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casual eve on a separate server
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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-05-14 17:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
cyndrogen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:


HINT: Every PLEX bought with ISK was paid for with money by someone. CCP get the money either way.

HINT: Goons are not paying money they are using ISK. Without money there is no eve online. Get it?



You didn't actually read what I posted, did you.

Goons might be using isk, but the people they are buying the PLEX from are other players. For a PLEX to exist in game, someone somewhere must have paid the money for it. It doesn't matter if someone pays with money or isk, CCP get the cash either way.


Ok you still don't get it, it's amazing. What good is ISK if no one is buying or paying for subscriptions? Do you get that concept? It's very simple. Without cash ISK is worthless, without new players paying for the game there is no plex. You do understand how money works right? Virtual items have no value outside of eve online. Do you grasp this simple concept?

I can buy food, clothing etc with money , but isk in the real world is worthless, you can't trade ISK for money, therefore what good is ISK when you are completely dependent on people with money to play your game. Does this simple concept compute for you?

Goons bring NO value to eve other then taking money from those who actually pay to play. They are essentially the virtual bullies in eve online that take your lunch money.


What you fail to understand is no one gives a #### about what you think because you are a minority....you think the sky is falling...and everyone around obviously disagrees.

I pay for my accounts with cash.....some pay with isk....how does that factor into your thinking again?

If you don't like this game..then quit...stop breaking it for everyone else...go carebear somewhere else.

PS: Oh and ISK is monopoly money...it has no value other than in-game..stop making it gain value and coming across as an ISK Seller.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#22 - 2012-05-14 17:55:23 UTC
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#23 - 2012-05-14 17:55:43 UTC
Simon Falls wrote:
There are plenty of games that offer a quick PvP fix that require little or no thought.

However, if you want to play EVE Online as you've described may I suggest the SISI server. On the test server you can fly any ship that you're able to fly in game. All modules are 100 isk, all ships are 100 isk, and there's nearly always a fight.

The very essence of EVE Online is in it's complexity and its skill point fairness. If you want to fly a Titan, you have to put in the time.

Let's just say you were indeed willing to purchase a Titan for good old hard cash. Would you be willing to pay $5000 just for fun and just as willing to lose it?

If you 'goofed' and jumped your carrier into the wrong system and 'oops' lost $30.00 would it bother you?

"EVE has consequences", and that's what makes it a good PvP world.

For the record, a number of pvp alliances offer free frigates and the like to members.

Finally, CCP knows that if they set up a tourney ladder for pvp folks that didn't require any work the whole system would collapse into empty space. It functions as it does because the 10-15% of the population who PvP drive the economy.
Simon



I beg your pardon but clearly you don't PVP if you think that there is NO thought involved when fitting ships or engaging in combat.
There are hundreds if not thousands of variables that determine a fight. Millions of combinations are possible and TQ simply does NOT allow for a variety of trial and error. This is why tools like eve hq and eve fitting tool were invented, to simulate ship fittings etc. People use those tools all the time so your argument that a pure pvp style version of eve would somehow limit the game or make it easy is not only narrow minded but just plain wrong.

The complexity of modules, fitting, skills, plugins, boosters etc gives an almost INFINITE amount of possibilites, plus add pilot skill on top of that and you suddenly have a dynamic arena style pvp game that is less about grinding, and missions and more about player vs player interactions. Add a scoreboard and weekly tournaments and I'm hooked!

I would even introduce new game styles like capture the flag, team deathmatch, team deathstar takedown etc etc.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#24 - 2012-05-14 18:02:27 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.


Right, this is why eve online only has 25,000 people logged in at one time and "carebear" games like WOW crush eve's numbers in terms of a four quadrant audience. Here is a newsflash , more people are carebears and the minority are hardcore. Your argument is not only weak it's arrogant. I would be willing to bet money that if eve had an arena style gladiatorial version more people would log into that server.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-05-14 22:57:43 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.


Right, this is why eve online only has 25,000 people logged in at one time and "carebear" games like WOW crush eve's numbers in terms of a four quadrant audience. Here is a newsflash , more people are carebears and the minority are hardcore. Your argument is not only weak it's arrogant. I would be willing to bet money that if eve had an arena style gladiatorial version more people would log into that server.


Comparing WOW to EVE is like comparing Kindergarten to High School.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-05-14 23:20:49 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.


Right, this is why eve online only has 25,000 people logged in at one time and "carebear" games like WOW crush eve's numbers in terms of a four quadrant audience. Here is a newsflash , more people are carebears and the minority are hardcore. Your argument is not only weak it's arrogant. I would be willing to bet money that if eve had an arena style gladiatorial version more people would log into that server.



Yeah. A sharded, level capped game with instances, totally optional PVP and players who have their hands held by the devs is EXACTLY the same as EVE.

More people might log in, but less people would actually PVP, so the game would suffer. Less fights means less ships die, which means less ships are bought and sold, which means less money for industrialists and less demand for minerals.


I really, really don't think you 'get' EVE.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-05-15 01:37:03 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.


Right, this is why eve online only has 25,000 people logged in at one time and "carebear" games like WOW crush eve's numbers in terms of a four quadrant audience. Here is a newsflash , more people are carebears and the minority are hardcore. Your argument is not only weak it's arrogant. I would be willing to bet money that if eve had an arena style gladiatorial version more people would log into that server.



Yeah. A sharded, level capped game with instances, totally optional PVP and players who have their hands held by the devs is EXACTLY the same as EVE.

More people might log in, but less people would actually PVP, so the game would suffer. Less fights means less ships die, which means less ships are bought and sold, which means less money for industrialists and less demand for minerals.


I really, really don't think you 'get' EVE.


Oh he/she/it gets it....just dosen't like it....and whats it changed so everyone else can be forced to play he/she/its version of the game.

OP:
We can speak for ourselves thank you very much....go play Hello Kitty Online....its much more suited to your style.

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cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#28 - 2012-05-15 03:35:16 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.


Right, this is why eve online only has 25,000 people logged in at one time and "carebear" games like WOW crush eve's numbers in terms of a four quadrant audience. Here is a newsflash , more people are carebears and the minority are hardcore. Your argument is not only weak it's arrogant. I would be willing to bet money that if eve had an arena style gladiatorial version more people would log into that server.



Yeah. A sharded, level capped game with instances, totally optional PVP and players who have their hands held by the devs is EXACTLY the same as EVE.

More people might log in, but less people would actually PVP, so the game would suffer. Less fights means less ships die, which means less ships are bought and sold, which means less money for industrialists and less demand for minerals.


I really, really don't think you 'get' EVE.


Oh he/she/it gets it....just dosen't like it....and whats it changed so everyone else can be forced to play he/she/its version of the game.

OP:
We can speak for ourselves thank you very much....go play Hello Kitty Online....its much more suited to your style.


Ok how am I forcing anyone to do anything. TQ would remain intact, NOTHING on TQ would change the way it is now in fact the subscriptions now on TQ would most likely NOT switch to a new server anyway.

The people who don't play on TQ, however would have another option to fight in a very different way. How exactly does this interfere with your game again? You would have an alternate choice and choose whichever level of difficulty you please. Can you explain exactly how a separate server would ruin TQ?


Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#29 - 2012-05-15 03:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyndrogen
Danika Princip wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Um ... you still don't get it, lol. The cash still goes into the game even when people pay via PLEX, because someone paid CCP cash for the PLEX. If people don't pay for accounts via PLEX, CCP makes less AND people who want to turn cash into ISK end up turning to RMTing.

PLEX is the single best payment method for any video game I've ever seen. It both adds paying accounts to the game (because the money still goes to CCP for the account, regardless of the name on the credit card) AND it helps curb RMTing by giving people a way to 'buy' ISK while still helping the game and the economy. It's freaking brilliant.

Oh, and the Goons do add a lot to the game, they keep the rest of us on our toes, which is a very good thing for Eve. It turns out that an utopian society, where everything is peaceful and no one is mean, is really really boring.


Right, this is why eve online only has 25,000 people logged in at one time and "carebear" games like WOW crush eve's numbers in terms of a four quadrant audience. Here is a newsflash , more people are carebears and the minority are hardcore. Your argument is not only weak it's arrogant. I would be willing to bet money that if eve had an arena style gladiatorial version more people would log into that server.



Yeah. A sharded, level capped game with instances, totally optional PVP and players who have their hands held by the devs is EXACTLY the same as EVE.

More people might log in, but less people would actually PVP, so the game would suffer. Less fights means less ships die, which means less ships are bought and sold, which means less money for industrialists and less demand for minerals.


I really, really don't think you 'get' EVE.


Huh? Did IQ's just sharply start to drop off in here .... what are you talking about? In my proposal there are NO industrialists. The separate server would have NO isk at all plus it has absolutely nothing at all to do with TQ or how that shard works.

Are you all bots auto-programmed with the same response? Please read the ENTIRE post before you start spewing crap about what a bad idea this is ok?

In my version of eve online you would actually pvp more not less, how can you be so blindly obtuse?

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#30 - 2012-05-15 04:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
cyndrogen wrote:
Ok how am I forcing anyone to do anything. TQ would remain intact, NOTHING on TQ would change the way it is now in fact the subscriptions now on TQ would most likely NOT switch to a new server anyway.

Answer this question for me:

Provided that you are not fighting for SOV out in 0.0 space... why would you ever risk your hard earned stuff in "real" PvP on Tranquility when you can get your PvP chuckles on the "casual" server?

The way I see it, you are basically discouraging "PvP" on Tranquility because no one in their right mind would risk their ISK when a "risk free" option is available.

cyndrogen wrote:
The people who don't play on TQ, however would have another option to fight in a very different way.

And they would never come to TQ because... well... why would you want to make PvP "hurt?"

cyndrogen wrote:
In my version of eve online you would actually pvp more not less, how can you be so blindly obtuse?

Stop seeing PvP so "black and white." Every time you go to the market to buy or sell stuff you are PvPing with other players (by buying low and selling high). Every time you run a deadspace, Sleeper, or Incursion plex you are PvPing with other players (by getting there first). Every time you mine you are PvPing (because you mined the ore first). The list goes on.

And yeah... ship to ship combat supposed to hurt. That's what makes it so awesome. If you fear the loss of your ship due to cost then you WILL fight that much harder, learn that much more, and employ that many more tactics in order to win. Nothing else teaches a human more than fear and pain.

How did you Veterans start?
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#31 - 2012-05-15 05:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyndrogen
ShahFluffers wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
Ok how am I forcing anyone to do anything. TQ would remain intact, NOTHING on TQ would change the way it is now in fact the subscriptions now on TQ would most likely NOT switch to a new server anyway.

Answer this question for me:

Provided that you are not fighting for SOV out in 0.0 space... why would you ever risk your hard earned stuff in "real" PvP on Tranquility when you can get your PvP chuckles on the "casual" server?

The way I see it, you are basically discouraging "PvP" on Tranquility because no one in their right mind would risk their ISK when a "risk free" option is available.

cyndrogen wrote:
The people who don't play on TQ, however would have another option to fight in a very different way.

And they would never come to TQ because... well... why would you want to make PvP "hurt?"

cyndrogen wrote:
In my version of eve online you would actually pvp more not less, how can you be so blindly obtuse?

Stop seeing PvP so "black and white." Every time you go to the market to buy or sell stuff you are PvPing with other players (by buying low and selling high). Every time you run a deadspace, Sleeper, or Incursion plex you are PvPing with other players (by getting there first). Every time you mine you are PvPing (because you mined the ore first). The list goes on.

And yeah... ship to ship combat supposed to hurt. That's what makes it so awesome. If you fear the loss of your ship due to cost then you WILL fight that much harder, learn that much more, and employ that many more tactics in order to win. Nothing else teaches a human more than fear and pain.



Actually you are wrong, again. Why would you pay TWICE to play the same game? TQ and the PVP server would have a completely separate subscription plan, if you play on TQ you are not playing on PVP server, it's just that simple. No resources are shared, no isk on the PVP server completely different system from TQ.

TQ would offer something that the PVP would not, capital fleet battles and all that stuff that the majority of the players can't use anyway, so no big difference there. Why pay for features you can't use? Just get rid of em!

Also, Singularity or as you know it as SiSi offers already cheap PVP, yet people still pvp on TQ just as much. Hmmmm so your argument fails again.

Also on TQ you actually PVP less then you would on this alternate server simply because of ISK management and cost of modules. Fear has nothing to do with it. People are less likely to engage in combat on a server where the ships cost millions of ISK. I know I flew lowsec for MONTHS without a single fight. I even left a ship BY ACCIDENT parked next to a gate for over an hour and when I came back I was still in my ship and not a pod. Point being the pvp on TQ is far from ideal. If you really believe that mining is a form of pvp you really need to get your head ex
amined, mining is so far removed from pvp it's like watching grass grow.

If you just saw this the way I see it I think you would change your mind. You would actually get a BETTER breed of pilots from the PVP server, they would flock to TQ after they had their training on the PVP server and really get good at pvp.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2012-05-15 06:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
cyndrogen wrote:
Why would you pay TWICE to play the same game? TQ and the PVP server would have a completely separate subscription plan, if you play on TQ you are not playing on PVP server, it's just that simple. No resources are shared, no isk on the PVP server completely different system from TQ.

Hmmm... you're right. Now why would I want to PvP on a server that punishes me for PvP when the other one is basically a 24/7 battle royale?

cyndrogen wrote:
Also, Singularity or as you know it as SiSi offers already cheap PVP, yet people still pvp on TQ just as much. Hmmmm so your argument fails again.

Not exactly.

SiSi is perfect if you are looking for "risk free" arranged 1v1s. However there are not that many people using it because:

- it requires that you download another wholly separate client.
- is subject to frequent updates, mechanics changes, and system wipes (i.e. it's "unstable").
- there are "strict" rules for when and how you can engage in PvP. You can't just shoot at people willy nilly or assist someone randomly.
- the GMs and DEVs that roam around on SiSi have no tolerance for BS. It's THEIR server.
- people don't like expending *effort* on any of the above.

cyndrogen wrote:
Also on TQ you actually PVP less then you would on this alternate server simply because of ISK management and cost of modules. Fear has nothing to do with it. People are less likely to engage in combat on a server where the ships cost millions of ISK. I know I flew lowsec for MONTHS without a single fight. I even left a ship BY ACCIDENT parked next to a gate for over an hour and when I came back I was still in my ship and not a pod. Point being the pvp on TQ is far from ideal.

I don't know about you... but whenever I did something stupid and died, I remembered it. Because the loss hurt. Then I made mental notes to NOT repeat said stupidity until I figured WHY it was stupid.
Even today, with a whole lot of ISK under my belt, I still wince whenever my ship dies because I dislike taking loss. So I take precautions to ensure my survival and bring the best "tool" to the job.

(edit: interestingly, I barely remember my last loss. I had to actually look it up. And I found that it was just a "cheapo" cruiser that I casually threw into an engagement (I can buy a couple dozen more if I wished). However, I can CLEARLY remember my first two or three deaths from 3 years ago... because at that time they HURT. And I LEARNED from those deaths what NOT to do (ex. ships can't warp to you if you are less than 150km from them... big hulking battlecruisers can die horrible deaths against ships many times smaller than them... medium weapons have poor tracking against smaller ships... even if you don't see any war targets, don't run missions in the middle of a war dec... etc).)

As for your "issue" with finding combat in low-sec... you have to go to places where people are. Low-sec isn't the "death trap" everyone makes it out to be... especially in the back-end systems (those places are just infested with skittish industrialists). I hear Huola is rather nice this time of year. Twisted

I should also note that because of "fear of loss," not every multi-year veteran uses T2 or Faction ships all the time (it gets rather expensive if you make too many mistakes). This keeps relatively younger players competitive in the grand scheme of things.
If this fear was removed, then T2 and Faction ships would be the "baseline" for being competitive.

cyndrogen wrote:
If you really believe that mining is a form of pvp you really need to get your head examined, mining is so far removed from pvp it's like watching grass grow.

As twisted as it seems, that was how it was designed. Have a chat with the DEVs over a beer (or ten). You'll be shocked by many of the ideas and concepts they have and which ones have guided them over the years.




The way I see it... you are imagining an FPS game in space... a version of "Galatic Counter-Strike"... you basically don't want EVE to be EVE. And you want DEVs to spent time, effort, and money creating something that will, in the end, take away from the comprehensive universe that they have created thus far and many of us [more or less] enjoy BECAUSE it is the way it is.
Is it ideal? Hardly. But it is evolving to become bigger while trying to stay true to its founding principles (conflict driven economy, greed versus risk, painful losses, etc).

How did you Veterans start?
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#33 - 2012-05-15 07:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyndrogen
ShahFluffers wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
Why would you pay TWICE to play the same game? TQ and the PVP server would have a completely separate subscription plan, if you play on TQ you are not playing on PVP server, it's just that simple. No resources are shared, no isk on the PVP server completely different system from TQ.

Hmmm... you're right. Now why would I want to PvP on a server that punishes me for PvP when the other one is basically a 24/7 battle royale?

cyndrogen wrote:
Also, Singularity or as you know it as SiSi offers already cheap PVP, yet people still pvp on TQ just as much. Hmmmm so your argument fails again.

Not exactly.

SiSi is perfect if you are looking for "risk free" arranged 1v1s. However there are not that many people using it because:

- it requires that you download another wholly separate client.
- is subject to frequent updates, mechanics changes, and system wipes (i.e. it's "unstable").
- there are "strict" rules for when and how you can engage in PvP. You can't just shoot at people willy nilly or assist someone randomly.
- the GMs and DEVs that roam around on SiSi have no tolerance for BS. It's THEIR server.
- people don't like expending *effort* on any of the above.

cyndrogen wrote:
Also on TQ you actually PVP less then you would on this alternate server simply because of ISK management and cost of modules. Fear has nothing to do with it. People are less likely to engage in combat on a server where the ships cost millions of ISK. I know I flew lowsec for MONTHS without a single fight. I even left a ship BY ACCIDENT parked next to a gate for over an hour and when I came back I was still in my ship and not a pod. Point being the pvp on TQ is far from ideal.

I don't know about you... but whenever I did something stupid and died, I remembered it. Because the loss hurt. Then I made mental notes to NOT repeat said stupidity until I figured WHY it was stupid.
Even today, with a whole lot of ISK under my belt, I still wince whenever my ship dies because I dislike taking loss. So I take precautions to ensure my survival and bring the best "tool" to the job.

(edit: interestingly, I barely remember my last loss. I had to actually look it up. And I found that it was just a "cheapo" cruiser that I casually threw into an engagement (I can buy a couple dozen more if I wished). However, I can CLEARLY remember my first two or three deaths from 3 years ago... because at that time they HURT. And I LEARNED from those deaths what NOT to do (ex. ships can't warp to you if you are less than 150km from them... big hulking battlecruisers can die horrible deaths against ships many times smaller than them... medium weapons have poor tracking against smaller ships... even if you don't see any war targets, don't run missions in the middle of a war dec... etc).)

As for your "issue" with finding combat in low-sec... you have to go to places where people are. Low-sec isn't the "death trap" everyone makes it out to be... especially in the back-end systems (those places are just infested with skittish industrialists). I hear Huola is rather nice this time of year. Twisted

I should also note that because of "fear of loss," not every multi-year veteran uses T2 or Faction ships all the time (it gets rather expensive if you make too many mistakes). This keeps relatively younger players competitive in the grand scheme of things.
If this fear was removed, then T2 and Faction ships would be the "baseline" for being competitive.

cyndrogen wrote:
If you really believe that mining is a form of pvp you really need to get your head examined, mining is so far removed from pvp it's like watching grass grow.

As twisted as it seems, that was how it was designed. Have a chat with the DEVs over a beer (or ten). You'll be shocked by many of the ideas and concepts they have and which ones have guided them over the years.




The way I see it... you are imagining an FPS game in space... a version of "Galatic Counter-Strike"... you basically don't want EVE to be EVE. And you want DEVs to spent time, effort, and money creating something that will, in the end, take away from the comprehensive universe that they have created thus far and many of us [more or less] enjoy BECAUSE it is the way it is.
Is it ideal? Hardly. But it is evolving to become bigger while trying to stay true to its founding principles (conflict driven economy, greed versus risk, painful losses, etc).


Ok I agree you with you on one point: eve has many features thanks to a very broad range of development. However, and really I want you to think about this one for a bit before slamming my comment, do you think all their ideas are good? After all CCP is run by people who make mistakes, and they correct those mistakes as well when people protest in Jita etc etc.

As a casual player I am giving them DIRECT feedback that eve is bloated with too many features, some which are irrelevant. If the game play was MORE like their trailers and less of a grind fest I guarantee people would flock to this game but as it stands now there are many many useless features, like space barbie, WIS, mining, BPO's so on and so on.

Yes I said BPO's are completely useless, can you guess why? Think about that one and get back to me. If you played eve for 3 years or more you know what I am talking about.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#34 - 2012-05-15 08:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
cyndrogen wrote:
do you think all their ideas are good?

There are some things that interest me... and there are other things that bore me to tears.

I like to PvP. I REALLY like to PvP. However, I cannot PvP as much as I would like because well... stuff costs money and I despise running missions or spending time making ISK (see: "I'm lazy"). As a result, I've had to find... ways... to get ISK. I've done things. Things I'm not proud of. Things I'd rather not mention (don't release those pictures damn you!!). Oops

However, I don't see myself as enough of a "special snowflake" to think that the game should be changed to MY specific whims.
There are people out there who actually suck in ship on ship combat. However, give someone good with markets some ISK and they will wreak economic havoc. Some pilots can perform logistical feats that few can envision. Others are very good at crunching numbers. And because some of these people suck at ship to ship combat, they look at me with either contempt or adoration (depending on which side of my guns they are on). Likewise, I rely on my marketing, logistical, and number crunchers to give me the best equipment at the best prices at the best locations (or even help me get/do it all myself... I've learned a lot).
And this is what makes the game fun for me (and others like me)... all those different professions and ways of engaging in conflict... all in conflict with each other.

cyndrogen wrote:
As a casual player I am giving them DIRECT feedback that eve is bloated with too many features, some which are irrelevant. If the game play was MORE like their trailers and less of a grind fest I guarantee people would flock to this game but as it stands now there are many many useless features, like space barbie, WIS, mining, BPO's so on and so on.

Again... "perspective." You may not like ALL of the features... but those features may appeal to others who don't see things exactly the way you do. With such features the game has broader appeal to many more people... provided they are willing to accept the other features THEY may not like (the same as you).

Also... I'M a "casual player" and generally log in... what? 3 or 4 nights of the week at most? And I PvP. And I usually get kills. Seems like you are doing something wrong.

cyndrogen wrote:
Yes I said BPO's are completely useless, can you guess why? Think about that one and get back to me. If you played eve for 3 years or more you know what I am talking about.

Errr... not seeing why. They are used to build ships... which requires minerals... which need to be mined by miners... which are collected and used by industrialists... shipped by haulers... sold by traders... bought by PvPers... who then blow up everyone at odds with his/her supplier at his/her level and all the way down the chain.

How did you Veterans start?
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-15 09:11:34 UTC
Pay your monthly fee and just log into SiSi if you are that risk averse.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#36 - 2012-05-15 11:00:30 UTC
No, this is EvE Online, you are playing the wrong game.

The Tears Must Flow
aetherguy881
Grouchy Rediculous Ugly Man Pigs
#37 - 2012-05-15 11:52:40 UTC
Sounds like someone's played too much World of Tanks... Or League of Legends...
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-05-15 18:34:26 UTC
Here you go.
Enjoy your free ships and stop spamming up the forum with the ignorant bile coming out of your mouth.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#39 - 2012-05-15 18:57:39 UTC

OP:

One of the fundamental values within EvE is your actions have consequences. Losing a ship hurts, becuase you put time, energy, and/or money into ascertaining that ship.

In your alternate shard, you are essentially removing the consequences from losing a ship.
In a virtual arean, you are essnetially removing teh consequences from losing a ship...

These losses are very important to eve online. It provides some meaning and value to the dangerous activities you engage in. If you don't want to deal with actual losses, then EvE probably isn't for you!!!!

P.S. Most nullsec residents don't pay for the game with isk.... they pay with a subscription just like the noob. The difference is, they have played the game long enough that they know how to make isk to replace their losses.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-05-16 07:28:08 UTC
This thread just should die.

It is painfull when i read OP ahhhgr my brain, stupidity is hurting me.
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