EVE General Discussion

facts =/= overconfidence

We won, it's just a matter of staying together

WHY ?

High-sec doesn't really notice them.

Jita was nothing more then a weekend of well fun for those that showed up.

Hulkegeddon's ? well the last I checked the Goon's where not the only ones involved, I don't even think they have made a majority of the kills.

Low-sec - not sure they have done anything to low-sec, nothing more then any other alliance.
H-Space - same.

0.0 - Well about a year ago or is it 2 now, Goon's were sweating when the north collapsed.
I remember a lot of screaming about super capitals being out of balance back then when Goon's did not hold the majority and could have been run over. Some politics later and a crying campaign and the crisis was over for them.

They are not really a threat there either, I don't think any alliance is foolish enough to try and take and hold 0.0.

0.0 is pretty much in a stalemate right now, expect that to change come fall, everyone builds during the summer months as people go out and enjoy the sun.

So in short nobody cares enough about Goon's to get rid of them.

Anyone who is against anyone else who plays the game to the best of their ability and to the means they desire, -without complaining-, is an enemy of mine and will be descended upon by my poorly fit Tengus,

A big issue is the way alliance level income and other Sov mechanics have changed since GSF and the current major powers rose to prominence.

When GSF got its start, alliances generally started in lowsec taking R64s which were geographically spread out and difficult to defend (due to the lack of power projection [carriers were rare at this time]). After taking some R64s in Lowsec or NPC null, Alliances could begin to fund an attack on a smaller alliance, taking more R64s and so on and so forth. Eventually an alliance could work its way up into a major power. In addition, the smaller sizes of alliances meant that timezone coverage was harder and it was harder to keep important fights in your primetime (POSes could be kited or mis-stronted). In addition, R64s provided a less concentrated and less valuable income source (each moon was less valuable, but there are more of them).

Currently there is a sharp divide between the 3 kinds of Sov Holding Nullsec alliances.

Tech holding alliances (GSF, PL, etc) have a spectacular income to the point where they can easily replace almost any fleet combat losses, preventing attrition from having meaningful effect on the wallet balance (Tech income is much larger than R64 income ever was). They have also been in place long enough to have enormous capital and supercapital resources.

Renting alliances (SOLAR, old RA, etc) have a similarly spectacular income, but depend on having large tracts of defensible space to rent out, along with continued good PR to keep renters happy. Attrition isn't a problem to these alliances so long as they don't lose too many important, visible battles. These alliances also have enormous capital and supercapital resources, but as their income is more easily disrupted, they will be fielded less often if they start losing battles.

Finally there are Renter alliances. They don't fight. They're not the way to become powerful, but they can cause trouble if they get big enough that they would be difficult to evict (see IRC). So they can disrupt Renting alliances.

Small, upstart alliances can't begin by taking Tech, because each and every moon is valuable enough to launch a stiff defense for it. They can't begin by renting, because they don't have any significant amount of space. Finally, they can't really begin by renting, because people who join renter alliances aren't looking to become spacelords, they just want to rat/mine in peace.

Both Tech and Renter alliances can be disrupted and collapse (NC and RA), but the void will be filled by existing powers rather than small, new ones.

So, without a way to slowly grow and without income sources that are not individually worth defending mightily, new alliances don't really have a way to grow and take space, and while the only way to hurt existing space holders is to win fights (holding the field matters, not the ISK war), the patented Goonswarm Rifters-to-Sovereignty plan no longer works. In addition, while forming an alliance where individuals pay for their combat losses themselves is possible, it's not realistic, even if your morale can handle it, players need time to make money and that takes time away from an offensive campaign.

Mind you, this isn't Goonswarm's fault. It's CCP's fault for ravaging the pooch on the R64 nerf, and CCP's fault for introducing Supercarriers and Titans, assuming that cost can be a balancing factor in a game where Pilots, not materials, are the limiting factor in fleet composition.

Edit:
The biggest problem with this situation is that even if CCP fixes the roots of the problem, it'll take a very long time to resolve the situation into something where new alliances can grow and thrive.

Remove Sanshas from incursions and insert Goons

yeah because thousands of people hold their breath for the outcome of a small gang fight that takes place outside of jove space

Squashing goons is like squashing a turd, it doesnt go away, it sticks to everything and smears around.

Best to keep it all in one place.

I try not to antagonize the Goons. Maybe because, well they are the largest single united group of players in the game.
Not a good idea to be bad enemies with 8K plus players, plus whatever allies they have.

I support all your highsec ganking

Designing the hexagramanon of doom.

Forming a fleet?