skin colors for each race, thus there was a total of 5 x 3 x4 = 60 skin colors.

Now every race has got the same 14 colors, minus some races which won't be getting the darker ones for coherence reasons and minus the Khanid characters as their red skin color has been removed from the new palette.

In most places in the world, moving from 60 unique options to 14 generic ones is deemed LESS and not MORE, but CCP offices in Reykjavik are a funny place...