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FW: I-hub and system upgrades

First post First post
Author
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#501 - 2012-10-15 15:22:07 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
If FW is to be used as a rough template for null sov


It's not. Roll

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#502 - 2012-10-15 15:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Hans what did you think of Jesters post earlierTwisted. Might be over reacting but pushes should be harder right.

Even with some systems pushed to use 50% more LP there is a whole lot of LP out there.

Bucky has the numbers in place already if anyone is interested.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#503 - 2012-10-15 15:28:00 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
beside the patch. are the other things still on the roadmap? (e.g: no vulnerable system farming, npc block contesting, lp payout changes, partial lp for defensive plexing ...).


Absolutely, this is just part of the ongoing phased preperation for Dust, and a lot of it is handled by a separate team from CCP Fozzie, CCP Ytterbium, and the rest of the gang who are focused on the core FW fixes. All those other things you mentioned are still being worked on and still in the pipeline for Retribution.

Quote:
Also: why is there no lp payout for pods anymore? It stopped for some reason. Bounty blog sais that there will be bounty payout for pods... so we should get the lp too IMO.


I've been getting LP for podkills....maybe this is some new bug? Are others having this problem as well?

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
#504 - 2012-10-15 15:31:03 UTC
Dal and Siseide have no temperate planets but Raa has three. That's funny. This is a nice Amarr boost in the short run. A plex run offensively or defensively in kam/Kourm/huola will net close to .8 contested movement for Amarr but only .6 for Minmatar. That adds up.
Gimble Revo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#505 - 2012-10-15 15:39:49 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I've been getting LP for podkills....maybe this is some new bug? Are others having this problem as well?


Killed a few pods yesterday and received no LP for them. One of them was worth 40m ISK so I thought it was weird that I didn't get anything for it.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#506 - 2012-10-15 15:48:52 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Hans what did you think of Jesters post earlierTwisted. Might be over reacting but pushes should be harder right.

Even with some systems pushed to use 50% more LP there is a whole lot of LP out there.

Bucky has the numbers in place already if anyone is interested.



Yeah, I've already looked at the number of systems with temperate planets for each warzone, most have very few or no temperate planets at all, and there's only a couple of systems with four temperate planets for the max 50% effect.

Note that this doesnt affect the amount of LP needed to upgrade the systems, only the number plexes needed to push them to vulnerable. Keep in mind that FW pilots are currently plexing systems as much as 200, 300, or 400% PAST vulnerable - so 50% is kind of weak compared to the amount of plexing activity currently.

This will be a small buff for factions like the Amarr who have a chunk of their traditionally Amarrian systems now under Minmatar control (they will be easier to take back), but shouldn't have such a major effect that you won't see Tier 5 spikes anymore or anything melodramatic like that.

I'm not rushing to the LP store myself in a panic, that's for sure.

This will shake things up a bit, and give us a chance to see how the Dust 514 matches will affect us whenever they launch the game onto Tranquility. Many have concerns that CCP is changing too many variables with Retribution, this is a nice opportunity to see one of the variables in isolation, well enough in advance to make adjustments before the Dustbunnies start tearing things up and changing the warzone themselves.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Asthariye
Angry Mustellid
#507 - 2012-10-15 16:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Asthariye
More than 24 hours notice would've been nice though for those of us who live in originally hostile systems with several temperate planets :(


Also, LP for podkills - one of our guys petitioned this the other day after he got no LP for a 1.3bil pod and was told it's not a bug, you should never get LP for pods 'because they have no inherent value' and is part of the FW redesign. I told him to escalate that because it sounds like a load of nonsense but I don't know if he's had a reply to that.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#508 - 2012-10-15 17:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheynan
@Fozzie / Hans

Isn't there any way to get atleast the NPC changes (if they are already finished) or a part of them stealth patched in the near future (read week) ? When I go through lowsec, it feels like the amount of new farming alts is growing exponentially each day.

I don't think we need to have this ISK fountain running for another 1,5 months, its effects are bad enough already.
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#509 - 2012-10-15 17:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

doesnt affect the amount of LP needed to upgrade the systems, only the number plexes needed to push them to vulnerable. Keep in mind that FW pilots are currently plexing systems as much as 200, 300, or 400% PAST vulnerable - so 50% is kind of weak compared to the amount of plexing activity currently.

We all know of course that this level of plexing activity only happens in non-occupied systems.... It's going to change quite a bit with the upcoming patch - so using afk alt plexing as an indicator of how "easy" or "hard" it will be to flip systems with this new feature is misleading at best.

Otherwise, bring it on. More texture to the map is better.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#510 - 2012-10-15 17:34:09 UTC
Asthariye wrote:
More than 24 hours notice would've been nice though for those of us who live in originally hostile systems with several temperate planets :( ....

What does it matter .. isn't everything 9001% vulnerable at this point? Even if you happen to base out of a system that has miraculously evaded the gunless locust swarms, a 50% reduction in needed VP still leaves some 75 plexes that has to be lost ..

This is Dust mechanics, will have close to zero influence on the state of things. 'Tis merely spice to give flavour, the composition and nutritional value of the meal lies elsewhere .. NPC, plex and upgrade changes is where its at (better not muck it up this time CCP!).
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#511 - 2012-10-15 17:48:29 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
@Fozzie / Hans

Isn't there any way to get atleast the NPC changes (if they are already finished) or a part of them stealth patched in the near future (read week) ? When I go through lowsec, it feels like the amount of new farming alts is growing exponentially each day.

I don't think we need to have this ISK fountain running for another 1,5 months, its effects are bad enough already.


Nope. This is all stuff actively being built, than it'll need to go through internal testing, and public testing, before it can be uploaded to Tranquility. Right now, the expected deploy date for all of the FW changes is the Retribution release, it will be highly unlikely we'll see anything sooner.

...and I'll spare the "FW isn't an isk fountain" economics lesson for now since its been thoroughly beaten to death elsewhere. I know it's frustrating for the PvP crowd that will have to hold on for another couple of months until the plexing changes kick in and nerf the amount of AFK ninjafrigs you see around the warzone, but the amount of LP generated right now only benefits an over-inflated economy.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#512 - 2012-10-15 17:49:00 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
UPDATED THREAD 31/08/2012 HERE.

This is a discussion about system upgrades received when donating LP into the FW infrastructure hub, and how to make them more appealing after Inferno. Please refer to the FW blog for more details.


At the moment they are:

  • Upgrade level 1 - 10,000 LPs required: +1 more station manufacturing, ME, PE, invention and copy slots*, 10% price reduction for medical clones (not jump clones), 10% reduction in market / contract broker fees

  • Upgrade level 2 - 25,000 LPs required: +2 more station manufacturing, ME, PE, invention and copy slots*, 20% price reduction for medical clones (not jump clones), 20% reduction in market / contract broker fees

  • Upgrade level 3 - 45,000 LPs required: +3 more station manufacturing, ME, PE, invention and copy slots*, 30% price reduction for medical clones (not jump clones), 30% reduction in market / contract broker fees

  • Upgrade level 4 - 70,000 LPs required: +4 more station manufacturing, ME, PE, invention and copy slots*, 40% price reduction for medical clones (not jump clones), 40% reduction in market / contract broker fees

  • Upgrade level 5 - 100,000 LPs required: +5 more station manufacturing, ME, PE, invention and copy slots*, 50% price reduction for medical clones (not jump clones), 50% reduction in market / contract broker fees

  • Buffer - 100,000+ to 150,000 LPs


* Slots are only given for stations that already have that given activity before upgrade. For instance: a station only having science slots will not receive extra manufacturing slots.

It's a start, but nothing fancy. We would like to iterate on that after Inferno, and we have already heard some good comments, but your input is welcome.


Some ideas, not necessarily in any order:

  • Bring back the cyno jammer, if polished enough to be shot down by neutral third parties. Fanfest taught us it is a very tricky move, so we want to hear from all interested parties here
  • Move station deny docking from being automatic when a system is captured to something that only happens when the enemy upgrade a system to level X
  • Provide science, manufacturing time reduction bonuses to further encourage industry in low-security space


Speaking of which, how do you feel about neutrals having access to your precious upgrades? As explained in the blog, the original goal was to promote an industrial backbone in low-security space, but you may feel differently.



Thanks for your time!



Why not let allies attack an IHUB too? This could also help curb people jumping from one faction to another.
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
#513 - 2012-10-15 18:40:30 UTC
Auga, Lantorn, Vard, and Huola all have one Temperate planet. Dal, Siseide, and Kourm have none. Kamela and Arzad have two. Very interesting....
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#514 - 2012-10-16 11:23:38 UTC
Felix Victrix
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2012-10-16 14:12:46 UTC
What about plex farming alts?! Dont u think that practice must be stopped?!
frettson
Doomheim
#516 - 2012-10-16 14:23:48 UTC
problem with brastraps? what is taking so long :P
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation
#517 - 2012-10-16 14:43:49 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Soko99 wrote:
Not sure if this has been suggested, but 25 pages is a lot to go through....

Not sure if making excuses for not reading before posting or posting in the wrong thread is worse .. hahahahaBig smile

Bottom sticky, called "FW: NPC and you" or something like that, is the thread you are looking for. To save you some time however, let me just say Sleeper level AI and super-speedy NPC inties.

The fact that the NPC thread has been gathering dust for months now can only mean that the majority of us are rather happy with CCP's chosen solution .. I know I am .. exceeded my expectations handedly (had/have low expectations though, because :CCP:, but still Smile)


We are still for the most part waiting for their full implimentation.
From the CCP Feedback, it seems like most of my initial suggestions back in March were actually taken to heart.

I do recall saying at the time that many of the changes I was suggesting weren't exclusive for Faction Warfare but NPCs as a whole, because they're still for the most part not entertaining to engage. Still when you make such a major design change as a suggestion they can take a considerably long time to see fruition.

Provided CCP stick to the plans they have outlined, would definately say they are on the right track.

This said as far as the Complexes themselves go... the whole King of the Hill Mechanics, in my opinion are flawed because as it stands those inside need to WANT to fight; as opposed to HAVING to fight.

I still firmly stand by my original suggestion, that could lead to the inclusion of DUST Marines being used in a more direct capacity down the road. Where a new module is added for Site Capturing, when it is activated it acts like a Siege / Triage module where-by that module cycles every 1 minute... capturing only occurs while the module is active.

Now this could be offset by this person also receives say a 15% (like a DCU) bonus to their resists to increase their survivability, but still not make this a "Safe" job to undertake by any means.

Especially given the cycle time this would greatly reduce the number of "Deer in Headlights" Farmers, additionally so as obviously Speed Tanking would be impossible.

I would also extend out the Incursion Pay-out system to anyone within the Complex (for the side that Captures it) as such, a Minor (worth 10,000 LP) would actually pay-out 2,000 LP but this would be for up to 5 Players... greater than this then the pay-out becomes deminished until at 10 Players you just get a "Thank You"

This would stop the current "You're in my complex" crying that goes on, and actually get players more focused around TEAMWORK. I mean if you earn 2,000 LP with 1 person, or 5 people... who cares about asking friend to help out. It also means those who already work as fleets to do this don't get punished, but you do if you Blob-Fleet.

Attacking Neutrals within a Complex SHOULD NOT BE A SECURITY STANDINGS HIT. The only Standings hit you should receive in a Complex should be for that Faction, I also believe that should a Civilian enter as Navy Police Spawn should show up and "escort" them out... these would be different from the normal defensive spawn in there.

You can claim this would destroy the "good fights" or whatever, but frankly the sheer number of neutral pirate alts that people use in these complexes is beyond a kitten joke. Especially as they also benefit from our hard work to upgrade systems regardless of the side they have decided to fight for ... that frankly is kitten mess and should be dealt with.

Make the damn standings matter, make choosing a side matter!

DISABLE WARTARGETS DOCKING IN EACH OTHERS HIGH-SEC.
I have no issues with the Navy being a push over... but allowing a known war criminal to dock in High-Sec. C'mon, seriously!?

Don't know anyone who was upset about the ability to dock in low-sec, in-fact personally I thought it was a fantastic idea; but for the love of all that it is good it MUST be extended everywhere not just the Warzone. If we want to go to enemy High-Sec most of us have Neutral alts anyway, all this would prevent is the frankly kittenbag move of enemy corporations moving in to High-Sec then using Neutral Logi. Sure some of the changes will kurb that a little bit, but either make the Navy a force to truely be feared or disable High-Sec docking!!

Tags should be removed as an item you pick up, instead change them to "Commendations" they can fill a similar role but are provided automatically to the Player. You can then convert them in batches of 10, 50, 100, 250 Commendation Tokens (like AUR) with the exchange rate based on how much a given corporation likes you.

This still allows you to sell them, but these would be provided exclusively for Kills. The number provided would increase, or atleast increase your chance of a Grade I, II, III based on if it is a Standard NPC, Commander NPC or Player.

LP should still be earnt via Complex / Missions, but I think a small "reward" should also be provided.
Rookie = 1,000 LP + 10,000 ISK [1-5]
Minor = 2,000 LP + 50,000 ISK [5-10]
Medium = 5,000 LP + 150,000 ISK [10-20]
Major = 10,000 LP + 250,000 ISK [20-40]
Unrestricted = 25,000 LP + 1,000,000 ISK [40+]

This should be based against number of people per complex as shown in the brackets for the equal share they receive under that number.
I would also say that EVERYTHING in the LP Store should require "Commendations" / Tags... even if it's a Token amount you can gain in a complex worth of kills, but this would encourage Combat. Especially if High-Grade were awarded frequently from other players.
Mnemic001
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#518 - 2012-10-16 15:06:22 UTC
I don't know if its just me, but i feel that alot of the major issues in FW have not even been adressed. Amarr will still find it difficult to pick up missions to get money because CCP wont allow them to dock in pods and shuttles in the imperial crusade stations. The origionally failed LP system has been nerfed to become even more fail.... why? Because all the LP nulsec alts are now going to disappear, noone will contribute to the system and it will now become impossible to make money for FW for everyone. GREAT.

May i also add there is now going to be even less reason for the amarr to fight back, there is still no incentive for the amarr to regain space and the minitards STILL have minimal targets to shoot.

DONT GET ME STARTED ON DUST.

CCP PLEASE, get rid of this god awfull LP system bring back a sustainable LP store were everyone can maintain some cash, bring back the good fights. ALLOW the amarr to dock/undock in pods/shuttles in their mission stations to get LP. Make it harder for the winning side to keep space and reduce the amount of LP sustained by taking plexs. (as specified on one of my earlyer posts) and make it easier for the loosing side to regain space, and boost the LP they get from taking plexs as well it being less time for them to capture it.

For example
Faction Control
Amarr 50% - 50% Minmitar (No handicaps or incentives given for either side)
Amarr 25% - 75% Minmitar
Minmitar (For every percent over 50% = 2% reduction in LP gained from offensive plexing, so in this case a 50% reduction in LP gained. So instead of 30k for a major it would be 15k.) Same should apply for the amount of time it takes to capture a plex, so instead of 20 mins it would take 30 mins (50% extra time to capture a plex at 75% control)

Amarr (for every percent under 50% = 2% gain in LP gained from offensive plexing, so in this case a 50% Increase In LP gained. So instead of 30k gained for a major it would be 55k.) Same applys for the amount of time it takes to capture a plex, so instead of 20 mins to take a plex it would only take 10 mins. (50% less time to capture a plex at 25% control)

BRING BACK THE GOOD FIGHTS!!!

IF by the patch im still finding gunless merlins capturing plexs, if i can no longer make cash, if i have nothing to fight.... Im about ready to pack my bags and quit FW... im done.
Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
#519 - 2012-10-17 17:44:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I've got a few updates to our plan to share, including one change happening in Inferno 1.3 tomorrow and some tweaks to the earlier described plan taking into account all your excellent feedback and our conversations with the CSM. This stuff affects both this thread and the other one, but I'm just going to post it here because splitting it up doesn't make much sense to me. I'll just link to this post from there, and we can keep the combined feedback here.

Firstly, we have the Inferno 1.3 patch releasing tomorrow which will represent the beginning of the Empires' preparation for the storm of new immortal infantry they see on the horizon. Most of the changes will be invisible to capsuleers, with the significant exception of Empire influence being increasingly exerted on the temperate planets of their contested zones. The four Empires have all begun to construct installations on the surface of temperate planets within factional warfare space that allow them to affect the system control to a limited but noticeable degree.

At this point the installations are being set up by local militias allied with their ancestral nations, so the planet control is being exerted by the original owners of the system, from before any FW sovereignty changes. This means that until the new mercenaries of DUST 514 begin deployment, the planet control will belong to the historical owners based on region (or another way of putting it, the builders of the stargates in each system). For instance, all temperate planets in Black Rise will exert influence for the Caldari, and all temperate planets in The Bleak Lands will exert influence for the Amarrians.

This influence will take the form of an increase or decrease in the number of Victory Points required to make a system vulnerable. If the same Empire controls both the planet and the Infrastructure Hub, the system will become harder to conquer through a higher VP threshold. If one Empire holds the Ihub and the other holds the planets, the system will become easier to conquer through a lower VP threshold. The influence exerted by each temperate planet is 12.5% of the standard VP threshold in either direction. Most FW systems have either one or zero temperate planets, and the maximum number in any FW system is four, giving a maximum possible VP threshold influence of 50% (12.5*4).

This planet influence will be adjustable once the DUST 514 Mercs are unleashed, but in the meantime it will present a static adjustment of the landscape that may influence which systems each Militia chooses to reinforce and base from. This change will take effect with Inferno 1.3 tomorrow.


This is not the way its working on Tranquility. Neither the Patch Notes or the Dev description are reflected in actual game atm. The icon by the contested status bar shows in every system (3000 + 0.0% = 3000) no matter how many temperate Planets in system.

In addition the pre-patch vp for defending 'original sov" systems is actualy LESS than before this patch while atacking side remains the same.....

for example in original Gallente system of Aldranette with 2 Temperate planets, defensive plexs completed take .6 % off the contested status bar... Offensive plexs done add .7% onto Contested status bar.

Pre - Patch defensive plexs took .8-.9 off of the contested bar.
Karasuma Akane
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#520 - 2012-10-18 05:16:51 UTC
Val Erian wrote:
This is not the way its working on Tranquility. Neither the Patch Notes or the Dev description are reflected in actual game atm. The icon by the contested status bar shows in every system (3000 + 0.0% = 3000) no matter how many temperate Planets in system.

In addition to Planetary District status modifiers not showing an effect on System Capture status, the status calculations appear to be borked/screwy today. In my home system (two temperate planets), the System Capture Status bar has been fluctuating between Stable/1% and 13%. I myself noticed the System Capture Status bar go from 13% to 1% in a single flash. Also, earlier today some people were seeing 13% on the bar while others are showing 1% on the bar at the same time. The see-saw has continued throughout the day, with the percentage going back and forth from 1-13% within a few minutes as observed by multiple corp members. What?