Intergalactic Summit

I think trying to actually describe the situation in a sensible way would work a good deal better than to try and mock the concerns of others.

The point Mr. Merdaneth actually made is that the Minmatar are not upset about slavery. We are upset about the Amarr having taken our people, and we would be upset about it regardless of whether it is slavery, imprisonment, treatment as rightless children, or forced military service. The way some Minmatar focus on the slavery issue is missing the actual problem. For the issue the Minmatar have, it's irrelevant whether slavery is ethically justified, whether the Amarr enslave each other, or other such details, what is relevant is that the Amarr have attacked our people, have oppressed them for 800 years, and still hold many of us captive. This is the issue we seek to rectify.

This realization, though, does not affect the discussion on whether slavery is ethical or not at all. That is a completely different discussion. In the "story" of the OP in this thread, the only result would be that the discussion switches to whether "mandatory conscription for indefinite periods" is ethical, whether a legal age of 100 years is ethical, or whether religious imprisoning or prisoner abuse is ethical. The post does not provide any particular argument on whether slavery is or is not ethical.

This is roughly the one hundredths attempt of Merdaneth to take some concepts into ridiculous extremes, showing that they then look vaguely like slavery, and trying to imply that hence, those who accept the basic forms of those concepts as ethical also must accept slavery as ethical ("fallacy of false continuum"). Hence it's no wonder that so few people bothered with a more elaborate answer.

No, Mr. Blake. I run a charity which deals with the victims of abuse, wherever they come from and, frankly as I see it the more pious a holder is, often the more abusive they are. There are of course notable exceptions to that rule but it is what I've found doing.. what I do.

I also include my own personal experience, from the holders that I've had. Of five in my time, three were positively abusive. One was at first, but changed and one was just.

Not to mention those in my care from a plethora of other holders. Add another 523 to that five. All abused in ways which have broken them psychologically and physically. I pray that the Empress ends this barbaric practice as soon as possible, and in the meantime introduces some checks and balances on holders.

Alright, the holders I have dealt with and those who's work I have seen. Out of that number of.. around 700. Few, if any have made a good impression.

Actually, I believe in an enviroment like the Intergalactic Summit some magnification of specific aspects do wonder to keep people interest. This is how irony and humor often works as well. You take extreme examples to clearly focus the debate on specific aspects of the problem at hand.



I actually think you have a good point there, thank you for providing some additional insight into the Matari psyche.




That is indeed a quite different debate. I am merely trying to point out that many of the arrows directed at the institution of slavery miss their mark. They seem to be shot at it with other motivations behind them. Slavery is merely the biggest red dot on the target to hit.

I would be quite impressed if you could get them to individually validate your claims here for everyone to see.

Why would you think those holders would treat children and/or pets responsibly, but not their slaves?

Precisely. There needs to be legislation to protect slaves, because, frankly the Empire is shooting itself in the foot which, as an Imperial Subject, I cannot stand by and watch.

I said I did trust the holders to treat their pets and children responsibly, Merdaneth. However, slaves are a different matter. The racism and their treatment as property often leads to Holders treating them differently then other dependents and often in a worse manner than other dependents. There is a stigma attached to a slave, a dehumanizing effect which makes many holders treat them in a manner less than human.

Well its important we address yet again the vast difference of Amarrian slavery and other types.

Yes slaves are property but they are still souls the holder is deeply responsible for. Under Amarrian law unlike most property you point out can't be 'disposed of' on a mere whim. They are still people like everyone else. They are better compared to conscripts and soldiers and prisoners because these people in times of duty do no have their freedom but are still people.

I know the Matari and Gallentean governments and social support circles would love to make everyone believe that Amarrian slaves are the down trodden, daily beaten and living in shack huts working sixteen hours a day.

Sorry to disappoint but that's far from the case.