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Idea for removing gates
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Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#41 - 2012-05-29 22:49:52 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Although the idea of removing Stargates is great it is not as simple as it seems OP. It would require introduction of many new features and dealing with many issues.

ArrowScanning/dragging system


Deep space probes

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

ArrowAbility to scan ships during inter-system jumps


Could be an interesting addition to deep space probes, but I like the introduction of a new probe for it better.

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

ArrowAbility to drag those ships via bubble-like mechanics
ArrowAbility to counteract scanning/dragging via special modules/ships ( jumping with solo freighter would be suicide and using fleeted escorts, which can counteract scanning/dragging would become a necessity ). Of course counteraction would not provide immunity.


Nullifiers on t3's and drag bubbles could probably be easily modified to fit this need, as well as an additional module in sov space I mentioned above

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

ArrowTravel should still take a lot of time ( it would just become less tedious but riskier at the same time - no gate guns and NO CONCORD intervention when you are caught in between systems )
ArrowInitiating this kind of jump would need to take some time ( much longer than initiating intra-system warp ) and on most ships it could be like lighting a cyno ( to certain extent ) so players nearby can see what is going on but they can't warp to you unless they scan you first. Of course it wouldn't apply to covert/exploration vessels.
ArrowAdding fuel usage would also be nice


Agree
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#42 - 2012-05-29 22:54:02 UTC
TheButcherPete wrote:
Why try to pitch an idea that you know will never be done? You sir, are an idiot.


LOL this guys is a genius though. I wonder how long it took to come up with that post.
Kaylen Vimanis
#43 - 2012-05-29 22:56:30 UTC
So you could autopilot unchallenged from jita to the end of null system chain? Since there's no slowboating you would rewarp as soon as you got into the new system.

I'm guessing the default ap warp would be to planet 1 right? or would you prefer a random planet to make it easier?

I don't mean to be pedantic but there's a massive imbalance to removing gates from the game, in that not only would hi-sec ppl or big alliances from any sec status system would be able to invade null very quickly without complication of need to jump or bridge their capitals, but also vice versa ppl in null would be able to get out of null a lot easier, and you would virtually get no conflict with people warping past each other all the time.

Granted perhaps this would make the game more interesting, but you're asking for a lot of traits on ships to be changed, and requiring most people to fit a scan probe launcher.

If you're wanting easier anti camp travelling, the best CCP is going to do is add a ship that bypasses gates, and you can bet that it won't be able to bypass all the gates without penalty, but for gates to be removed is not going to happen. We need places of conflict to exist for the game to be balanced. If miners could just warp mining ships to null and back with a scout, this would change the market, and probably annoy a lot of null guys.

The thing is null guys don't actually want hisec wanderers going into their territory, they farm their regions just fine without them and make a killing. This would hit pirate gate camps the most, but guess what if gates were removed you can bet CCP would add a pirate gate camp ship/deployable that catches you mid warp in between systems, and you would still get rage because all the pirates and null guys would have them.

Gates are working as intended, you just need a scout, common sense and timing, or take a longer route round. Try not to go through Tama on autopilot ok?

I’m a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#44 - 2012-05-29 22:58:30 UTC
Selissa Shadoe wrote:
Alexila Quant wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and just say no. This is a TERRIBLE idea. Removing gates is to remove pvp.

Untrained jumping might as well be level 5. A random point in the system? That makes it 100% safe for anyone to jump anywhere without any trouble, **** jump freighters could almost autopilot without a care in the world.


LOL.. It might remove gate camps, but if that's your idea of PVP then you suck, quite frankly. If all you can do is hang around a gate and take a whack at people that come through you're really not trying.


+1 fail pvpers are funny. "I can't kill anything if it's not handed to me in a net of 20 on 1 right after it unknowingly jumps through a gate."

If we have to keep the gate system, how about we implement a feature which gives us feedback on the receiving gate? Like once you're within 100k of a gate, you can get instant feedback of recent ship kills, or even current ships within 100k of the target gate. I mean seriously, the gates are tied together, why can't they communicate information?

Let the tears flow. yum yum.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#45 - 2012-05-29 23:03:38 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:


For gameplay to be engaging, you need to be doing more than just hide and seek. You need to have conflict.
In the vastness of space, (realistically portrayed), you just need to avoid sensor range of any potentially hostile force in order to avoid risk.


Maybe for it to be enjoyable to you. So as long as Eve has your style of game play at the forefront of development, then it's not broken right? I get it now.

And you can't avoid sensor range if people know what they are doing. A few people already do. Those people tend to live in wormspace. You sir, obviously have no clue how to fully utilize tools which you were given.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#46 - 2012-05-29 23:06:02 UTC
Kaylen Vimanis wrote:

I don't mean to be pedantic but there's a massive imbalance to removing gates from the game


Sorry I couldn't get past this... Should probably rethink that.
Kaylen Vimanis
#47 - 2012-05-29 23:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylen Vimanis
No more than rethinking about removing gates no doubt.

I can combat probe relatively quickly, but in no way would i be able to combat probe a target i was tracking if they were seemingly able to warp from 1 system random location to another system random location and so on and so forth till they reached whatever destination it was. I'm not even sure i would even bother deploying probes.

Have you ever combat probed active targets yourself? and timed yourself how long and how many scan attempts it takes to pin point someone doing an operation in an empire system or wormhole without being detected? If the answer is more than 10 seconds with more than 1 attempt then you too won't be able to probe down anything, not even the slowest supercarrier with all it's fighter bombers out. if gates didn't exist.

If you're asking for a probing overhaul too to balance this change, then you're basically suggesting a 1 button click for 100% scans on all ships that takes 5 seconds, and that would just be ridiculous.

I'm I being trolled here?

I’m a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-05-30 00:44:10 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Selissa Shadoe wrote:
Alexila Quant wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and just say no. This is a TERRIBLE idea. Removing gates is to remove pvp.

Untrained jumping might as well be level 5. A random point in the system? That makes it 100% safe for anyone to jump anywhere without any trouble, **** jump freighters could almost autopilot without a care in the world.


LOL.. It might remove gate camps, but if that's your idea of PVP then you suck, quite frankly. If all you can do is hang around a gate and take a whack at people that come through you're really not trying.


+1 fail pvpers are funny. "I can't kill anything if it's not handed to me in a net of 20 on 1 right after it unknowingly jumps through a gate."

If we have to keep the gate system, how about we implement a feature which gives us feedback on the receiving gate? Like once you're within 100k of a gate, you can get instant feedback of recent ship kills, or even current ships within 100k of the target gate. I mean seriously, the gates are tied together, why can't they communicate information?

Let the tears flow. yum yum.



That's called dotlan. And the in game map already gives you an average number of ships in space.

Admit it, you just want to get into VFK and gank ratters with zero effort.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#49 - 2012-05-30 00:58:34 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
Selissa Shadoe wrote:
Alexila Quant wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and just say no. This is a TERRIBLE idea. Removing gates is to remove pvp.

Untrained jumping might as well be level 5. A random point in the system? That makes it 100% safe for anyone to jump anywhere without any trouble, **** jump freighters could almost autopilot without a care in the world.


LOL.. It might remove gate camps, but if that's your idea of PVP then you suck, quite frankly. If all you can do is hang around a gate and take a whack at people that come through you're really not trying.


+1 fail pvpers are funny. "I can't kill anything if it's not handed to me in a net of 20 on 1 right after it unknowingly jumps through a gate."

If we have to keep the gate system, how about we implement a feature which gives us feedback on the receiving gate? Like once you're within 100k of a gate, you can get instant feedback of recent ship kills, or even current ships within 100k of the target gate. I mean seriously, the gates are tied together, why can't they communicate information?

Let the tears flow. yum yum.



That's called dotlan. And the in game map already gives you an average number of ships in space.

Admit it, you just want to get into VFK and gank ratters with zero effort.

More likely is that he's never heard of dotlan, can't be bothered to use the star map and won't train a scout up because all his character slots are used for high sec hulk bots miners.

Half the idiots who cry about gate camping wouldn't come to low or null even if CCP did remove it, they just use it as an excuse for being bad at the game.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#50 - 2012-05-30 02:13:27 UTC
I have been pushing for system to system dialed in warp for a while now. Partly because it would unleash pure lolhell in this game, and partly to shut up those "leet" 0.0 PVPers who complain about lack of targets on one hand, and destroy anything not blue on the other - while all blued to each other.

Right now, to get the effects of "no gates", I use wormholes. I just spent nearly 2 weeks in a dead end 0.0 system owned by a huge alliance and only now have I seen someone else. I have been using wormholes to avoid the bubbles and gank pipelines in the same ship for THREE YEARS.

And what is 0.0 like when you get out there without having to be a renter or slave?

It's deserted. The bubble camps manned by renters and slaves comprise a "Great Wall of Carebear" whereby those on the 0.0 side of it will malign those in highsec for not joining their corps or ending up in their bubble camps. Yes, there are bears on BOTH sides of that wall because 0.0 has local and when you find a dead end spot or a spot not on any throughway you will be the only one in local.

And the truth is, they like it that way. Sure there is the "oh HTFU and get a scout alt! Carebear! Go back to WOW! Marsha Marsha Marsha!" but there are two things I have to say about that. First, whenever a game is encountered by most people where the "only way to make it" is to get a second account that you pay for or have to grind for, it looks like a scam. It's like only half the content or capability is handed to you and then you are told to fork over 100 percent more for the rest. It would be one thing to get a free beer and no glass to put it in, but the beer is not free. Second, it seems that a lot of people who make bad decisions would not be happy unless they can get everybody else to make the same bad decision as if to make the previous decision valid. I am sorry for those who got sucked in, but the rest of us don't have to be suckers too. The same crowd cries "This is a sandbox!!!!1!!". Yes it is, and therefore I can find a way to think out of the box they they didn't muster enough awareness to try, in ways they were not bright enough to consider.

Using my non-warp wormhole travel, I go into 0.0 space and explore, and quite often get run off the radar and mag sites by superior firepower because an exploration ship is quite weak. I can still take out belt rats for nearly a million ISK a piece though, and some sites I can still take on. But that's my lone wolf play - imagine if I was in a team of say 5-7 with logistics? We would be able to take on more sites. Sanctums? Not sure about that because right now I am thinking of what you can fit through a wormhole without collapsing it.

In the end, I find my way back in high sec with a hold full of loot and BPs, and maybe sleeper stuff depending on what I find during the trip. Jumping from high to 0.0 or back can take over a week, sometimes 10 minutes, and a few times direct wormholes between high sec and 0.0 (they tend to be rare).

Getting rid of gate dependency would make the game everything that the "leet" crowd claims it should be, or claims that it already is whenever they dogpile someone in the forums for complaining about getting ganked. I see it all of the time, and they post the "how to travel" stuff, and I get my same-account alt and try the methods - especially when I see something I didn't know about before - and yes most of the methods works against most of the campers out there most of the time. But it's only a matter of time before you hit that gate with the bubble right on top of it and the people sitting there, like miners, were there long enough without activity that the maps lacked kill stats. So if you can convince yourself that you like to lose, you still lose. Of course the refrain is "join a 0.0 corp you carebear" but having proved that I can get to 0.0 without putting up with nerd rage and HFA drama, I ask again why I have to repeat someone else's bad decision?


Let us have system to system warp and we'll see a real sandbox with lots of buckets and pales being thrown around.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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