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Let carebears be carebears (PVP Opt Out)
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Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#121 - 2012-05-16 01:42:02 UTC
CCP is allowing you to play the way you want to. They are also allowing us pvp'ing scum to play the way we want to, as well. For us, that includes blowing up whining little carebears who want to turn this game into another crappy WoW theme park game.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#122 - 2012-05-16 05:18:22 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl
Asheru
Perkone
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-05-16 05:55:56 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl


Like comparing real life to a video game.

Your wit is obviously non-existent.
Haulie Berry
#124 - 2012-05-16 05:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
bongsmoke wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl


This is a false equivalency. In real life, **** is a crime and is disallowed. In contrast, Eve is a game in which unconsensual PvP is explicitly allowed (and even encouraged) by the rules. Furthermore, in both cases, the rules of the respective societies are known to all "players". In reality, when I leave my house, I know it is against the rules for someone to **** me, and anyone who might attempt to do so knows that it would be against the rules as well. In Eve, when I undock, I know that is within the rules for someone to shoot at me.

So, in summary, one is a rationalization for unacceptable behavior that is known to be against the rules, while the other is completely legitimate behavior within the bounds of the game universe.

If doing anything that adversely affects another player in a game were actually the equivalent to real life ****, there would be no competitive games.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#125 - 2012-05-16 06:15:17 UTC
Asheru wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl


Like comparing real life to a video game.

Your wit is obviously non-existent.


So real world experience doesnt work in this game, human beings behave differently in games than real life?

I suggest you finish high school and learn the real world.
Johnny Rook
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#126 - 2012-05-16 06:27:42 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:

human beings behave differently in games than real life?


to be fair, i don't fly a spaceship in real life so I can't be sure how i would act if I did.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#127 - 2012-05-16 06:27:46 UTC
Five Thirty wrote:
Charlotte Elizabeth wrote:


Oh yeah, lets just allow people to opt in and out of PvP at their own convenience.

That won't break the game at all. Roll


Nobody is talking about opting in and out of PVP. We are talking about removing non-consensual PvP as a tool for griefers. Stop pretending the PvP world would fall apart if you couldn't grief highsec industrialists.

A vast majority of PvP takes place in low and null security space. In fact, nearly all PvP that occurs in high security space is griefing. So what's the loss to PvP if high sec griefing is curtailed?

Is the game really that worse off with griefing removed?

I'm still waiting on a valid, non slippery slope argument to why griefing in high security space should be allowed to continue.


You obviously do not understand economics. If we didn't occasionally wardec the defenseless indy corp then supply on the market would be very high and you'd have to sell your stuff at lower prices to compete. So would everyone else. But, to put it in terms that would apply to a simulator of life in space (aka EVE) there is no opt-out from non-consensual crime IRL, and neither should their be in a simulator or life in space. Deal with it.

BTW - your tears...they are so delicious. May I have seconds?
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#128 - 2012-05-16 06:31:46 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl


Lol, you equate getting space pixels being blown up to getting gang raped in an allyway? I'll remember that those are the visuals going through your mind when I'm one day blowing you up and have a nice little laugh at your straw man comparison.

When you leave home, you know that something bad could happen to you. Hell, someone could bust through your door and shoot you in the face if they wanted, so technically you're safer docked in EVE than you are in your own RL abode...that is until WiS comes out ;) Man, I hope we can shoot ppl in stations. The tears will flow like wine and the pirates will flock to Jita 4-4 like the salmon of Capistrano!
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#129 - 2012-05-16 06:40:44 UTC
Johnny Rook wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:

human beings behave differently in games than real life?


to be fair, i don't fly a spaceship in real life so I can't be sure how i would act if I did.


If your a pirate in-game, extorting people, I doubt your personality isnt much different in the real world. Taking advantage of other people however, whenever you can.

You do fly a spaceship, however in a game, they way you choose. im sure you act the same way irl if you had said spaceship(scary, I know)
Johnny Rook
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#130 - 2012-05-16 06:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Rook
bongsmoke wrote:
Johnny Rook wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:

human beings behave differently in games than real life?


to be fair, i don't fly a spaceship in real life so I can't be sure how i would act if I did.


If your a pirate in-game, extorting people, I doubt your personality isnt much different in the real world. Taking advantage of other people however, whenever you can.

You do fly a spaceship, however in a game, they way you choose. im sure you act the same way irl if you had said spaceship(scary, I know)


no you're right, i'm pretty much an amalgamation of Gordon Gecko and Darth Vader (without the spaceship) IRL.
Rond Dorlezahn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-05-16 07:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rond Dorlezahn
bongsmoke wrote:

So real world experience doesnt work in this game, human beings behave differently in games than real life?



Um...yes.

They do.

Am I on Punk'd right now? I feel like I'm walking into a trap or something. You can't seriously be so goofy-stupid as to believe that everyone who PvPs in this game would become a marauding brigand, given the resources.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#132 - 2012-05-16 08:13:51 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl


No, you don't, but you run the risk of it. And if it does happen, the police will be there to punish the criminals. They will not be there to prevent it.

But that's beside the point, since this is a GAME and is marketed as a MULTIPLAYER, PvP Interaction* focused, GAME. So equating getting ganked with being raped is in the worst of taste and pretty inaccurate.

*Note that I say PvP Interaction. This doesn't mean that I'm only talking pewpew in space. This includes Scamming (EBANK got and continues to get a ton of cool press for CCP), market PvP, espionage (the various Spy hits butan, news at 11 stories are more good recruiting material for CCP). Even Incursions were designed to encourage PvP (in the form of competing for sites).

If you came to this specific game for an experience that doesn't involve interplayer conflict resolution in all forms, you came to the wrong game. So sorry.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#133 - 2012-05-16 09:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
PvPers please stop making the market for stuff I need so hi and the suff I sell so low!

Stop attacking me with your level 4 missioning LP stuff your killing my ability to make cash.
Stop Paying stupid hi prices for stuff you don't need!! Faction and DED stuff is hi as hell and its your fult stop.

I just want to activat turrets and ECM on players in peace but you keep making it expensive to do so.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#134 - 2012-05-16 09:47:15 UTC
After all these years how are people still mistaking eve for a game where you can be safe and happy and have mommy-mechanics to hold your hand?

Anyway, I fail to see how the new war dec mechanics make small corporations any more vulnerable than they already are. If I recall correctly the base war dec price is going up, which actually makes them safer.

Successful troll is successful i guess
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#135 - 2012-05-16 11:30:45 UTC
You ask about where is the sandbox? I ask you.. where is the sandbox on protecting people from PVP? Sandbox menas you can do anything you want as long as you are willing to pay the consequences and take the risk. That includes PVPers to pvp or gank anyone! Consequences and risks associated . That includes PVE, payign the consequences and risks of being wardecked or ganked!


The base of eve is.. there is no way out of risk ! You can have more or less risk but ZERO is NOT an option and that is what makes EVE what it is.


If you want to be 100% protected do not log in! Zero risk must give zero rewards
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#136 - 2012-05-16 15:07:15 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP


LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl


No, you don't, but you run the risk of it. And if it does happen, the police will be there to punish the criminals. They will not be there to prevent it.

But that's beside the point, since this is a GAME and is marketed as a MULTIPLAYER, PvP Interaction* focused, GAME. So equating getting ganked with being raped is in the worst of taste and pretty inaccurate.

*Note that I say PvP Interaction. This doesn't mean that I'm only talking pewpew in space. This includes Scamming (EBANK got and continues to get a ton of cool press for CCP), market PvP, espionage (the various Spy hits butan, news at 11 stories are more good recruiting material for CCP). Even Incursions were designed to encourage PvP (in the form of competing for sites).

If you came to this specific game for an experience that doesn't involve interplayer conflict resolution in all forms, you came to the wrong game. So sorry.


You missed the point..
Haulie Berry
#137 - 2012-05-16 15:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
bongsmoke wrote:

You missed the point..


There was no point to miss. It was an invalid equivalency. You were comparing an illegal IRL activity to an allowed (and even encouraged) in game activity. The two are not analogous.

Someone blowing up your spaceship in Eve is no more morally or ethically wrong than someone putting hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk or putting "Quixotic" on a triple word score. Regardless of how adversely it affects YOU, personally, it's perfectly okay within the context of the game. The rules permit this behavior. By playing the game, you implicitly agree to the rules of the game. When you go play Paintball, you are agreeing that people can shoot paintballs at you, because it's a game and those are the rules. Similarly, when you undock in Eve, you're agreeing that people can shoot at you, because this is a game and those are the rules. The fact that Eve has a lot more variation in potential activities than a round of paintball doesn't change that.

So, what, you think the rules shouldn't apply to you? Because that's about how it sounds.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#138 - 2012-05-16 16:47:38 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:

You missed the point..


There was no point to miss. It was an invalid equivalency. You were comparing an illegal IRL activity to an allowed (and even encouraged) in game activity. The two are not analogous.

Someone blowing up your spaceship in Eve is no more morally or ethically wrong than someone putting hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk or putting "Quixotic" on a triple word score. Regardless of how adversely it affects YOU, personally, it's perfectly okay within the context of the game. The rules permit this behavior. By playing the game, you implicitly agree to the rules of the game. When you go play Paintball, you are agreeing that people can shoot paintballs at you, because it's a game and those are the rules. Similarly, when you undock in Eve, you're agreeing that people can shoot at you, because this is a game and those are the rules. The fact that Eve has a lot more variation in potential activities than a round of paintball doesn't change that.

So, what, you think the rules shouldn't apply to you? Because that's about how it sounds.


This is the best summation and analogy I've heard in a long time.

Flying in EVE is also similar to ferrying a boat through the Gulf of Aden. If you got a big friggen hauler that is carrying a metric crapton of expensive goods, fully expect that there is a possibility of being attacked by Somali pirates in small weapon heavy skiffs who are going to ruin your day. This is life in EVE. Adapt or find another game to play.
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#139 - 2012-05-16 17:18:05 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:

You missed the point..


There was no point to miss. It was an invalid equivalency. You were comparing an illegal IRL activity to an allowed (and even encouraged) in game activity. The two are not analogous.

Someone blowing up your spaceship in Eve is no more morally or ethically wrong than someone putting hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk or putting "Quixotic" on a triple word score. Regardless of how adversely it affects YOU, personally, it's perfectly okay within the context of the game. The rules permit this behavior. By playing the game, you implicitly agree to the rules of the game. When you go play Paintball, you are agreeing that people can shoot paintballs at you, because it's a game and those are the rules. Similarly, when you undock in Eve, you're agreeing that people can shoot at you, because this is a game and those are the rules. The fact that Eve has a lot more variation in potential activities than a round of paintball doesn't change that.

So, what, you think the rules shouldn't apply to you? Because that's about how it sounds.


This is the best summation and analogy I've heard in a long time.

Flying in EVE is also similar to ferrying a boat through the Gulf of Aden. If you got a big friggen hauler that is carrying a metric crapton of expensive goods, fully expect that there is a possibility of being attacked by Somali pirates in small weapon heavy skiffs who are going to ruin your day. This is life in EVE. Adapt or find another game to play.


Agreed! Before anyone can say that, "well, teh rules need to be changed then!" No, they don't. You are the one who needs to change. Space is lawless. The police can do a lot to try to protect you (if you are around a station, warp gate, sitting near a concord task force) but there is simply TOO much space to be able to enforce the rules. CONCORD is as close to God as anything can possibly come and even they fall short. You cannot police the universe. You are asking for a mechanic that simply should not exist in this type of game.

EVE is The Matrix; a world built on rules that simulate real life physics. You cannot break free of it, you are not The One, and you have no special powers. Built. On. Rules. You are a part of the system and you will never be not part of the system. Personally, I welcome our CCP overlords \o/


Vexx
PS: As I said before, stop asking for invulnerability and cheat codes for EVE, it's not going to happen.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#140 - 2012-05-16 21:08:20 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:

You missed the point..


There was no point to miss. It was an invalid equivalency. You were comparing an illegal IRL activity to an allowed (and even encouraged) in game activity. The two are not analogous.

Someone blowing up your spaceship in Eve is no more morally or ethically wrong than someone putting hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk or putting "Quixotic" on a triple word score. Regardless of how adversely it affects YOU, personally, it's perfectly okay within the context of the game. The rules permit this behavior. By playing the game, you implicitly agree to the rules of the game. When you go play Paintball, you are agreeing that people can shoot paintballs at you, because it's a game and those are the rules. Similarly, when you undock in Eve, you're agreeing that people can shoot at you, because this is a game and those are the rules. The fact that Eve has a lot more variation in potential activities than a round of paintball doesn't change that.

So, what, you think the rules shouldn't apply to you? Because that's about how it sounds.


First, this isnt about me, I do have an attitude with certain players with play styles i disagree with, but guess what? I've known this for 7 years.


I dont live in hi-sec space, I live in null, I know the rules and the game, and if thats your main you post with, ive played a lot longer than you.

The biggest loss in 1 shot ive ever occurred was 6 billion. I didnt cry, didnt rage, didnt msg the 12 gankers that got me(yes it was hi-sec), I took it as a expensive lesson.

Rules should always apply, war dec mech dont mean much to me since I live in null.

Comparing this game to monopoly is moronic at best. You dont invest years into a single game of monoploy, nor pay a month sub, not buy plexes if your shiny hotels are sold.

If you think people dont have the right to complain, wtf you in the forums to begin with?

Arent you moving to France to get away from the paparazzi? Arrow