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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Current Caldari Faction War

Author
Nalianna
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-05-24 07:28:40 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Nalianna wrote:
so don't fly them, but if I were to fly for Caldari State, would that be where I would find at least a few like myself that see this as the whole point of EvE?est...


Most likely though I dont know anyone who dutifully sticks to just one races ships.

"I fly Caldari boats since my enemies need a handicap" - Bad Messenger



There are a few of us on both sides that do. I will sit in a Cane or Naga when I am forced, but otherwise I just fly Gallente. There are lots of others the same way. I know Gallente arent the best or most optimal in all situations, but that is kinda part of the fun of it is making non-FOTM ships work. At least for me. It may resuslt in some lol lossmails, but I have found some different fits that work too - or at least kinda work. :)

I guess I am kinda an RPer-light in that regard. Who'da thunk it?

One of my characters is Gallente, quite good up to cruiser, and I can well imagine flying nothing but Gallente ships with her. I don't think Gallente really needs to mix and match, particularly for PvP - they already do most things that a PvPer needs without having to resort to other race's ships or tactics. My Caldari character, on the other hand, is the oldest with the most SP, and almost useless at PvP because of the racial/factional alignment. I am forever trying to figure out how would a true-blue Caldari pilot actually survive in PvP without cutting at least a few corners or making the odd compromise.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2012-05-24 07:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Caldari have great ships. Caracal, Blaster moa, Drake, Merlin, Hookbill, Caracal Navy Issue, Corm. They are all excellent.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#123 - 2012-05-24 10:01:51 UTC
chatgris wrote:


X G is a hardcore RP'er and he does everything possible to find good gallente ships, fits and tactics (even though I think he's generally starting from a significant disadvantage). He's an expert when it comes to gallente ships.


Vexor.. it's the only Gal cruiser.. the rest are just place holders in the tier system. Lol
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#124 - 2012-05-24 10:09:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
X Gallentius wrote:
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
I also cheat, I fly Osprey navy issues and not real ospreys...
I fear the day the Caldari put 2 and 2 together and start flying ONI's like Caracals in medium plexes.


Oh trust me I have corp fits already for those but most of our new guys are still filling out their Drake skills, so I don't want to push them in too many directions at once. ONI is nice ship and I think they would be very nasty in plexes being they are pretty damn fast..


Hrett wrote:
Caldari have great ships. Caracal, Blaster moa, Drake, Merlin, Hookbill, Caracal Navy Issue, Corm. They are all excellent.


Yes but they all take a pretty decent amount of skill points to become competitive with Minmatar ships. Lol

Sure you can make Caracals that can do cool stuff and Corms that hit at 90km and tear everything up in plexes.. However those fits usually take a lot of support skills to make that that effective.

The Merlin (I dunno since the patch) is one of the few Frigs that could stand a chance vs a well skilled Rifter, However to do that you have to have a very high level of skill points. Meanwhile a much lower skill point player in a Rifter, can typically beat a Merlin piloted by the average SP player.

Hookbill also takes a pretty high amount of SPs to be competitive.

Drake is really one of the few ships in the Caldari line up that can still be pretty competitive with lower skill point players.
Lance Shrike
Navigators Group Inc.
#125 - 2012-05-24 10:30:11 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Yes but they all take a pretty decent amount of skill points to become competitive with Minmatar ships. Lol


So, to sum this up - if I would ever want to join the Caldari Militia then it is crucial to have a well-skilled pilot, right? I can understand the point of getting your experience from "beginner" fights, but still I don't want to join up and fly something which is not properly fitted to do the job.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#126 - 2012-05-24 10:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Lance Shrike wrote:
So, to sum this up - if I would ever want to join the Caldari Militia then it is crucial to have a well-skilled pilot, right? I can understand the point of getting your experience from "beginner" fights, but still I don't want to join up and fly something which is not properly fitted to do the job.


Nah, most important things for new people are always:

1) People to fly with
2) Willigness to follow instructions
3) Ability to learn when observing and listening your co-pilots

Do you know how I learned it all? I joined PERVS gang by accident and they gave me an Incursus to take into plexes with them. I didnt even have enough skills back then to have all guns onlined but I was too scared to tell them otherwise. I went with the flow and did what I was told and later asked stuff like "Why it's done like this and why not like this" and I was told things about tracking, transversal, etc. (It's cliched but it's the truth)
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#127 - 2012-05-24 10:57:05 UTC
Lance Shrike wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Yes but they all take a pretty decent amount of skill points to become competitive with Minmatar ships. Lol


So, to sum this up - if I would ever want to join the Caldari Militia then it is crucial to have a well-skilled pilot, right? I can understand the point of getting your experience from "beginner" fights, but still I don't want to join up and fly something which is not properly fitted to do the job.


No.. our corp for example recruits a lot of brand new guys.. It's just we tend to push them into Thrashers and now starting to push them into Ruptures after that. They are easy ships to get guys into and allows lower skill point guys to still be effective.


Nalianna
Perkone
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-05-24 11:49:00 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Lance Shrike wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Yes but they all take a pretty decent amount of skill points to become competitive with Minmatar ships. Lol


So, to sum this up - if I would ever want to join the Caldari Militia then it is crucial to have a well-skilled pilot, right? I can understand the point of getting your experience from "beginner" fights, but still I don't want to join up and fly something which is not properly fitted to do the job.


No.. our corp for example recruits a lot of brand new guys.. It's just we tend to push them into Thrashers and now starting to push them into Ruptures after that. They are easy ships to get guys into and allows lower skill point guys to still be effective.



Hmmm, I have to make an observation - how is this Caldari against anyone else when everyone is just using everyone else's ships? This has been my consternation from day one - I started off Caldari, trained Caldari, learnt Caldari battle tactics (they are quite specific and not really like common PvP) and basicly built Nalianna to be the best tactical Caldari skilled pilot she could be for her SP. Perhaps it's somewhat misplaced, but I've believed for quite some time that maximising these skills and tactics is bound to lead to best exploitation of the ships, modules and weapons available to the "normal" or "traditional" Caldari pilot. Going into Thrashers and Ruptures would mean diverting my training from the highly focussed Caldari training I have followed, basically going back to square one for a lot of things, in order to fly foreign ships with foreign weapons and foreign ewar and tactics.

Somehow it just doesn't seem reasonable. Supposing everyone just flew everyone else's ships, as they mostly do now, anyway. How is that Caldari v Gallente or Minnie v Amarr? The only identification with race is the name of the Militia. I'm reminded of some sort of mercenary arrangement where everyone just fights for whoever without any form of allegiance. Obviously it's only from the perspective of a deeply committed racial/factional pilot that someone would see it this way. What I don't understand is why almost noone else sees things this way - has the dedication to training a single race been so lost in the mists of time that it is now considered quirky or misguided?
DirtyDozen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-05-24 12:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: DirtyDozen
Nalianna wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Lance Shrike wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Yes but they all take a pretty decent amount of skill points to become competitive with Minmatar ships. Lol


So, to sum this up - if I would ever want to join the Caldari Militia then it is crucial to have a well-skilled pilot, right? I can understand the point of getting your experience from "beginner" fights, but still I don't want to join up and fly something which is not properly fitted to do the job.


No.. our corp for example recruits a lot of brand new guys.. It's just we tend to push them into Thrashers and now starting to push them into Ruptures after that. They are easy ships to get guys into and allows lower skill point guys to still be effective.



Hmmm, I have to make an observation - how is this Caldari against anyone else when everyone is just using everyone else's ships? This has been my consternation from day one - I started off Caldari, trained Caldari, learnt Caldari battle tactics (they are quite specific and not really like common PvP) and basicly built Nalianna to be the best tactical Caldari skilled pilot she could be for her SP. Perhaps it's somewhat misplaced, but I've believed for quite some time that maximising these skills and tactics is bound to lead to best exploitation of the ships, modules and weapons available to the "normal" or "traditional" Caldari pilot. Going into Thrashers and Ruptures would mean diverting my training from the highly focussed Caldari training I have followed, basically going back to square one for a lot of things, in order to fly foreign ships with foreign weapons and foreign ewar and tactics.

Somehow it just doesn't seem reasonable. Supposing everyone just flew everyone else's ships, as they mostly do now, anyway. How is that Caldari v Gallente or Minnie v Amarr? The only identification with race is the name of the Militia. I'm reminded of some sort of mercenary arrangement where everyone just fights for whoever without any form of allegiance. Obviously it's only from the perspective of a deeply committed racial/factional pilot that someone would see it this way. What I don't understand is why almost noone else sees things this way - has the dedication to training a single race been so lost in the mists of time that it is now considered quirky or misguided?


It's good to have more options. It's hard to run in an armor fleet unless you want to be primary every time flying a falcon or scorp. Thrashers are superior destroyer and take no time to train. Cross training is important.

When we take on newer players, I encourage them to train amarr as well as their primary( usually caldari or min).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#130 - 2012-05-24 14:39:54 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Vexor.. it's the only Gal cruiser.. the rest are just place holders in the tier system. Lol

I hear the Celestis is a pretty good ship as well. Like the T1 Osprey and T1 Exeqeror, faction and assault frigates are more likely to engage a Celestis than a Vexor.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#131 - 2012-05-24 16:32:44 UTC
Nalianna wrote:
My Caldari character, on the other hand, is the oldest with the most SP, and almost useless at PvP because of the racial/factional alignment. I am forever trying to figure out how would a true-blue Caldari pilot actually survive in PvP without cutting at least a few corners or making the odd compromise.


You are completely wrong here. Caldari can fill every fleet role excellently except joining in with an RR armor BS gang. And then you can still be useful in a sneaky falcon at range, or come in with a cerb at range and drive off enemy falcons (150km missiles ftw).

Look at my killboard, I fly almost exclusively caldari ships except for the thrasher, and I'm probably going to switch to the cormorant like Princess Nexxala (another member of my corporation you can look on the killboards for his success rate in the cormorant) .

Caldari have top tier ships in every single fleet comp except for RR armor BS gangs and alpha gangs (and even in an alpha gang, you can fit for the same tank + range setup, you just won't be as effective for the alpha but you can participate).

So, how to make a pure caldari pilot?

Cormorants -> caracals (or moa if you want to do a blaster gang). Caracal Navy Issue is a beast. -> drake (OP ship in its class IMO) -> naga (great sniping t3, and I've seen it used as an effective blaster boat too) -> armor BS gangs bring a falcon instead for support.

harpy/hawks are decent AF's too. I haven't look into it yet, but I assume the hawk would be nasty with the new fuelled shield boosters.

And the navy hookbill is IMO the best faction (non-pirate) frig there is.
Lance Shrike
Navigators Group Inc.
#132 - 2012-05-24 16:42:14 UTC
^This post made me feel so good as a first time Caldari pilot.
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#133 - 2012-05-24 16:49:19 UTC
Nalianna wrote:
has the dedication to training a single race been so lost in the mists of time that it is now considered quirky or misguided?



Yes.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#134 - 2012-05-24 17:35:28 UTC
Nalianna wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
My character's not "race loyal" in any form. He's a Caldari fighting for the Gallente in Minmatar ships. XP

lol yeah that seems about normal for most of the EVE community. I guess we all start off as one race, decide we want to be another race, and then discover yet another race's ships are better for what we want to do. I have a number of accounts with a variety of different races all so I can experience the whole different racial/factional thing, trying as much as possible to stick with the ships, weapons and tactics of each race but I find it quite hard due to the fact that often the best mix at least for PvP, is a hotchpotch of skills, modules and ships from all four races, which of course not one of my pilots can fly, or at least well. Which is why I was looking for anyplace I could do the real factional warfare thing, complete with correct ships per race, etc. I thought the statement made earlier that most Caldari fleets are shield repped meant it was at least a good bet that I was on the right track, but I'm not sure now.... Still I wouldn't mind giving Caldari Militia a go, if indeed the Caldari side is lacking pilots. Not sure how much of an asset I'd be though... :)

Thanks heaps for the feedback. I'll hang around here for a few more days, see if this is where I need to be.

Yea... I picked Caldari cause I thought the character model looked cool. Was messing around with ships and thought the minnies had the coolest looking. And then my buddy who got me into the game came and got me into his Gallente FW corp, lol.

I think there's quite a few Caldari who stick with Caldari ships. Or at least, there's certain names I've rarely, if ever, seen not in a Caldari ship. Good pilots, too. But yea! The Caldari could certainly use more guns and any extra guns are always good guns.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#135 - 2012-05-24 18:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
Caldari ships are crap, missiles and drake needs a buff

However nothing can defeat the CORMI O DOOM

nom nom

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#136 - 2012-05-24 18:49:41 UTC
chatgris wrote:
And the navy hookbill is IMO the best faction (non-pirate) frig there is.

You can make a decent argument that it's the best faction (including pirate) frig there is as well.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#137 - 2012-05-24 19:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Nalianna wrote:
[quote=Mutnin]
Hmmm, I have to make an observation - how is this Caldari against anyone else when everyone is just using everyone else's ships? This has been my consternation from day one - I started off Caldari, trained Caldari, learnt Caldari battle tactics (they are quite specific and not really like common PvP) and basicly built Nalianna to be the best tactical Caldari skilled pilot she could be for her SP. Perhaps it's somewhat misplaced, but I've believed for quite some time that maximising these skills and tactics is bound to lead to best exploitation of the ships, modules and weapons available to the "normal" or "traditional" Caldari pilot. Going into Thrashers and Ruptures would mean diverting my training from the highly focussed Caldari training I have followed, basically going back to square one for a lot of things, in order to fly foreign ships with foreign weapons and foreign ewar and tactics.

Somehow it just doesn't seem reasonable. Supposing everyone just flew everyone else's ships, as they mostly do now, anyway. How is that Caldari v Gallente or Minnie v Amarr? The only identification with race is the name of the Militia. I'm reminded of some sort of mercenary arrangement where everyone just fights for whoever without any form of allegiance. Obviously it's only from the perspective of a deeply committed racial/factional pilot that someone would see it this way. What I don't understand is why almost noone else sees things this way - has the dedication to training a single race been so lost in the mists of time that it is now considered quirky or misguided?


You aren't starting from square one.. You already have support skills you need. It's nothing to spend 2 & half to 3 weeks to train Small & Med T2 auto & arti's and Cruiser IV to start. Once done, you have ability to use secondary line of ships that also use missile & shield tanks.

People need to get over the fact that they think just because you are in one Militia you have to fly that racial ship line. You think Gals & Minies never use Drakes & Falcons? This line of thinking is why I almost moved to Minmatar to start our corp because I knew it would be much easier to recruit new players that were already flying Minmatar.

We stuck with Caldari because figured would give it a tray but in all honestly pretty much everyone in our corp that has stayed active has been more than willing to train Minmatar ships. You just can't argue that with low skill points Minmatar has the most effective T1 frigs/Dessies & Crusiers..
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-05-24 19:18:59 UTC
Key thing to remember with Caldari.

They are not solo ships they are fleet ships. Eve is not a solo game. You can do it but its meant to be with fleets.

Caldari have the best single line up of fleet ships if stayed all racial.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#139 - 2012-05-24 19:39:55 UTC
Oh come on, Eve is what you make it. Some people just don't have the chops to do solo, but it is still a very rewarding playstyle.

BolsterBomb wrote:
Eve is not a solo game. You can do it but its meant to be with fleets.

nom nom

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#140 - 2012-05-24 19:53:12 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Key thing to remember with Caldari.

They are not solo ships they are fleet ships.


Disagree, caldari ships make excellent solo ships.

- Best agility in class, great for running gatecamps
- Good damage projection, giving you the ability to hit from range and disengage when you inevitably get blobbed (escape is a large component of solo pvp)
- Lots and lots of midslots (ewar becomes less important as the fleet size increases IMO)
- Shields - allows you to hit and run and recharge without having to dock/repair.