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I have reached a decision on whether to reimburse the overpaid ransom.

James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
#1 - 2012-05-14 01:37:52 UTC
This weekend a controversial incident occurred in which I asked an orca pilot to pay a 90 million isk ransom and he sent me 900 million instead. Since he failed to pay what I asked, I was forced to kill his orca, the hulk he had parked alongside, and his pod, with damages totaling over 2 billion isk. However, he insisted that overpayment of a ransom should count as paying it, and we engaged in an extended discussion about whether my actions were honourable, and whether some reparations should be paid.

Since I was not aware of any custom or precedent establishing the idea that overpayments satisfy ransom demands, the miner and I agreed the matter should be brought before his peers on this forum. He created a thread describing what occurred (found here) and opened the floor to the general public to weigh in on the situation. Upon request, evidence of the incident including API-verified killmails and screenshots were provided.

The debate in that thread has wound down, and I believe it has served its purpose. I have created this thread to avoid the outcome being buried in pages of previous replies, and to serve as a reference point for future use: I believe this is the first time the issue has been raised, so we're establishing some precedent here.

The options presented me were essentially as follows:

A. Keep everything, pay the miner nothing.
B. Return the excess ransom (900m - 90m each for the orca and hulk).
C. Return the excess ransom and reimburse the miner for the value of the ships/pod that should have been let go.

Before I announce my verdict, I would like to address the concerns of some cynical players who believe that I never intended to reimburse the miner, and that this is some kind of "show trial." Let me be clear. I value my honour above all else. I am among those who believe that one's actions in EVE reflect upon one's real-life character, and aside from stealing 30 billion in the Currin Trading scam I have always sought to maintain the highest level of integrity and fairness throughout my EVE career. When my reputation is on the line, and when people question my commitment to the code of Bushido, I take it as seriously as a heart attack.

Therefore, I want to stress that I did not come to this decision lightly. I gave this a lot of thought, and I am well aware that since this is a matter of first impression (to my knowledge), my decision here will have an impact on the future conduct of space piracy. To that end, I will provide a detailed justification for my verdict.

Without further ado, my judgment is as follows:

I have decided to keep all of the isk, and I will not reimburse the miner for any of the losses he incurred when I destroyed his ships/implants.

Again, I would like to caution readers against assuming that I am being guided by selfishness or the desire to grief. This is not a case of "because I said so"; I believe one's actions should always be guided by enlightened reason. My verdict is based upon four separate grounds, which are as follows:

#1. Public opinion. The miner and I agreed that we would put this issue to the forum. While some posters expressed a feeling that reimbursement was appropriate, the majority felt I should keep the isk and destroy a miner's ship regardless of whether he paid a ransom. A persuasive case was made by some that the miner was tempting fate by mining during Hulkageddon, and that his orca was fail-fit.

#2. Failure to follow instructions. I specifically demanded the miner pay me a ransom of 90 million isk for each ship. He did not follow that instruction. Although the miner claimed it was a mistake, I gave him ample time to correct his mistake when I asked him again to send me the proper amount. It was only after he refused that I killed his ships and podded him.

#3. Mathematical destiny. When a ship is destroyed, its modules (aside from rigs) have a 50% chance of dropping. Over the years, I have noticed that the "drop lottery" has tended to disfavor me. For some reason, it seems that the more valuable mods tend not to drop. Just a couple weeks ago, I killed a hulk with a faction invulnerability field worth about 400 million. Do you think it dropped? Of course not. But according to the law of large numbers, I shouldn't expect this kind of bad luck to continue. When the miner sent me 900 million by mistake, this was most likely an act of fate, balancing out all of my bad luck from before. I am therefore entitled to the isk.

#4. Highsec miners must all be destroyed. As I explained in my recent manifestos, highsec miners pose an existential threat to EVE. By endlessly demanding nerfs to highsec violence and redistributing wealth from nullsec, the miners have caused extraordinary damage to EVE. If they are allowed to continue nerfing non-consensual PvP, they will remove EVE's central purpose, and CCP will go out of business. To save EVE from that fate, we must reduce the power of the carebears by reducing their numbers, and this is accomplished by making highsec mining less profitable--by causing economic damage to the miners and increasing the risk of their profession. The simple fact is that the miner I killed was caught red-handed taking ore from a belt in highsec. It may not be against the EULA to do this, but it is a counter-revolutionary act for which I have absolutely no patience. Once he trained his mining laser on that first chunk of ore, he forfeited all of his rights.

I hope that everyone can respect this decision. Regardless, it is final.

- 315
#2 - 2012-05-14 01:40:53 UTC
He didn't pay the ransom! You are completely in the right!

He sent you 900m when you asked for 90m.

900m != 90m.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group
#3 - 2012-05-14 01:41:59 UTC
Captain Catchup
#4 - 2012-05-14 01:44:28 UTC
i agree, noone cares you should definately seek help Roll
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2012-05-14 01:45:20 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:

I care.

I care deeply.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Maitsu Takeda
Intergalactic Associates
#6 - 2012-05-14 01:51:55 UTC
Good way to make a person leave EVE, less players for pirates to shoot at Arrow
Chainsaw Plankton
#7 - 2012-05-14 01:52:30 UTC
he paid the ransom and gave you an 810m tip for being nice and offering him a ransom in the first place.

shame on you!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Drew Solaert
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-05-14 01:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Drew Solaert
900 mil certainly isn't 90mil, wasn't the terms of the ransom but i'd throw the nub a bone. I'd give back 450mil personally and keep the other half for making you post this.

Then when he buys a new hulk with it, you can ransom him for the proper 90mil.

I lied :o

Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-14 01:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Stiller
James, if you honestly believe what you posted, you're mentally challenged. You'd be more respectable if you simply admit that you never intended to honor the ransom. In any case, congratulations on your lucky windfall.
Connaght Badasaz
Lewis and Clark Inc.
#10 - 2012-05-14 01:57:55 UTC
Are you a lawyer by profession, irl?

Take arrows in the forehead, never the back

Katja Faith
#11 - 2012-05-14 02:01:58 UTC
Everyone knows it's boolshite, dude, just walk away. You're just embarassing yourself.
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#12 - 2012-05-14 02:03:10 UTC
is this C&P?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#13 - 2012-05-14 02:03:37 UTC
This is why EVE should not be a niche game.

Our forums are just as ****** as WoW's

Katrina Oniseki

Karloth Valois
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-05-14 02:13:44 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
This is why EVE should not be a niche game.

Our forums are just as ****** as WoW's

Dont under sell it, ours are much more ****

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube

Verboten Technologies
#15 - 2012-05-14 02:17:30 UTC
Another example of a completely dishonorable pirate trying to justify is his act of dishonor, and claiming his is actually being honorable.

I have known some honorable pirates before you are not one of them. You disgrace the pirates that are truly honorable and are part of the reason honorable pirates have died out, and that ransoming has become a joke, and has mostly died out. With the way the game rewards players more that choose the path disgrace and dishonor. I am not surprised that you would choose such a path and that popular opinion was to choose the dishonorable path as well. Most pirates that ransom are just like you trying to get a little more isk out of their pray before popping and podding them.

The time that pirates honored ransoms has long since past.

A truly honorable pirate would of given back the isk minus the ransom.

And coming on here making this post to twist the knife a little more proves your lack of honor.

You disgrace the code of Bushido, just by mentioning it in your affirmation of dishonor.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#16 - 2012-05-14 02:34:13 UTC
Came expecting OP's verdict, left satisfied. Also; I lol'd.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-05-14 02:54:48 UTC
James 315 wrote:
This weekend a controversial incident occurred in which I asked an orca pilot to pay a 90 million isk ransom and he sent me 900 million instead.

A) Your Original post made me want to end my life please consider this Awesome

B) How closely do you watch your wallet holy **** are you that by the book that change is a foreign concept. What in the world do you do when you want a ice cream and you have only $10 note. Does the shop owner pod you ?

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-05-14 03:00:51 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
he paid the ransom and gave you an 810m tip for being nice and offering him a ransom in the first place.

shame on you!

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?

Pres Crendraven
#19 - 2012-05-14 03:07:41 UTC
I am close to having enough material to complete your psychological evaluation...

Please continue.


Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#20 - 2012-05-14 03:14:21 UTC
Did you honestly write all that?

I am a pod pilot:

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

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