These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Expanding EvE with out adding solar systems.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mirima Thurander
#21 - 2011-09-18 00:14:22 UTC
Daedalus II wrote:
I've been thinking about something like this:

* Reduce the acceleration time when going into warp (make it more snappy, like on the login screen).
* Reduce max warp speed a little to compensate.
* Make it so you don't warp through planets and other stuff by having the warp system pick out "redirection nodes" to where the ship will warp. A "redirection node" is like a road crossing where you slow down, realign in normal speed, and warp again, automatically. I imagine a typical station-to-gate warp to encompass 3-4 such realignments.

These realignment spots would be fairly similar for ships that travel the same route and would be a prime location to set up pirate camps (the camps can then be avoided by not taking the obvious route gate-to-gate).

I think this will give a feeling of a bit larger space, without necessarily making travel times very much higher, but instead you spend more time realigning at nodes. It will give you a better feeling for the space you are in instead of just blasting past it at max speed.



This sounds quite good really.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2011-09-18 07:09:44 UTC
Daedalus II wrote:
I've been thinking about something like this:

* Reduce the acceleration time when going into warp (make it more snappy, like on the login screen).
* Reduce max warp speed a little to compensate.
* Make it so you don't warp through planets and other stuff by having the warp system pick out "redirection nodes" to where the ship will warp. A "redirection node" is like a road crossing where you slow down, realign in normal speed, and warp again, automatically. I imagine a typical station-to-gate warp to encompass 3-4 such realignments.

These realignment spots would be fairly similar for ships that travel the same route and would be a prime location to set up pirate camps (the camps can then be avoided by not taking the obvious route gate-to-gate).

I think this will give a feeling of a bit larger space, without necessarily making travel times very much higher, but instead you spend more time realigning at nodes. It will give you a better feeling for the space you are in instead of just blasting past it at max speed.


Now try that in a freighter, or even a BS, something that takes a while to align.

All you would do is make travel more annoying. This is a bad thing.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#23 - 2011-09-18 12:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Baljos Arnjak
Danika Princip wrote:
Daedalus II wrote:
I've been thinking about something like this:

* Reduce the acceleration time when going into warp (make it more snappy, like on the login screen).
* Reduce max warp speed a little to compensate.
* Make it so you don't warp through planets and other stuff by having the warp system pick out "redirection nodes" to where the ship will warp. A "redirection node" is like a road crossing where you slow down, realign in normal speed, and warp again, automatically. I imagine a typical station-to-gate warp to encompass 3-4 such realignments.

These realignment spots would be fairly similar for ships that travel the same route and would be a prime location to set up pirate camps (the camps can then be avoided by not taking the obvious route gate-to-gate).

I think this will give a feeling of a bit larger space, without necessarily making travel times very much higher, but instead you spend more time realigning at nodes. It will give you a better feeling for the space you are in instead of just blasting past it at max speed.


Now try that in a freighter, or even a BS, something that takes a while to align.

All you would do is make travel more annoying. This is a bad thing.


I think his idea is the best presented so far. Maybe for freighters, give them a sort of micro jump drive that is used for in-system jumps that doesn't require a cyno and doesn't require as much capacitor as a normal capital (something like 50%) and no fuel. So instead of waiting to align multiple times, they wait for their cap to recharge once. They would probably need their cap recharge bumped up a bit to keep travel times the same, but that's just a stat. They would still spend a bit of time at gates recharging, so freighter ganks would still be possible.

It would be annoying for things like battleships but I'm not sure that can be avoided given the nature of the problem.

On a side note, his redirection nodes would be prime real estate to put interesting things to see. Stuff like derelict wrecks, wrecked stations, maybe NPC POS's with in-space agents, nebula, monuments, etc. It would be a good place to show life happening that doesn't take place at stations or gates.
Mirima Thurander
#24 - 2011-09-18 15:41:03 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


Now try that in a freighter, or even a BS, something that takes a while to align.

All you would do is make travel more annoying. This is a bad thing.



I don't see how it would be that Big of a problem, yes its a freighter its MASSIVE and full of stuff, there for it moves like a brick.
BS are not really that bad.

I see that you don't want it to take longer to get somewhere in a freighter but would it truly be a bad thing for freighter to go slower?

It would open up more markets for smaller people to move items and trade off the main freighter trading paths because no one wants to make 12 extra jumps to a dead end system to supply that small group of mission runners in a freighter because it takes so long.


Its all about expanding how big space feels, and that would go a long ways to helping make space feel bigger.



All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Raw Matters
KRAUTZ IN SPACE
Parallaxis Alliance
#25 - 2011-09-18 22:08:00 UTC
I am not sure about your preferences but I actually love to DO something while playing Eve, and watching the warp tunnel while flying somewhere is everything but interesting. Do that in a freighter and you know what "wasting time" actually means.

I am very much against stretching the time it takes to get somewhere even further.
Juil
Royal Society for Prevention of Cruilty to Drones
#26 - 2011-09-19 03:48:49 UTC
leave the Warp Times alone, it takes over a minute to warp a freighter through some systems.. that's right 1 AU a second compared the multi AU's of most ships..

Battleships are almost as slow but the Orca and Freighter would be killed by changes to the Warp Times.

Just because you think Space needs to be made bigger doesn't mean every one else thinks your way of doing it is right..

On the overview stuff.. of course it's going to show you the planets etc etc.. Visable light travels at 1 light second every second, that means that when you jump into a system your sensors immediately can lock onto the planets etc in the system because their VISABLE using a standard telescope on a mark one eye ball if you had to get that low tech. Plus the systems kinda have all those lovely charts etc.. because they are 'charted' systems. You'll notice the diffrence in W-space, it doesn't have the infrastructure in place, so no local, nothing but the planets on overview.

You want to make space seem 'bigger' and thus eve 'bigger' let us make stuff ourselves like discussed in the small holding etc.. I want a house of my own.. i make a deadspace complex of my own.. give the players the same 'tools' the NPCS apparently have.
Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-09-19 08:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus II
If my idea were to be used, and we don't want to expand the time it takes for freighters and battleships to get from point A to point B, it's not that hard to just modify their warp speed to make the actual warping take a very short time, and having alignment being the primary time guzzler.

Say that it takes 2 minutes in a specific system for a freighter to get between two gates today. Then say that with my system it would require two realignments. Well then you knock off 30 sec * 2 (if it takes 30 sec to align) to the time it takes to warp, perhaps making it warp as fast as (or faster than!) any other ship, but align slower. End result; same time as today, but with more time out-of-warp realigning.

Edit: To simplify, just give all ships the exact same warp speed. Then the time it takes to get from point A to point B will be solely dependant on the alignment time (agility) of the ship. And as smaller ships are more agile than large ships, the end result will be the same as today, with small ships being quicker in warp.
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#28 - 2011-09-19 11:34:39 UTC
Juil wrote:
Just because you think Space needs to be made bigger doesn't mean every one else thinks your way of doing it is right..
Correct, it needs a game mechanic reason. Something -- on a global game design level -- which makes it worthwhile. As I understand, these realignment spots would be additional places in space for camps. That is something to be considered as positive.

Then again, some 'dictor pilots know how to set up bubbles right in the warp vectors. These tactics would be severely hindered -- not good.

Personally, seeing our ships warp through planets and stations makes me just sick it is so awful !

Juil wrote:
You want to make space seem 'bigger' and thus eve 'bigger' let us make stuff ourselves like discussed in the small holding etc.. I want a house of my own.. i make a deadspace complex of my own.. give the players the same 'tools' the NPCS apparently have.
That is a good point, too. CCP Spitfire already noted the similarities.
Mirima Thurander
#29 - 2011-09-19 13:42:51 UTC
so, so far we have


Warping through planets bad.

Freighters going to slow with changes bad. - debatable

Drop out points for realigning OK.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
David Xavier
The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought
#30 - 2011-09-19 14:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: David Xavier
A better solution would be to give the players the option:

- Plan the warp route by placing waypoints with the use of the system map from witch our nav. computer plots the arc of the warp (continuous warp, no drop outs and re-aligning) These could be saved for later use.

- Just target the other gate for example, but be prepared that if your path would lead through any solid object or strong gravitational field you will drop out of warp near them (for safety reasons).

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#31 - 2011-09-19 14:42:28 UTC
David Xavier wrote:
A better solution would be to give the players the option:
...
- Just target the other gate for example, but be prepared that if your path would lead through any solid object or strong gravitational field you will drop out of warp near them (for safety reasons).

Interesting. Choice is always good.

But : how would you move to a point then, which again has a "clear" path to the destination and allows to warp again ? Imagine you drop out of warp at point blank in front of a planet. Now you will have to travel a distance greater than the radius of the planet in order steer clear. At impulse speed ... unthinkable in a freighter.

Or you warp to any other celestial object in a 180° hemisphere "behind" you. In front of you is the planet blocking the path. With some bad luck, the only other charted object would be the point you departed from ( in a very empty solar system that is ). There might not even be a moon to warp to in order to allow a clear warp to the original destination.


Let me state as general personal opinion : travel does not have to be "easy" nor "instant". The whole point of travel and jump gates and the like is to give interaction points and create scarcity via game design ( besides the technical necessities of the TQ cluster, but that is not a game-play reason ). They do not add anything to the personal game experience other than a "waste of time". You could argue that all warping and traveling is unnecesary burden and you should be able to instantly travel to any point in the galaxy at a click of a button. From a purely personal perspective, you would be right.

Yet, we don't argue like that. Because the personal view is not all that is required to make a nice game. Traveling adds interaction points, which are a potential risk of being shot down. Since that is "good" in the sense of EVE's game design, adding further cannot be bad by default.

It ties into the jump bridge nerf : travel must take time and be burdensome to "naturally limit" projection of power and goods. Scarcity drives the enonomy. The whole point is artifical creation of a resource allocation problem to be solved by the player.
Mirima Thurander
#32 - 2011-09-19 15:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Erik Finnegan wrote:
[quote=David Xavier]


Let me state as general personal opinion : travel does not have to be "easy" nor "instant". The whole point of travel and jump gates and the like is to give interaction points and create scarcity via game design ( besides the technical necessities of the TQ cluster, but that is not a game-play reason ). They do not add anything to the personal game experience other than a "waste of time". You could argue that all warping and traveling is unnecesary burden and you should be able to instantly travel to any point in the galaxy at a click of a button. From a purely personal perspective, you would be right.

Yet, we don't argue like that. Because the personal view is not all that is required to make a nice game. Traveling adds interaction points, which are a potential risk of being shot down. Since that is "good" in the sense of EVE's game design, adding further cannot be bad by default.

It ties into the jump bridge nerf : travel must take time and be burdensome to "naturally limit" projection of power and goods. Scarcity drives the enonomy. The whole point is artifical creation of a resource allocation problem to be solved by the player.







QFT

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-09-19 15:55:17 UTC
I have issues with this.

With the implementation of gravity fields or required line of site, new camps would be added.

Lets say you blast through a gate camp, well, guess what, now you have to blast through a planet camp, then a moon camp, then a station camp, then another planet camp.... So on and so forth

In a lot of systems there isn't a way that the line of site system would work without adding more planets, moons, and whatever else.

Just flying back to a station on the other side of a planet would be a pain in the @ss.

Would require a huge in game physics change that quite frankly, CCP isn't going to do.

Doesn't expand on eve at all, it only makes it more tedious.


My favorite suggestion so far is the implemented use of systems.

There are many systems in eve of high sec, low sec, and null sec that aren't used at all for a few reasons.

1) lack or, or limited asteroids
2) lack of stations
3) lack of agents
4) lack of or limited planets usable for PI

There are other reasons that are more or less player dictated.

Mission runners don't like to be in a system 1 jump from low sec cause agents will attempt to send you to low sec, would be one.

So to expand on space and get these empty systems to have people in them. CCP needs to

1) add new belts to systems with no belts
2) add stations to systems without stations
3) Add more agents available in lower populated areas to spread out the crowds
4) Add more PI to some systems
5) Add more lvl 5 mission agents spread out throughout low sec in eve
6) Give some systems a reason to exist with PI, mining, or missioning, such as these systems have a higher chance or anoms, wormholes, and/or dead space complexes, giving people a specialised reason to go there.

Eve is pretty vast as it is. Go to one side of high sec, and then set a route clear to the other side. now try and fly that route and tell me if you're not annoyed at the distance of travel.

Eve is quite vast as it is. The reason why it wouldn't seem so is because the layout of said eve actions is limited to certain areas which increases population density. Kinda like New York city versus a small town. The availability of certain things is a lot of times what determines population.

So if you want eve to seem more vast then allow more to be done in more places, which thins out the population in other places.

Players are going to go where the action and the goods are. Adding more content to currently boring systems will help to spread out the population as well as creating more trade hubs to counter the more spread population.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#34 - 2011-09-19 16:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I think the warp speeds of ships are fine as they are now.

Yes, I would perhaps look into fixing the warping through a planetoid thing, to add a sense of realism to the warp mechanics, but aside from that, this topic went to all the wrong places.

To expand Eve without adding new space, finish Incarna and then allow offline mode to flourish and expand station/POS/planet/moon/ship/capship - side action in offline mode so much, that players would never have to "board" a ship and undock to play Eve if they so inclined.

Eve would become so big, that the amount of players (cough* the blob* ) focusing on space ship pew pew would probably decrease as more players would prefer to setup bars, casinos, planet side empires etc. This would lead to over all less traffic in existing space lanes and would probably shrink the active fleets of most 0.0 alliances, which implies more room for everyone no matter where you prefer to go.

Here's some ideas on expanding PI for example:

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Mirima Thurander
#35 - 2011-09-19 16:36:40 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I think the warp speeds of ships are fine as they are now.

Yes, I would perhaps look into fixing the warping through a planetoid thing, to add a sense of realism to the warp mechanics, but aside from that, this topic went to all the wrong places.

To expand Eve without adding new space, finish Incarna and then allow offline mode to flourish and expand station/POS/planet/moon/ship/capship - side action in offline mode so much, that players would never have to "board" a ship and undock to play Eve if they so inclined.

Eve would become so big, that the amount of players (cough* the blob* ) focusing on space ship pew pew would probably decrease as more players would prefer to setup bars, casinos, planet side empires etc. This would lead to over all less traffic in existing space lanes and would probably shrink the active fleets of most 0.0 alliances, which implies more room for everyone no matter where you prefer to go.

Here's some ideas on expanding PI for example:




are you stalking me?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#36 - 2011-09-19 16:40:51 UTC
Had a bad day @ the office. Came home to eve forums, saw fail ideas, spared no1.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Mirima Thurander
#37 - 2011-09-19 17:00:20 UTC
So you attack me i see how it is...

my ideas are guuders leaveem be

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#38 - 2011-09-19 19:08:25 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Expanding EvE with out adding space.

I had an idea but the more i thought about it the more it just seamed to be not enough, so how would you go about making EvE seam bigger with out adding in more solar systems?


Simply increase distances between all objects, increase distances by factors of say 10x, spreading asteroid belts, planet/moon orbits, all objects further apart. Shipping something to another region/part of the universe should be difficult to do.

Increased travel time and so many more places to hide/kill rats/mine/pvp/pve/do whatever. The kind of scale increase I am thinking of is near scale of constellations, so each solar system would be more spread out. Or even a 10-system constellation filled with 5 planets each...convert each system to 50-planet system but spread out of the size of the constellation.

Use some system that follows logic. For example, the railroads created towns every 15-minutes due to water refills for steam engines. Not saying huge distance, just enough to keep one red in system very busy if they are solo.
Mirima Thurander
#39 - 2011-09-20 01:36:18 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Expanding EvE with out adding space.

I had an idea but the more i thought about it the more it just seamed to be not enough, so how would you go about making EvE seam bigger with out adding in more solar systems?


Simply increase distances between all objects, increase distances by factors of say 10x, spreading asteroid belts, planet/moon orbits, all objects further apart. Shipping something to another region/part of the universe should be difficult to do.

Increased travel time and so many more places to hide/kill rats/mine/pvp/pve/do whatever. The kind of scale increase I am thinking of is near scale of constellations, so each solar system would be more spread out. Or even a 10-system constellation filled with 5 planets each...convert each system to 50-planet system but spread out of the size of the constellation.

Use some system that follows logic. For example, the railroads created towns every 15-minutes due to water refills for steam engines. Not saying huge distance, just enough to keep one red in system very busy if they are solo.




I'm not understanding you.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#40 - 2011-09-20 01:51:41 UTC
You know which game had bigger star systems then EvE?

Freelancer.

You should check it out.

Signatures should be used responsibly...