Ships & Modules

Ask CCP ytterbium about "balancing" frigates to have even less cap than they do currently.

Also, they rarely have to give anything up because ACs have ridiculously low fitting. Also...best tracking guns so if you kite out of neut range you're boned as your transversal will be too low. Ohhhh and best speed to make sure they can get you into neut range lulz.

And to the people saying you can kite out of neut range with frigs...seriously you guys high, the kiting frigs usually have only prop + disruptor and almost all cruiser sized guns can hit out to point range, where your transversal is lower and your sig bloom essentially makes you a cruiser, a glancing blow will kill you.

The idea that it's balanced because you can fit a nos or cap booster to counter it is pretty funny. There's nothing useful you can put in a utility hislot other than neuts. One medium and one small neut on a cane, for example, gives you the ability to **** on frigates (and is very useful against certain fits of the same size class) for very little opportunity cost.

Hell, on many ships (cane included) you can fit two small neuts for the total cost of 20 CPU and basically-zero powergrid..when staggered, they will cycle as often as a small nos (pretty much negating that as a counter), and drop most frigs' cap rather quickly.

Let's compare neuts to another module that dicks over frigates - webs. I'd say webs are a great analogy as they are mostly useful against ships smaller than you, but also have great utility against ships within your size class (much like neuts). Webs cost, at the minimum, 20 CPU. For T2, it's 30. More than double the cost of a small neut, and triple in the case of a t2 web. Medium neuts are 20 CPU, which is better, but still below webs (though these do eat a nontrivial amount of PG).

Most importantly, a web eats a midslot. By fitting a web you are sacrificing any number of great midslot modules like cap boosters, TDs, or tank (if a shield tanked ship). Many ships don't fit webs for that reason. However, I know of no cruiser and larger ships with utility hislots that do not fit neuts.

They are, in effect, free modules. They're extremely effective against even ships that sacrifice fittings to counter them - just marginally less so. Flying any frigate hull into PVP with larger ships with a cap-intensive fit is just suicide.


The best way to fix this would be to create other options for utility hislot mods. Right now, there are none. Either you put a neut in it or you put an offline salvager or something. Not putting a neut in your utility hislot is a wasted slot.

Then, nos and neut fittings should be swapped.

That would probably do it.

We should wait for the reworked Cap Batteries which will come with the next release. According the CCP they will target this issue by providing some defensive measures against NOS and Neutralizers.

webbs-supper bad for ANYTHING
Scramms-super bad for ANYTHING
ECM-likely to work Vs. ANYTHING
Target painters- make ANYTHING way quicker to kill
Turret disruptors-keeps ANYTHING big from properly hitting a frigate
Damps-hard for a ANYTHING to lock on a Frigate in less time than required for the next Ice Age to come and go.
Long points-easy for a Frigate to tackle ANYTHING outside neut range.
Nuet/NOS-shut down ANYTHING

The point is that Winmatard ships have the advantage of not being as cap dependent as other races

Again, capless guns with passive fit, base speed higher of all races, how much do you think this will affect Minmatar ships?

I'd not say nothing, but I'm sure it will not make a big difference anyway as soon as numbers start showing on grid.

Tank can be remote with logis, cap doesn't really matter, it only need some cap to ab/mwd to target then it's numbers game and at this believe me or not Minmatar will always be superior to any other race unless our sun becomes a supernova, witch is not for tomorrow.

I too wish all races were the same. Oh wait....

So deal with it! Get some webs of your own, and catch the damn thing. All that speed comes at a cost of toughness. Or outrange them. Or TD them. While I agree that the the balance of utility high slots was probably not foremost in the dev's brain, I think the root of the problem is that you can't fit anything else there besides what, a DLA? A Smartbomb? No wonder people have taken to using the only effective non-weapon module that subcaps can fit in a highslot.

This has what to do with neuts?

Just for the protocol there are solutions for being neutralized:
a) Lasor-Amarr don't need much cargo hold for ammunition... so if you are worried to be neutralized load some cap booster chargers and fit NOS. Amarr frigates which have only two slots are dedicated kiting ships, so no risk to run into neutralization range.
b) Rocket-Amarr only need cap for moving around and armor rep... similar to armor Minmatar ships.

c) Galente: have strong drones, and they work without cap and even if ecmed. For the remaining issues get cap booster charges or NOS.

d) Missile-Caldari: Passive Shield Tank and cap less ammo and LONG RANGE... why don't you call them WinCaldari?
e) Rail-Caldari: Are all sniper ships... no risk to get neutralized.

f) Shield-Minmatar: yeah like Caldari Missile-Caldari... but very close range so much risk of being webbed and neutralized. And since Minmatar have less of everyting except speed they are dead once they get slow.
g) Armor-Minmatar: no cap results in no tank...

As you see... there are many different flavours and solution and this is good so, it adds spice to the game. So just adapt and stop crying.