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New dev blog: More Skin Color Options

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Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#181 - 2012-05-26 06:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakaane Eionell
Having "lifted" or "expanded" skin and hair color options, please also expand eye color.

With the old character creator, my Intaki character had very dark green eyes:

http://evefaces.com/?sakaane+eionell

http://solitarypilot.incyanity.net/art/1a.jpg (bigger version which shows the eyes better)

They were essentially black but had a forest green sheen to them. This color is not possible in the current CC. There isn't even a flat black to choose, just brown or darker brown. Algae green is not an acceptable compromise.

Additionally, please add more color options for lipstick. No, I don't want Barbie pink or two identical shades of apple red or yellow or blue or green. But magenta and burgundy, like in my original portrait, are very real and perfectly acceptable shades. It's ridiculous that the closest I can currently come is with a semi-transparent shade of black!

I would also like to echo others' sentiments that many of the classic CC's clothing and headdress options (what we could see anyway) were actually quite nice and not at all outside EVE's "style". I'd really like to have that black corset back (but not with that silly shoulder shield thing). I'd really like to have my headdress back, as a mark of traditional Intaki heritage. I'd really like to have more simple, elegant facial tattoos like the one I used to have. I'd really like to have individual makeup touches like the eyebrow dots I used to have which are not automatically tacked to circus-like eyeshadow choices.


I looked at that big skin tone image CCP karkur made... Many of the new default skin tones look sickly and unattractive. Too many of the new defaults are too close together in hue.

Remember how CCP thought players were trolling when we said ship spinning was important to us? Being able to create characters whose race or bloodline is not easily mistaken for another one falls into that same kind of category for many people. Is this "the best character creator in the biz"? No! If I'm Intaki but someone from another bloodline can turn out looking basically the same as me due to having the exact same skin tone choices, hair choices, clothing, etc.... What point is there in having a race or a bloodline at all? Restricting just a few skin tones and eye shape does not leave enough distinction.

Someone mentioned how after 20,000 years the bloodlines would just be a melting pot, and to some extent that would be true, which is why the mixed bloodlines feature will be good. But every culture is still going to maintain a certain amount of insularity as part of a natural instinct of self-preservation. A certain percentage of people will never intermarry. Thus there will still be marked differences between bloodlines. They will not all have similar skin tones. They will not all dress the same nor all go to the same hair salon. Many of them will have entirely radical ideas about fashion based on their heritage and cultural values. The classic CC addressed this very, very well even if the actual avatar models were, in some cases, "cartoony". The current CC fails at this quite extensively. Every EVE avatar looks like it stepped out of a mix between the 1998 Sears catalog and a copy of NME doing a spot on punk rock. You get the idea.

CCP wants to introduce racial blending which is a fantastic option for RPers who have reason to have characters be of mixed heritage...but if all the races have essentially all the same options anyway, the only point to blending will be to get a mixed Show Info description. Everyone will still look the same, so you'll have achieved almost nothing.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#182 - 2012-05-26 07:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
A well thought out post, it reflects some of what i've been saying for a while. Everybody enjoying the same choices everywhere is not a victory of choice, is a defeat of diversity.

I came to create Khanid characters because they were the cutest laser-firing race. Lol I named them after how they looked in the old CC. I created Indahmawar to try to win a beauty contest (which my main Ishtanchuk had won the year before; indah was second on her try). So this is how I became involved with RP my characters, and thent the new CC was both exciting and a hard blow. It had very few choices but I figured they would just iterate it until giving us back the old identity traits. This no longer looks like the plan; whatever we get new, it's going to be maximum-profited by handing it over to everybody, which means that in turn it must be the average (enter brand store)-looking stuff or else it won't fit to every race. Average one-size-fits-all diversity, much as the new skin types, is produced not out of "it is better", but out of "it is cheaper" (needs less resources, delivers more use per resource allocated).

Which may make sense from a business POV, but is not even close to being "excellent". And that is so even aside of leaving behind a whole race...

Sakaane Eionell wrote:
(...)

Additionally, please add more color options for lipstick. No, I don't want Barbie pink or two identical shades of apple red or yellow or blue or green. But magenta and burgundy, like in my original portrait, are very real and perfectly acceptable shades. It's ridiculous that the closest I can currently come is with a semi-transparent shade of black!(...).


Oh yes.. i've been asking for lavander/violet/plum lipstick and eyeshadow since Incarna. Lol Crucible delivered coral pink, but that's been all for now...
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#183 - 2012-05-26 10:48:20 UTC
Sakaane Eionell wrote:
I looked at that big skin tone image CCP karkur made... Many of the new default skin tones look sickly and unattractive. Too many of the new defaults are too close together in hue.
Some of them are actually the same... there are 18 screenshots of the new colors even though they are only 14, but that's because some bloodlines share the same default color so some are listed more than once (their number is on the images, for example "c4")

Sakaane Eionell wrote:
If I'm Intaki but someone from another bloodline can turn out looking basically the same as me due to having the exact same skin tone choices, hair choices, clothing, etc.... What point is there in having a race or a bloodline at all? Restricting just a few skin tones and eye shape does not leave enough distinction.
People have very different opinions on this... you want more restrictions, but a lot of people want all the restrictions to be lifted.Straight

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#184 - 2012-05-26 12:21:49 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:


Sakaane Eionell wrote:
If I'm Intaki but someone from another bloodline can turn out looking basically the same as me due to having the exact same skin tone choices, hair choices, clothing, etc.... What point is there in having a race or a bloodline at all? Restricting just a few skin tones and eye shape does not leave enough distinction.
People have very different opinions on this... you want more restrictions, but a lot of people want all the restrictions to be lifted.Straight


Houm...

That may be because there's too few choices to pick from. If, say, there were only 24 hairdos and half of them were racially locked, then people obviously would ask acces to the other half. But then, if every race had 24 "universal" hairdos and 24 "racial" hairdos, the need for options would be less.
MirrorGod
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2012-05-27 23:08:14 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
WTB able to change race/bloodlineSad

At least once, that's all I need.


So much this, or, more specifically, don't limit appearance to blood lines. All I want is a bloody red mohawk already. Minmatar get all the cool gear and I'm stuck with all the conservative old people robes n ****. it's lame.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6070/6122338654_85e9bbfca9_z.jpg

Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#186 - 2012-05-28 04:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakaane Eionell
CCP karkur wrote:
People have very different opinions on this... you want more restrictions, but a lot of people want all the restrictions to be lifted.Straight

Saying I want restrictions doesn't mean I'm saying players should have fewer choices. Right now there is very little for everyone to choose from. Thus, as Indahmawar Fazmarai said, people will ask for no restrictions because this is the only way to get more choice.

For skin tone, I think CCP has made a mistake making them available to all bloodlines the way they did, most importantly because now we'll have unrealistic results. The classic CC set precedence regarding which groups have which predominant skin color. Thus other tones should only have become available with the upcoming racial blending feature, and even then only those tones which would be necessary and appropriate to mix the chosen heritages.

But this isn't to say there should only be a handful of shades each or that each EVE ethnic group which falls predominantly into a category of white, black, red, yellow, or olive should all have the same colors to pick from. Even staying within the realistic skin tone spectrum there are so many excellent hues that could be available! And, with 20,000 years to work with, think about the environments the New Eden ancestors lived in before space flight became common again. Not every EVE world has a yellow sun like ours. What permanent impact might generations of living under a blue or red sun have had on skin pigmentation?

Restrictions to preserve and enhance bloodline uniqueness and diversity can go further: to hair, tattoos, clothing, and so on. A system could be built which compromises on the issue of people who want access to "everything" without making all EVE avatars look like cookie cutouts. Clothing is an easy example.

Let's call common clothing and adornments, like t-shirts, jeans, jackets, glasses, running shoes and simple boots "tier 1". This clothing would essentially be most of the 20th and 21st century-esque models we currently see in the CC. This clothing is simple and makes anyone look like "regular Joe Smith". They should be available to everyone in a variety of colors regardless of race or bloodline. There should be a few different models at this level.

"Tier 2" clothes and adornments are more numerous than tier 1 and are empire specific. They should introduce particular styles, designs, traits, and colors which make it obvious what part of the map they came from. Each empire's specific clothing should be directly inspired by the playable bloodlines in that empire. For example, tier 2 Amarr would include Amarr robes with hoods. These robes would be markedly different than tier 2 Intaki robes available in the Federation. Some tier 2 clothes would also be fancier versions of certain tier 1 clothes. All tier 2 clothes would only be available to players with characters from the specific empire, and to "immigrants" who have sufficient standings with the specific empire. For example, an Intaki player would have access to all tier 2 Federation clothes but not any tier 2 Amarr clothes unless the Intaki player had sufficient Amarr Empire standings. Standings are already used to restrict movement of players from one area of the map to another, so I think it also makes sense that retailers would not make their wares available to someone with poor standings.

The ultimate clothes and adornments would be "tier 3". These models should be less numerous than tier 2 but the most fancy and have aspects to them which no other clothing has. These clothes would always only be available to specific bloodlines. For example, a tier 3 True Amarr robe can only be worn by True Amarr. A tier 3 Reborn Intaki robe can only be worn by Reborn Intaki.

Racial blending should also factor into this idea. If someone decides to be half Deteis and half Intaki, the player should gain access to the tier 2 and specific bloodline clothes of both. Racial blending should only allow a limited number of blends though. New Eden mutts would be silly.

How does a player obtain tier 2 and 3 clothes? The CC should be smart enough to unlock the right clothes based on bloodline and standings.

Apply this same idea to hair, tattoos, jewelry, etc. This is how you start to get "the best character creator in the biz". It will actually allow for more truly unique characters without stifling the creation process and, by touching on standings, it begins to meaningfully integrate avatar creation with player action within the game.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#187 - 2012-05-28 09:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Sakaane Eionell wrote:
(long quote)


That's an interesting concept, but it much depends on what does CCP plan to do. They've been saying that social aspects of WiS will come later than gameplay, which in turn is in some early planning phase.

I already stated on several occasions what i think that this means about CCP's compromise to WiS; wether they don't want or can't, they're not seriously compromised nor involved in forwarding it. And in a sense they're not misguided to do so: people barely noticed that sleeve tattoos slipped out from Inferno release, FAI.

I am waiting for the devblog to be published tomorrow and the CSM-CCP meeting this next weekend, but i seriously doubt they will surprise nor thrill us, rather will confirm how FUBAR is WiS for what's left of 2012 and likely all of 2013 and beyond.

In a sense, i would like to think that once the V3-ization of ships is finished, the art team will have spare bandwith to throw some bones for use with the CC, but, being the pessimistic kind, I just figure they will start redoing POSes or whatever else matters to the politically correct players. WiSers are a tiny neglectable minority within the neglected hisec majority, and the politically correct minority who plays the sandbox the way it is intended and thus gives CCP headlines and fills the ranks of the CSM and floods the forums with trolling or chest banging to forward their special interests, the People That Matters, to put it short, they couldn't give a rat's ass of WiS.

So here we are, mostly left on our own.
vanillacherry
VaCh Industries
#188 - 2012-05-28 15:27:32 UTC
Sakaane Eionell wrote:
..Restrictions to preserve and enhance bloodline uniqueness and diversity can go further: to hair...

We've had 20,000 years of technological growth regarding hair dye and hair gel. Everyone should have access to all hairstyles and should be able to have ANY colour that they want, even neon green or purple or whatever else you may choose. Other suggestions are cool though.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#189 - 2012-05-29 16:10:59 UTC
Thank you for this.

It is an important thing for the world and self perception whether non sociologists and pychologits want to believe ot not



Let tech people make tech decisions and doctorates in social sciences be consulting resources on this type of thing.


.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#190 - 2012-06-02 17:26:02 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

DOH! Shocked

You just incarnated my worst nightmare with the new skintypes, editing some of my girls and not just LOSE her original color, but have it shifted to something ludicrous.

Best wishes and hope they'll get to you soon. Smile

There was a bug in the history slider. I fixed it last Wednesday and it was deployed on Thursday, so it should be safe to try out the new colors Smile
I have also fixed vanillacherry and all the characters (except one) that changed colors because of this bug.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#191 - 2012-06-02 20:51:47 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

DOH! Shocked

You just incarnated my worst nightmare with the new skintypes, editing some of my girls and not just LOSE her original color, but have it shifted to something ludicrous.

Best wishes and hope they'll get to you soon. Smile

There was a bug in the history slider. I fixed it last Wednesday and it was deployed on Thursday, so it should be safe to try out the new colors Smile
I have also fixed vanillacherry and all the characters (except one) that changed colors because of this bug.


Why, oh why are all CCP female devs so lovely? Lol


(BTW: any news on the missing Khanid color? P )
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#192 - 2012-06-03 11:11:51 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

DOH! Shocked

You just incarnated my worst nightmare with the new skintypes, editing some of my girls and not just LOSE her original color, but have it shifted to something ludicrous.

Best wishes and hope they'll get to you soon. Smile

There was a bug in the history slider. I fixed it last Wednesday and it was deployed on Thursday, so it should be safe to try out the new colors Smile
I have also fixed vanillacherry and all the characters (except one) that changed colors because of this bug.


Why, oh why are all CCP female devs so lovely? Lol


(BTW: any news on the missing Khanid color? P )

Bear
I'm sorry, I have not heard anything more about the Khanid color. It was being looked into, and the guys seemed to be considering adding new colors to the color wheel, but I don't think anything has been decided yet.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Tlat Ij
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2012-06-03 17:20:33 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:

There was a bug in the history slider. I fixed it last Wednesday and it was deployed on Thursday, so it should be safe to try out the new colors Smile
I have also fixed vanillacherry and all the characters (except one) that changed colors because of this bug.

So can I check out the new skintypes without inadvertently changing colors now?
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#194 - 2012-06-03 19:15:10 UTC
Tlat Ij wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:

There was a bug in the history slider. I fixed it last Wednesday and it was deployed on Thursday, so it should be safe to try out the new colors Smile
I have also fixed vanillacherry and all the characters (except one) that changed colors because of this bug.

So can I check out the new skintypes without inadvertently changing colors now?

Yes Big smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#195 - 2012-07-12 13:04:36 UTC
Sorry for potential necroposting, but I was wondering have the skintones been fixed? By fixed I mean looking at least somewhat human.

Last I checked, probably about a month back while I still had a working computer, there was no proper caucasian skintone available. Basicly choices were sickly yellow, albino white and dark chocolate brown. Now, I probably wouldn't have minded yellow except it looked like you had a bad liver disease. Perhaps nothing wrong with brown either other than it looked completely unnatural, like my character had been made of chocolate. As for why I don't want to look like an albino-slash-chalked supergoth white probably doesn't need an explanation.

So, do the skintones look more natural today or not? Thanks in advance for replies.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#196 - 2012-07-12 13:19:18 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Sorry for potential necroposting, but I was wondering have the skintones been fixed? By fixed I mean looking at least somewhat human.

Last I checked, probably about a month back while I still had a working computer, there was no proper caucasian skintone available. Basicly choices were sickly yellow, albino white and dark chocolate brown. Now, I probably wouldn't have minded yellow except it looked like you had a bad liver disease. Perhaps nothing wrong with brown either other than it looked completely unnatural, like my character had been made of chocolate. As for why I don't want to look like an albino-slash-chalked supergoth white probably doesn't need an explanation.

So, do the skintones look more natural today or not? Thanks in advance for replies.
there are plenty of caucasian skintones.

Take a look at this image... I think colors C2-C7 could work for you.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#197 - 2012-07-12 13:35:46 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
there are plenty of caucasian skintones.

Take a look at this image... I think colors C2-C7 could work for you.


Huh. I don't recall such variety when I browsed them the last time (and I did try every last piece on the slider), but could of course be my old Gfx card had trouble rendering things properly. Well, thanks for the quick reply, will take a gander again when I'm able. :)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#198 - 2012-07-12 13:40:34 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Sorry for potential necroposting, but I was wondering have the skintones been fixed? By fixed I mean looking at least somewhat human.

Last I checked, probably about a month back while I still had a working computer, there was no proper caucasian skintone available. Basicly choices were sickly yellow, albino white and dark chocolate brown. Now, I probably wouldn't have minded yellow except it looked like you had a bad liver disease. Perhaps nothing wrong with brown either other than it looked completely unnatural, like my character had been made of chocolate. As for why I don't want to look like an albino-slash-chalked supergoth white probably doesn't need an explanation.

So, do the skintones look more natural today or not? Thanks in advance for replies.


I would say no, as I too noticed how the new skintones are somewhat dull/faded (?) compared to the old ones. I was thinking to swap color for one of my girls and she looked like her skin was dehydrated, it lacked that kind of shine his older color has.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

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