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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Current Caldari Faction War

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Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-05-19 05:30:33 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
The over-Incentivisation of plexing is...................1k lp a min or less if you solo.
That's still lower than missions and in deff plexing some times this will lead to getting more LP from ship kills well you lose a plex.


Are you adding the Bonuses to that figure? Level of System Upgrade?


Unless I'm not understanding the way bonuses work, why would they get bonuses in a system the enemy upgraded? It's not like we're getting LP for defensive plexing.
Creslin
DadTZ
#82 - 2012-05-23 06:01:48 UTC
Lock out wrote:
Confirming when we step in 0.0 we fail miserably . Ok, sometimes we really do .


Back on topic, i wouldn't be so skeptical about caldari militia's future. And not because I think the way some ppl want to rebuild it will work, but mostly because some of the new corps that joined seem more willing to deploy heavier fleets even if they do lose. And before some people start raging that I like those cos we farm kills out of them, that's not the case.

I am a strong beliver in the fact that the only way of improving is taking fights, losing them, seeing what you did wrong and then improving from there. About 2 years ago for example, we dropped 6 carriers or so on an RnK fleet (the main fight featured in Ironclad) . We lost about 70 support , mostly bs and 1 carrier (Eddie's epic FCing beeing the only reason for us losing one cap not 6). But we learnt in that 75 minutes of fighting more than in a lifetime of flying BC . We saw how good their Guardians were and started copying their fits, we saw how good triage worked for them and started training for that, etc etc. Same thing when SoT moved in to Tama. We lost about 20 bil worth of ships only in the first week. A month later we were raping their BS fleeet and the triage that went with it (that's when the love story with WBR started) .

Some of the corps that joined Caldari now seem to be pretty much in the same mindset. Take fights, do your best and when you lose, buy another ship and go back at it and don't repeat what you did wrong last time. And long term, that's a winning strategy. Wouldn't be surprised if Templis Dragonaors or Serenity Prime kick our ass six months from now.



To answer the OP... Get your butt in Caldari FW and start joining the fights!

To Lock Out I couldn't agree more with your points. As a corp we are new to FW, we are a null-sec corp and all of the senior leadership has 3-6 years of null sec/pvp experience. It is an incredible learning experience for us and our members and we will never get better until we go out there and learn to fight you. As the main FC for Serenity Prime I can tell you this lock out, I thoroughly enjoy fighting you guys and the challenge you bring. When we dropped your bait Archon we lost a carrier, but in doing so I learned alot about how your corporation and allies fight. It's not the same as null sec and every day we continue going out there, racking up the loss mails and occasionally the kill mails ;). I look forward to many more fights with you and the rest of the Gallente militia and would encourage anyone looking to join FW or specifically the Caldari side to do so. Take some losses, let your members learn and as a corporation have fun in a new environment.

P.S. In 6 months we plan on kicking your ass ;)
FIRST GENERAL
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#83 - 2012-05-23 07:53:05 UTC
Creslin wrote:


P.S. In 6 months we plan on kicking your ass ;)


Best possible attitude. Never lose it and you'll go far. +rep+rep
Arno Gunnarr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-05-23 11:30:14 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Halete wrote:
Damn son, you are just bitter in every thread I see you in.


No, I just refuse to be polite to people who never deserved it.

Pretty easy to do that behind a screen, yeah?

DnD/Shadowfed and friends are too busy shooting Minnies.
no moar love for the Caldari.

Nooblet
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#85 - 2012-05-23 11:38:48 UTC
Arno Gunnarr wrote:
DnD/Shadowfed and friends are too busy shooting Minnies.
no moar love for the Caldari.


Pro-tip: lock them, press f1, profit?
Turkish Waiter
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-05-23 11:46:30 UTC
If you look at the roster of corps currently on the gal side, the only way for caldari to make any headway is for an established pvp corp to join the cause. A new corp will not have room to organically grow within the current mechanics to challenge the established pvp focused corps in the gal militia, which is a shame.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-05-23 14:36:08 UTC
Turkish Waiter wrote:
If you look at the roster of corps currently on the gal side, the only way for caldari to make any headway is for an established pvp corp to join the cause. A new corp will not have room to organically grow within the current mechanics to challenge the established pvp focused corps in the gal militia, which is a shame.



Yes they can. You get better by fighting people that are better than you. For many of us in Gallente militia, we know this and actively seek fights against superior opponents. We've taken fights with some pirate/0.0 corps who handed our ass to us. It really humbles you and makes you improve your game.

Fighting inferior opponents and winning does not make you better. It makes you arrogant and careless. We fought Caldari militia in Okkamon for like 3 hours last night. We were outnumbered and out shipped. We won ever single fight. We knew we shouldn't be taking these fights as on paper we should have been creamed. Did we learn anything? Did we improve anything about ourselves? The answer is no. Did the Caldari? That answer is YES.

.
BjornarGoesToSpace
Vicious Vikings.
#88 - 2012-05-23 18:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: BjornarGoesToSpace
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Cryissa wrote:
Lets hope with incoming changes it will drive people back to it from Caldari...


Why would it? Winning side gets 4-16 times the isk payout compared to losing side. I mean, if I offered you a job and said you can choose your salary. Either 2000e/month or 10000e/month, which one you would pick?

Because it would make you a ****.
Only reason im in minmatar is because i know people here.

I dont understand why everyone think the amarr will get it so much worse PvE wise. Amarr LPs will be worth ALOT more than minmatar LP's.
Obviously minmatar LP's are easier to get(wrong, i meant that minm stuff will be cheaper LP wise), but i think it will even out at least to some degree.

If there is anything i feel bad about its coming in this late, alot of minmatars have put in countless hours in getting the advantage they have now.

TL;DR:
When i joined RvB i joined blue since they had the least members.
That is what people should do with FW, join the side that is struggling the most in your timezone.
Anything else will wreck the millitia more

Join Red Federation or Blue Republic for non-stop PvP :)
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#89 - 2012-05-23 19:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Andre Vauban wrote:
Turkish Waiter wrote:
If you look at the roster of corps currently on the gal side, the only way for caldari to make any headway is for an established pvp corp to join the cause. A new corp will not have room to organically grow within the current mechanics to challenge the established pvp focused corps in the gal militia, which is a shame.



Yes they can. You get better by fighting people that are better than you. For many of us in Gallente militia, we know this and actively seek fights against superior opponents. We've taken fights with some pirate/0.0 corps who handed our ass to us. It really humbles you and makes you improve your game.

Fighting inferior opponents and winning does not make you better. It makes you arrogant and careless. We fought Caldari militia in Okkamon for like 3 hours last night. We were outnumbered and out shipped. We won ever single fight. We knew we shouldn't be taking these fights as on paper we should have been creamed. Did we learn anything? Did we improve anything about ourselves? The answer is no. Did the Caldari? That answer is YES.


That's because the bulk of Cal Militia still insists on flying Moas & Caracals for plex fighting instead of ships that would actually win fights. The rest being a random assortment of badly fit ships with the occasional proper fits.

It's not big secret that Ruptures, & Thoraxs or Vexors as you had that time are going to spank the living hell out of Moas, Caracals and the occasional Rupture.

You guys are a single corp that can put out a gang close to what all those mixed corps brought. You have advantage of being able to get all your guys on same page with ships/gang set up to work together. Meanwhile you fought a bunch of guys from random corps flying everything under the sun with no unified fleet concept.

Until Caldari learns that fleets need to consist of more than "just bring what you can".. then I suspect they wont learn enough.Its nice to see Caldari is finally getting some numbers but it would be nicer to see them actually fielding those numbers in proper gangs.

It's not just your corp that can do this but you gals have multiple other single corps that can field more numbers than the average gang Caldari can put together. It's no big surprise or nothing new that randomly put together gangs die horrible to gangs from single corps that have flown together for a long time.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#90 - 2012-05-23 19:26:59 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
That's because the bulk of Cal Militia still insists on flying Moas & Caracals for plex fighting instead of ships that would actually win fights. The rest being a random assortment of badly fit ships with the occasional proper fits.

It's not big secret that Ruptures, & Thoraxs or Vexors as you had that time are going to spank the living hell out of Moas, Caracals and the occasional Rupture.

You guys are a single corp that can put out a gang close to what all those mixed corps brought. You have advantage of being able to get all your guys on same page with ships/gang set up to work together. Meanwhile you fought a bunch of guys from random corps flying everything under the sun with no unified fleet concept.

Until Caldari learns that fleets need to consist of more than "just bring what you can".. then I suspect they wont learn enough.Its nice to see Caldari is finally getting some numbers but it would be nicer to see them actually fielding those numbers in proper gangs.
Thanks for sh**ing on your own militia. Saves me the trouble of typing up some sort of propoganda wall of text to demoralize your troops.

Attitude reflects leadership.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#91 - 2012-05-23 19:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
X Gallentius wrote:
Thanks for sh**ing on your own militia. Saves me the trouble of typing up some sort of propoganda wall of text to demoralize your troops.

Attitude reflects leadership.


Sometimes they have to be told bluntly why they are failing. I've tried multiple times going through the back channels to get CEOs to get their guys flying proper ships. If the CEOs/leadership aren't gonna work on it, then the only hope is to tell the grunts on the field why they continue to smash face against walls and hope the change can come from the ground up..

Demoralizing troops comes just as much, when they continue to die over and over not understanding why they aren't winning more fights. It's simple fly the ships needed to get the job done and the job has a better chance of being completed.

That kind of Demoralizing troops causes them to give up and not come back.. Me telling them they are flying bad fleet comps just makes them not like me worst case or perhaps makes them understand why they aren't winning more fights. I can live with them not liking me, I like small gang pvp anyway. Blink
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#92 - 2012-05-23 19:52:47 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
That's because the bulk of Cal Militia still insists on flying Moas & Caracals for plex fighting instead of ships that would actually win fights. The rest being a random assortment of badly fit ships with the occasional proper fits.

It's not big secret that Ruptures, & Thoraxs or Vexors as you had that time are going to spank the living hell out of Moas, Caracals and the occasional Rupture.


Here you're very wrong. IMO, Caracals are the best medium plex gang fighting ships short of pirate/faction. One day I'd love to get a gang of nanocals into a medium plex against a bunch of thorax's and ruptures and especially vexors.

Take a look at okkamon last night in a gang fight: In the short time my little "useless" t1 caracal did

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439264 -- top damage to a cane
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439268 -- top damage by a wide margin to a thorax
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439239 -- barely second top damage dealer to an oracle
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439270 -- still doing respectable damage though a 4th against a navy omen

And there's only one kill against a hawk where I didn't even have a chance to hit it before it died in my caracal that I omitted.

Apart from the above, I'm not even omitting any mails where I did ****** (in a caracal, before that I was in a pretty useless ship).

Also, look back at probably the most effective plex fighting force in the history of the caldari militia, the PERVS. They absolutely RAPED with a doctrine of caracals in plexes.

I for one am jealous that you get so many recruits naturally with caldari ship skills. They are far, far more useful for gangs than the blaster pilots gallente naturally get.
DirtyDozen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-05-23 19:55:03 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
That's because the bulk of Cal Militia still insists on flying Moas & Caracals for plex fighting instead of ships that would actually win fights. The rest being a random assortment of badly fit ships with the occasional proper fits.

It's not big secret that Ruptures, & Thoraxs or Vexors as you had that time are going to spank the living hell out of Moas, Caracals and the occasional Rupture.

You guys are a single corp that can put out a gang close to what all those mixed corps brought. You have advantage of being able to get all your guys on same page with ships/gang set up to work together. Meanwhile you fought a bunch of guys from random corps flying everything under the sun with no unified fleet concept.

Until Caldari learns that fleets need to consist of more than "just bring what you can".. then I suspect they wont learn enough.Its nice to see Caldari is finally getting some numbers but it would be nicer to see them actually fielding those numbers in proper gangs.
Thanks for sh**ing on your own militia. Saves me the trouble of typing up some sort of propoganda wall of text to demoralize your troops.

Attitude reflects leadership.


I wouldn't call it shi**ing on the troops. The truth hurts...
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-05-23 20:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hail Goddess
Seems Cal milltia is in need of some space perverts = ) A fleet of 20 Caracals with some gallente recon support can do massive damage to 20 shield-Hurricanes with autocannons. Not many vessels can match the effectiveness of Caldari missile-ships sub-battlecruisers in fleets.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#95 - 2012-05-23 20:10:18 UTC
chatgris wrote:

Here you're very wrong. IMO, Caracals are the best medium plex gang fighting ships short of pirate/faction. One day I'd love to get a gang of nanocals into a medium plex against a bunch of thorax's and ruptures and especially vexors.

Take a look at okkamon last night in a gang fight: In the short time my little "useless" t1 caracal did

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439264 -- top damage to a cane
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439268 -- top damage by a wide margin to a thorax
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439239 -- barely second top damage dealer to an oracle
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439270 -- still doing respectable damage though a 4th against a navy omen

Don't let Damar see this post. He might post with some righteous anger. To be fair, the art of the sniping AML Caracal has been lost over time and I for one am glad. Big smile
Arno Gunnarr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2012-05-23 20:12:59 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Arno Gunnarr wrote:
DnD/Shadowfed and friends are too busy shooting Minnies.
no moar love for the Caldari.


Pro-tip: lock them, press f1, profit?

No, really?

They got their asses kicked Monday night, even tackled/killed an Amarr freighter.
So yeah, we profited.

Nooblet
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-05-23 20:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: BolsterBomb
For the record Mutnin has a place in my heart <3 however he can be a bit to blunt and at times debbi downer. Yes I told you last night night to be negative nancy.

Ok so I will give a full report of the state of the Caldari. Things are changing and for the better:

As we stand today Caldari has successfully done the following:

Combined onto 1 comms server

Combined Intel Channels to Use 1 Channel

Successfully fielded a 60 man fleet

Successfully flying mixed corp fleets

Successfully implemented a militia wide strategy to prevent gals from taking systems and on how to push a system.

Successfully prevented the Gallente from taking anymore systems prior to patch (except for aivonen which was just crap imo, ninjad)

The Gals may "sheet" on our changes and call them laughable but these are fundamental building blocks to move a militia forward. You cannot expect a militia overnight to turn around.

We have the numbers and we have "enough" (Id like more) FCs to lead now we will be working on unified fleet doctrines. I give it a month or two before the Gals are scared to bring their caps out to play.

I am very happy with the state of the militia from when I entered. A lot of success


Ninja Edit:

Asking for people to fly uniform ships when two weeks ago they wouldn't even fly together is a bit much to ask. I am more for presenting solutions instead of problems without an answer. As such any Cal CEO seeing this should expect mail in the next day or two.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#98 - 2012-05-23 20:25:00 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:


Unless I'm not understanding the way bonuses work, why would they get bonuses in a system the enemy upgraded? It's not like we're getting LP for defensive plexing.

Because of system upgrades, Minnies are currently getting 12.5k LP/minor plex - for any offensive plex anywhere - whereas Gallente are currently receiving 10k LP/minor plex (or something on that order). Upgrades also help LP payouts in missions and kills - no matter where they occur.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#99 - 2012-05-23 20:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
chatgris wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
That's because the bulk of Cal Militia still insists on flying Moas & Caracals for plex fighting instead of ships that would actually win fights. The rest being a random assortment of badly fit ships with the occasional proper fits.

It's not big secret that Ruptures, & Thoraxs or Vexors as you had that time are going to spank the living hell out of Moas, Caracals and the occasional Rupture.


Here you're very wrong. IMO, Caracals are the best medium plex gang fighting ships short of pirate/faction. One day I'd love to get a gang of nanocals into a medium plex against a bunch of thorax's and ruptures and especially vexors.

Take a look at okkamon last night in a gang fight: In the short time my little "useless" t1 caracal did

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439264 -- top damage to a cane
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439268 -- top damage by a wide margin to a thorax
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439239 -- barely second top damage dealer to an oracle
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13439270 -- still doing respectable damage though a 4th against a navy omen

And there's only one kill against a hawk where I didn't even have a chance to hit it before it died in my caracal that I omitted.

Apart from the above, I'm not even omitting any mails where I did ****** (in a caracal, before that I was in a pretty useless ship).

Also, look back at probably the most effective plex fighting force in the history of the caldari militia, the PERVS. They absolutely RAPED with a doctrine of caracals in plexes.

I for one am jealous that you get so many recruits naturally with caldari ship skills. They are far, far more useful for gangs than the blaster pilots gallente naturally get.


A Caracal; doing ok vs some random target doesn't mean the Caracal is still not a bad choice for what & how they are trying to use them.

1st off that Cane had crap for tank. The Thorax also was badly tanked and was missing mods in the lows. The Oracle was obviously jamed & damped out or your Caracal would of been dead with maybe 2 or 3 shots from his Pulse lasers if he was half competent.

The key here being you had the other ships to allow the Caracal to live and not die horribly. The Caracal was an irrelevant ship , because with out the jamming & damps you would of been dead or forced away.. (any of the frigs could of soloed him though)

Top damage doesn't tell the tale of what happened in a fight.. Maybe you were shooting at it before everyone else.. maybe the other guys were out of range or not shooting primaries or vice versa. Regardless top damage on a single kill or two does not win fights.

Winning fights is a combination of having the proper skills, ships, FCing, organization, luck and being better than your target. The chances of winning fights go up the more of these you can bring into your gangs. Why tie your hands behind your back if you don't need to?

I'm sure someone can come up with some ******** Caracal gang fit that could do crazy things in plexes.. Like maybe HMLs & damps or something. The key being if they did that, it would mean they were working as a "group" using gang fits to work as a team, rather than bring what ever you have relying on nothing more than blob to win.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#100 - 2012-05-23 20:29:03 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Ok so I will give a full report of the state of the Caldari. Things are changing and for the better:

...

We have the numbers and we have "enough" (Id like more) FCs to lead now we will be working on unified fleet doctrines. I give it a month or two before the Gals are scared to bring their caps out to play.

I am very happy with the state of the militia from when I entered. A lot of success



Congrats!

If and when you achieve the "Gals are scared to bring their caps out to play goal", I do ask that you please remember those of us who aren't fond of cap warfare and still come to fight our crappy t1 ships in plexes :).