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Why are High-Sec Miners a "threat to EVE"?
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Selene Theron
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-05-14 09:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Selene Theron
Its all about the isk.

Buy minerals when prices are low, then gank the Hsec miners in Hulkageddon. Miners are scared to undock thus less minerals on the market and then sell the same minerals for a higher price, voila, instant profit.

That's all.
Lexmana
#22 - 2012-05-14 10:41:09 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-05-14 11:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Lexmana wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.


Explain why there are Freighters with massive tank. They are Industrials and not combat ships.

Give the Hulk some more tank already.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-14 11:07:34 UTC
EDIT: Double-whammy!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-14 11:11:01 UTC
Quote:
Why are High-Sec Miners a "threat to EVE"?


They aren't. People want giggles and miners are a soft target.
Sandra Vellocet
Extended Industries
#26 - 2012-05-14 11:16:31 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.


Explain why there are Freighters with massive tank. They are Industrials and not combat ships.

Give the Hulk some more tank already.


This won't help unless you give the hulk a massive tank boost which would be stupid, miners would be using hulks to mine in low sec etc. Gankers will just adapt and use bigger smarter cheap fits to suicide gank miners
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-05-14 11:19:13 UTC
Sandra Vellocet wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.


Explain why there are Freighters with massive tank. They are Industrials and not combat ships.

Give the Hulk some more tank already.


This won't help unless you give the hulk a massive tank boost which would be stupid, miners would be using hulks to mine in low sec etc. Gankers will just adapt and use bigger smarter cheap fits to suicide gank miners


All I'm saying is that the "They're not combat ships!"-excuse is pure weapons grade B.S.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-14 11:20:15 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.


Explain why there are Freighters with massive tank. They are Industrials and not combat ships.

Give the Hulk some more tank already.


You know if you fit your hulk with shield extenders, some kind of resists and a DC it'll have a much better chance of not dieing?
That's rather than the average setup I see in loss mails of "cargo expander rigs, 2x mining upgrades and **** all in the mids"


As for the why,

Lets imagine there is only 1 miner in eve and he can fill all the requirements for 3 people who are building ships.
Lets imagine that there are only 2 people in game building ships and you have lots and lots of money.
1) buy up all that excess ore that the miner is getting of a period of time, say, a yeah.
2) when your money runs low start killing the miner over and over again.
3) ore that the 2 producers have runs out
4) drop your ore on the market for whatever crazy amount of isk you want
5) when you're out of ore, stop killing the miner and revert to step 1

wouldn't that be a neat way of making money?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#29 - 2012-05-14 11:22:46 UTC
Sandra Vellocet wrote:
This won't help unless you give the hulk a massive tank boost which would be stupid, miners would be using hulks to mine in low sec etc. Gankers will just adapt and use bigger smarter cheap fits to suicide gank miners


Perish the thought of miners actually mining in low sec Shocked

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Lexmana
#30 - 2012-05-14 11:23:50 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.


Explain why there are Freighters with massive tank. They are Industrials and not combat ships.

Give the Hulk some more tank already.

Freighters are huge ships. That is why you need some fire power to bring it down but they have no where near the tank of combat ship the same size (i.e. carriers). Hulks are small flimsy ships but you can get 81% of the yield with 6x the tank in a Rokh if you want. It is your choice to be stupid. Or smart. Whatever rocks your boat.
Didier Nardieu
Tux factory
#31 - 2012-05-14 11:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Didier Nardieu
Lot of player think the high sec minerals come from the miners but its false the major part come from mission loot recycling... kill miner is just a question of killboard. When you talk about killboard isk its more easy to kill an hulk and have near 500m isk than kill a powerfull bs.
Power guys with bad killboard just rebalance it with mining barge killing thats really simple.

After some try to talk about threat, warning, etc..... but in fact the only reason is the killboard and for some strong ally like Goons its to manipulate the market. Poor guys who challenge in hulkaggeddon havent understang it deserve himself but you cant explain that to a poor guys who cant afford real pvp against combat ship !

And please miners stop allways complaining like null sec player, its just boring allways the same type of posts in this forum....
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-05-14 11:39:12 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Well, about Hulks needing more tank: they are between cruisers and battle-cruisers in size, and they have less tank than most cruisers, less fitting than a cruiser (most notably the power grid), and their design role is to be sitting ducks. There is no way to protect them using an escort fleet since the attackers will just go straight for the Hulk. I'd be quite happy with current fittings, but better agility or a much lower maximum speed.

But CONCORD is just fine as I'm sure you'll agree.

You do know hulks are industrial ships and not combat vessels right? If you want better tank there are plenty of other options even for mining (i.e. battleships). And if your fleet to protect your hulks just leave highsec.


Explain why there are Freighters with massive tank. They are Industrials and not combat ships.

Give the Hulk some more tank already.

Freighters are huge ships. That is why you need some fire power to bring it down but they have no where near the tank of combat ship the same size (i.e. carriers). Hulks are small flimsy ships but you can get 81% of the yield with 6x the tank in a Rokh if you want. It is your choice to be stupid. Or smart. Whatever rocks your boat.


Because Battleships were totally intended to be the main mining platform in EVE, right? The very fact that you have to use Battleships rather than ORE Barges/Exhumers just proves how...wrong.. the whole situation is.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#33 - 2012-05-14 11:41:03 UTC
Miners - whiners - what is the diff....? 99% of the miners in high-sec are stupid. They rarely tank their ****. They are the least intelligent lot of the player base. They have tons of info on how not to get popped and instead of reading them - they wipe their arses with them. So yea...pop them, take their stuff, and let devil sort it out.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#34 - 2012-05-14 11:43:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Many miners don't like EVE's core design philosophy of Risk&Effort vs. Reward. They'd rather want single-player risks and efforts for themselves, combined with multiplayer rewards. Most of them are just too dumb to see how this would break the game.

The worst min-maxers in the game are mostly miners, sacrificing safety and ridiculous amounts of money just to squeeze out a few percent more yield, and then being outraged when the game throws them a curveball.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#35 - 2012-05-14 11:48:07 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:

Because Battleships were totally intended to be the main mining platform in EVE, right? The very fact that you have to use Battleships rather than ORE Barges/Exhumers just proves how...wrong.. the whole situation is.


How do you think people mined before the Barges were released? You think they actually used "Mining Cruisers?"

Anyway, the Battleship is an *option* that you can take if the *risk* of mining in a Hulk is to high to compensate for the *reward* of 20% more mining yield. You don't have to use anything, you can mine in a Velator if that jerks your chicken.

Options, Risk, Reward. Sounds like EvE to me.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-14 11:49:22 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Many miners don't like EVE's core design philosophy of Risk&Effort vs. Reward. They'd rather want single-player risks and efforts, for themselves combined with multiplayer rewards. Most of them are just too dumb to see how this would break the game.


How is that exclusive to miners?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Lexmana
#37 - 2012-05-14 11:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Tor Gungnir wrote:
[Because Battleships were totally intended to be the main mining platform in EVE, right? The very fact that you have to use Battleships rather than ORE Barges/Exhumers just proves how...wrong.. the whole situation is.

No. You are wrong. A smart player tries to use the best equipment for the job at all times. That is not only based on yield or efficiency or you would se a lot more Marauders ratting in insecure nullsec. You also need to factor in security.

If you feel you are safe enough to make risking an expensive ship for max efficiency worth it. Then, by all means, do so. But if you are not in safe space or have enough protection for your expensive equipment then you better choose another alternative. Luckily, in EVE you actually have a choice. It is all up to you. And sometimes a Rokh is the best equipment for the job. And sometimes it is the Hulk.

And by the way, don't fly what you can't afford to lose!
Sandra Vellocet
Extended Industries
#38 - 2012-05-14 11:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sandra Vellocet
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Miners - whiners - what is the diff....? 99% of the miners in high-sec are stupid. They rarely tank their ****. They are the least intelligent lot of the player base. They have tons of info on how not to get popped and instead of reading them - they wipe their arses with them. So yea...pop them, take their stuff, and let devil sort it out.


Tobiaz wrote:
Many miners don't like EVE's core design philosophy of Risk&Effort vs. Reward. They'd rather want single-player risks and efforts, for themselves combined with multiplayer rewards. Most of them are just too dumb to see how this would break the game.


Actually I think there are more people such as yourself whining about how miners are going to "break the game"
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-05-14 11:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Lexmana wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
[Because Battleships were totally intended to be the main mining platform in EVE, right? The very fact that you have to use Battleships rather than ORE Barges/Exhumers just proves how...wrong.. the whole situation is.

No. You are wrong. A smart player tries to use the best equipment for the job at all times. That is not only based on yield or efficiency or you would se a lot more Marauders ratting in insecure nullsec. You also need to factor in security.


The point is that a dedicated mining ship should be the best equipment for the job. Otherwise, what's the point? Because of the low tank and increasing dickwad attitude towards miners, the ORE ships are glaringly unbalanced.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Lexmana
#40 - 2012-05-14 12:02:28 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
[Because Battleships were totally intended to be the main mining platform in EVE, right? The very fact that you have to use Battleships rather than ORE Barges/Exhumers just proves how...wrong.. the whole situation is.

No. You are wrong. A smart player tries to use the best equipment for the job at all times. That is not only based on yield or efficiency or you would se a lot more Marauders ratting in insecure nullsec. You also need to factor in security.


The point is that a dedicated mining ship should be the best equipment for the job. Otherwise, what's the point? Because of the low tank and increasing dickwad attitude towards miners, the ORE ships are glaringly unbalanced.

You didn't even read what you quoted right?