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CCP, Get rid of Moon Goo so Goons and other large alliances have to work for their isk!!
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Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-05-17 18:26:44 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
But isnt that the whole point? Nullsec has to have higher rewards especially to support huge alliances. Hisec has incursions that pay huge amounts with little risk, OK you have to run teh incursions yes. Nullsec alliances NEED a large income to support the large sov costs and so on. It also supports absolutely huge fights as you kow, the kind of fights you simply dont get anywhere else. How would alliances support that without income? Yes you could say that each pilot can rat his isk etc, but you would simply not have the battles on the scale and frequency that you do now.

If you removed moon goo, you would have to remove sov bills too. Or no alliances could exist without thoroughly extorting isk from its members. Moon goo needs balancing, everyone knows and acknowledges this. It does not need removing. What would be added to the game by its removal? What would the people of hisec get if goo was removed from null and low (and this would even further nerf lowsec).

If you removed moon goo from nullsec you would see nullsec become a much quieter, less populated and less violent place. Is that a good thing?




Ya I agree with the point Rico, Sov needs to be reconsidered entirely.

I ammreciate your response on this. And yes PVP is a rush. Maybe what needs to happen, I am now chaging my thinking a little Rico thanks to you, Maybe if CCP placed Moon Goo in High-sec.

O hell make all of Eve Null and put Moon goo, in what was high sec as well.

This way the carebears as you and others call it would be forced to fight for their isk. And ganking but be combated with a convoy type mentality.


I give up guys.

Ugh!!!

Rico you win.










It isnt about giving up or winning. You had an opinion and wanted to voice it.
Also my apologies for callign you stupid.. I was somewhat overzealous, and no I dont know why you left FA. Again, my apologies if I was offensive.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Hung TuLo
Running with Dogs
Out of the Blue.
#102 - 2012-05-17 18:28:21 UTC
highonpop wrote:
Hung TuLo wrote:
highonpop wrote:
Noobs start the funniest threads....


Because having to grind out SOV and then hold it is not 'working' for the ISK...


And Nullsec industry is alive an well outside of moon mining.




Sorry, not a Noob, nice try though.



Your character is from 2012. If you are older than that, why not post on the forums with your main acct when starting thread singling out alliances or corps?

nice try though.



Actually, if you really wanted to take a look at my character, then do it. I have 22mil sp. I have been playing on and off for over 2 years.

I have been in Null alot, if not all, of that time.

"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI
Hung TuLo
Running with Dogs
Out of the Blue.
#103 - 2012-05-17 18:37:06 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Hung TuLo wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
But isnt that the whole point? Nullsec has to have higher rewards especially to support huge alliances. Hisec has incursions that pay huge amounts with little risk, OK you have to run teh incursions yes. Nullsec alliances NEED a large income to support the large sov costs and so on. It also supports absolutely huge fights as you kow, the kind of fights you simply dont get anywhere else. How would alliances support that without income? Yes you could say that each pilot can rat his isk etc, but you would simply not have the battles on the scale and frequency that you do now.

If you removed moon goo, you would have to remove sov bills too. Or no alliances could exist without thoroughly extorting isk from its members. Moon goo needs balancing, everyone knows and acknowledges this. It does not need removing. What would be added to the game by its removal? What would the people of hisec get if goo was removed from null and low (and this would even further nerf lowsec).

If you removed moon goo from nullsec you would see nullsec become a much quieter, less populated and less violent place. Is that a good thing?




Ya I agree with the point Rico, Sov needs to be reconsidered entirely.

I ammreciate your response on this. And yes PVP is a rush. Maybe what needs to happen, I am now chaging my thinking a little Rico thanks to you, Maybe if CCP placed Moon Goo in High-sec.

O hell make all of Eve Null and put Moon goo, in what was high sec as well.

This way the carebears as you and others call it would be forced to fight for their isk. And ganking but be combated with a convoy type mentality.


I give up guys.

Ugh!!!

Rico you win.










It isnt about giving up or winning. You had an opinion and wanted to voice it.
Also my apologies for callign you stupid.. I was somewhat overzealous, and no I dont know why you left FA. Again, my apologies if I was offensive.




Np mate, You made very good points. Part of the problem is the sov system. I'm sure if my corp was able to get going with Moon goo we would also. Just not possible at this time.

I think the frustration with Goons is not they themselves. I think the problem lies in the fact that everyone wants to have a chance to win. With the Goons that chance is virtually gone. There is no possible way for anyone from High-Sec to go and dethrone them from their dominance. There is not a strong enough connection between the other alliances to go up agains Goons, CFC. It's just the way it is.







"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2012-05-17 19:30:46 UTC
well, not with that attitude mister
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#105 - 2012-05-17 19:35:19 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:
Np mate, You made very good points. Part of the problem is the sov system. I'm sure if my corp was able to get going with Moon goo we would also. Just not possible at this time.

I think the frustration with Goons is not they themselves. I think the problem lies in the fact that everyone wants to have a chance to win. With the Goons that chance is virtually gone. There is no possible way for anyone from High-Sec to go and dethrone them from their dominance. There is not a strong enough connection between the other alliances to go up agains Goons, CFC. It's just the way it is.

Yep. Why not just justify doing nothing except complaining on forums?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-05-17 19:55:36 UTC
Wait, Wait, wait.
There is NOTHING wrong with Goo being that valuable.
The only mere problem is that there is one big bad bottleneck good (Technetium) and the others aren't worth jack ****.
Rebalance the bottleneck, and all is good.
If you factor the (Moon Goo income - ships lost during structure shootings) / Man-hours used to get and keep moons, it's probably around 2m/h. Perhaps less. Thing is, when 1200 people are doing a 2m/h activity, it nets out as 1.6b/h.
But it's not like an organized structure of 1200 couldn't make so much more ISK.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#107 - 2012-05-17 20:08:27 UTC
GOD. All they have to do is carve out an empire in a place where anyone can shoot you, invest billions in infrastructure, billions more in logistics, and defend all that stuff against every group that decides they're going to try to knock down the biggest kid on the block. It's just FREE ISK, we should take it from them.

I've no great love for the Goons, but this is ridiculous.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#108 - 2012-05-17 20:10:09 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Wait, Wait, wait.
There is NOTHING wrong with Goo being that valuable.
The only mere problem is that there is one big bad bottleneck good (Technetium) and the others aren't worth jack ****.
Rebalance the bottleneck, and all is good.
If you factor the (Moon Goo income - ships lost during structure shootings) / Man-hours used to get and keep moons, it's probably around 2m/h. Perhaps less. Thing is, when 1200 people are doing a 2m/h activity, it nets out as 1.6b/h.
But it's not like an organized structure of 1200 couldn't make so much more ISK.

The problem is 500 people sit on a titan for an hour and it's 1bil...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#109 - 2012-05-17 20:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Pffft. Null should carry more rewards, and even with the tech moons the space is undervalued which is why the null game has cooled so much in the last 3 years. If you wanted to shut up all the people whining about a few controlling the resources the answer is to simply distribute the resource more. It's not like this is news to CCP... adding moon goo to ring mining would be a boon for the null population and would negate the OTEC domination. This isn't news. CCP knows this and they just haven't announced anything concrete about it, or are not actually doing anything about it a'la promising jove or whatever for years. They like to promise a future vision... but whatever. More critically there needs to be unique resources to certain regions of space. Again, This is something everyone knows, both players and CCP, and again something that is rarely discussed and even more rarely given dev attention. I think seeing this exact thread (and any that has "inflation" in it's title) showing up every week is getting old. People have already put forth good solutions and I don't see anything in the works. Brace for more of the same and deal with it is good advice for the rest of 2012.

/bitterthread

btw look in the old forums or on eve search... go waaaaaay back. Some of you talk about the goons invincibility using the exact same words and phrasing that pods used to use with BoB. They turned out to be 'vincible. Nothing lasts forever.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#110 - 2012-05-18 09:34:01 UTC
I'm no part of any null alliance, but in my opinion moongoo must stay. Alliances NEED decent passive income on top of good individual player income, so it can reward their members for alliance operations like taking or defending territory.

The problem however with Tech and such, is because of two more insidious underlying problems:

1. The ease and especially the cost for projection of power is way unbalanced. It allows alliances to form coalitions too powerful to contest with, creating completely safe hinterlands, and they can STILL easily keep boredom-rot away by fighting the neighbors of the neighbors of their neighbors. The cost of jumping and bridging should be increased several orders of magnitude.

2. There is only one way to obtain the materials from moongoo, while there should ALWAYS be at least two way of getting something. One easy way with a limited yield (moons)and one more labor extensive that is not capped and will prevent monopolies getting out of hand.

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