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To CCP: Please don't make anymore tech spec videos

Author
YuuKnow
The Scope
#1 - 2012-05-12 20:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Please don't make anymore Tech Spec videos. Call me a tech porn nerd (on the level of being obscessive even, yes), but there are such glaring technical improbabilities to the specs that ruins the Eve canon.

For example giving the Gauss Rifle a 600meter effect range? That's the range of most current RL military assault rifles. Why would a advanced society that has masters interstellar travel still be subject to the same ranges of a 20th century M16? What?

Another example. Giving the Myrmidon "Plasma" engines would give it Newtonian motion, not the 'submarines in space' motion that Eve ships display now.

Probably better to leave all 'tech spec' videos off the radar please.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2012-05-13 02:27:10 UTC
The "technical specification" videos are rife with all kinds of errors, both technical and logical (the newtonian-vs-submarine motion actually being the least of them; that, at least, has an in-universe handwavium explanation).
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#3 - 2012-05-13 02:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda
As technical specification videos were an auxiliary marketing tool for Tony Gonzales' book, I don't think you'll be seeing any more of them now that he has left CCP.

And yes, they're not really well thought out, nor even matching what exists on EVElopedia, which is a much better source of solid, well-conceived information on the IP.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#4 - 2012-05-13 03:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Makes no sense? Ignores previously established lore? Generally ridiculous?

Seems about normal for anything related to TonyG.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I'd love tech specs, and especially ship cross sections - but only if they make sense and fit the lore.

Katrina Oniseki

YuuKnow
The Scope
#5 - 2012-05-13 06:02:43 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
the newtonian-vs-submarine motion actually being the least of them; that, at least, has an in-universe handwavium explanation.


Is there a generally excepted handwavium to the submarine motion? I personally had my own handwavium for the matter, but if there is anything more accepted then please do share.
Wu Jiaqiu
#6 - 2012-05-13 13:14:01 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Please don't make anymore Tech Spec videos. Call me a tech **** nerd (on the level of being obscessive even, yes), but there are such glaring technical improbabilities to the specs that ruins the Eve canon.

For example giving the Gauss Rifle a 600meter effect range? That's the range of most current RL military assault rifles. Why would a advanced society that has masters interstellar travel still be subject to the same ranges of a 20th century M16? What?

Another example. Giving the Myrmidon "Plasma" engines would give it Newtonian motion, not the 'submarines in space' motion that Eve ships display now.

Probably better to leave all 'tech spec' videos off the radar please.


Are you suggesting that rifles ought to be able to fire projectiles into space or use lasers to cut down mountains?
Paintchk
Facepunch Industries
#7 - 2012-05-13 13:31:04 UTC
Plz make more CCP. It adds lore too the game.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2012-05-13 16:45:05 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:

Is there a generally excepted handwavium to the submarine motion? I personally had my own handwavium for the matter, but if there is anything more accepted then please do share.


My understanding is that it was explained that the warp drives we use cause a drag-like effect on our ships; moreover, once activated the warp drives cannot be shut down - disrupted from functioning, yes, but not shut down. The reason for this is, at the moment, shutting down a warp drive causes a large explosion - which, I believe, is additionally handwavium for why our ships suddenly blow up when the structure is sufficiently damaged.



Keep in mind, however, that this is something that I've heard only by word of mouth - I cannot name a source for this.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#9 - 2012-05-14 01:09:43 UTC
Someone has to say it: what exactly is wrong about a 600 m effective range? Smile

Assuming of course that this range is based off operation of the weapon in similar conditions (consistent acceleration due to gravity, atmospheric density etc.).

There are some aspects of technology that probably won't change too drastically over a few thousand years. Paper is still paper and wheels are wheels. What I would find interesting is "lateral" improvements. Do they have near case-less ammunition? What about cooling systems, do these weapons need to change out their barrels?

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#10 - 2012-05-14 04:35:23 UTC
I think it's more that, for a weapon that uses a does use a drastically changed (and drastically more energy efficient compared to a gunpowder-cycled firearm), the fact that it has a range which is equal to most and inferior to some modern assault rifles seems out of place to some people.
Remistor Callaway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-05-14 21:18:36 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Someone has to say it: what exactly is wrong about a 600 m effective range? Smile


I agree with that. Also this gun do not use a kind of aiming system to be a "sniper"

about Plasma engines: A plasma propulsion engine is a type of Ion thruster which uses plasma in some or all parts of the thrust generation process. Though far less powerful than conventional rocket engines, plasma engines are able to operate at higher efficiencies and for longer periods of time. Plasma engines are better suited for long-distance Interplanetary space travel missions. (from wikipedia page about Plasma engines). And this is the actual technology.

Since EVE is like in 23000 years from now, "plasma engines" could be a totally different technology which would only share the name with the plasma engines we know. Dont forget that this is fiction, and because of that they could call it "rabbits powered hyperdrive thruster" and it would still be ok.

When I watch Ironman I dont complain how the Arc Reactor and the armor would be impossible to build in real life, I just enjoy the movie. I do the same with EVE. There is always something "impossible" in fiction.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2012-05-14 21:41:18 UTC
Remistor Callaway wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Someone has to say it: what exactly is wrong about a 600 m effective range? Smile


I agree with that. Also this gun do not use a kind of aiming system to be a "sniper"


It's not a sniper weapon, it's an assault rifle with an inferior range to existing modern-day assault rifles. Sniper rifles often have ranges from 800m to 1800m, sometimes farther.

Quote:

about Plasma engines: A plasma propulsion engine is a type of Ion thruster which uses plasma in some or all parts of the thrust generation process. Though far less powerful than conventional rocket engines, plasma engines are able to operate at higher efficiencies and for longer periods of time. Plasma engines are better suited for long-distance Interplanetary space travel missions. (from wikipedia page about Plasma engines). And this is the actual technology.

Since EVE is like in 23000 years from now, "plasma engines" could be a totally different technology which would only share the name with the plasma engines we know. Dont forget that this is fiction, and because of that they could call it "rabbits powered hyperdrive thruster" and it would still be ok.

When I watch Ironman I dont complain how the Arc Reactor and the armor would be impossible to build in real life, I just enjoy the movie. I do the same with EVE. There is always something "impossible" in fiction.


This has nothing to do with whether the technology matches RL or not; plasma thrusters exist elsewhere in EVE fiction. The issue is that they are a specifically Minmatar technology and only used in Minmatar vesselss; Caldari and Gallente vessels use Mag-pulse and Ion-thrusters respectively. It makes it kind of hard to talk about ships technical capabilities when the existing information is being disregarded.
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#13 - 2012-05-14 23:32:18 UTC
To CCP: please don't listen to this guy. I think the video's are awesome. Keep them coming!
YuuKnow
The Scope
#14 - 2012-05-15 00:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Remistor Callaway wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Someone has to say it: what exactly is wrong about a 600 m effective range? Smile


I agree with that. Also this gun do not use a kind of aiming system to be a "sniper"

about Plasma engines: A plasma propulsion engine is a type of Ion thruster which uses plasma in some or all parts of the thrust generation process. Though far less powerful than conventional rocket engines, plasma engines are able to operate at higher efficiencies and for longer periods of time. Plasma engines are better suited for long-distance Interplanetary space travel missions. (from wikipedia page about Plasma engines). And this is the actual technology.

Since EVE is like in 23000 years from now, "plasma engines" could be a totally different technology which would only share the name with the plasma engines we know. Dont forget that this is fiction, and because of that they could call it "rabbits powered hyperdrive thruster" and it would still be ok.

When I watch Ironman I dont complain how the Arc Reactor and the armor would be impossible to build in real life, I just enjoy the movie. I do the same with EVE. There is always something "impossible" in fiction.


What Esna said about the assault rifles.

My issue with plasma engines is something of that only the most hard-core sci-fi techp0rn junkies would be bothered by (which is what I am). Its the fact that a "ion" or "plasma" thruster needs one thing that isn't present on Eve ships... a propellant. Plasma engines use a propellant that when expulsed provides the thrust forward. Seeing that all of the Eve ships have unlimited range (even on sublight drives) it wouldn't make sense for them to have a propellant tank that needed to be filled intermittently. In other words Eve ships would need to 'stop for gas' intermittently.

Yes 99% on players don't even think about this stuff, but the hardest core techies like myselfs it makes things lamer.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#15 - 2012-05-17 03:21:15 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:

It's not a sniper weapon, it's an assault rifle with an inferior range to existing modern-day assault rifles. Sniper rifles often have ranges from 800m to 1800m, sometimes farther.



Fair enough reason. I suppose we need more information also to see if it really is inferior. It might have an effective range of 600 m, but what is the speed of the projectile. These rounds might cover 600 m faster than these conventional rifles. Do they carry more ammunition? Are the rounds a higher calibre?

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Renier Gaden
Immortal Guides
#16 - 2012-05-17 16:46:11 UTC
Tavin makes a good point. If the gun can hold 1000 rounds of ammo it would be far superior to today’s assault rifles even if it’s range is less. Maybe this technology makes it smaller, lighter, more accurate, or the bullets do more damage on impact. Range is an important factor, but not the only factor. I would guess that most people killed by assault rifles are within 60m of the shooter, so 600m is still a fairly effective range.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#17 - 2012-05-24 03:04:27 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Esna Pitoojee wrote:

It's not a sniper weapon, it's an assault rifle with an inferior range to existing modern-day assault rifles. Sniper rifles often have ranges from 800m to 1800m, sometimes farther.



Fair enough reason. I suppose we need more information also to see if it really is inferior. It might have an effective range of 600 m, but what is the speed of the projectile. These rounds might cover 600 m faster than these conventional rifles. Do they carry more ammunition? Are the rounds a higher calibre?


This is fair. But then to justify that pitiful range some more tech specs need to be fluffed. "Detonation range" versus just "range" or "antimatter containment range" or "shielf adaptation matrix range".... something....

... it would still probably be better if CCP left tech specs alone. Its more likely that they mess it up than add to the storyline.

yk
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#18 - 2012-05-24 13:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
YuuKnow wrote:


My issue with plasma engines is something of that only the most hard-core sci-fi techp0rn junkies would be bothered by (which is what I am). Its the fact that a "ion" or "plasma" thruster needs one thing that isn't present on Eve ships... a propellant. Plasma engines use a propellant that when expulsed provides the thrust forward. Seeing that all of the Eve ships have unlimited range (even on sublight drives) it wouldn't make sense for them to have a propellant tank that needed to be filled intermittently. In other words Eve ships would need to 'stop for gas' intermittently.

Yes 99% on players don't even think about this stuff, but the hardest core techies like myselfs it makes things lamer.


My personal view is that warp engines use gravity fields, and that the particular drive type refers to the power plant and not the thrusters.. Thrusters (AB's, MWD's) use hydrogen skimmed from space as a propellant, so don't need to be refueled. The graphic on entering warp shows a discharge from the power plant as it increases it's energy output to generate the warp field.. The ship then locks onto a cosmic gravity source and then uses it to push or pull the ship to it's destination..

Regular movement just requires a small nudge from a local gravity source. Only the AB's and MWD's actually utilize the thruster nacelles for propulsion.. This also supplies a viable reason as to why MWD and AB's are limited (mostly) in their duration, they run out of hydrogen until the skimmers can resupply the system..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
#19 - 2012-05-25 18:31:03 UTC
Well, the tech specs on ships were kind of funny. Especially since they pretty much ignored CCP's on crew guidelines.

As of 600 m range on an assault rifle: Valmet RK-62 has 300 m maximum combat range, with the sights being usually set to 150 m. Of course, someone could likely use the same weapon to fire to sniping ranges, and the bullet may be lethal up to several km if the person/animal on the wrong end of the barrel is very unlucky. Typical infantry combat ranges (not sniping ranges) are however around 150 - 300 m in places where there's terrain.

Also the fact of recoil, but I assume the DUST suits have enough mass to mitigate that. However, it doesn't matter if the force pushing the projectile is chemical or electromagnetic, these things would have recoil. If mounted, you might be able to have higher velocities. Also having a mount / bipod / some kind of support is pretty much a must for 150 m + ranges. The full auto fire while standing up you'll see on movies isn't terribly effective on ranges past pistol ranges (50 m).

So, with the extra stability brought by a powered suit (+ optics, etc.), an optimal range of 600m (+ some falloff) sounds realistic for an assault rifle type of weapon. Haven't seen the gauss rifle video myself, though.
KBTRIPSTA
Bangarang Inc
#20 - 2012-05-26 03:30:24 UTC
I'd personally say that the EVE book was (although seriously cool) seriously detached from EVE fiction. It unfortunately **** all over AJ's very cool workings and so rather spoiled the intended audience. I'd have no problems in passing it off as non-canon fiction.
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