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Question/s to null and low sec players.
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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#41 - 2012-05-10 03:06:19 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
You just set your med clone and kill yourself.


Where's the fun in that? I've always gotten there the ole fashioned way.

Quote:
Again, you really have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and unless you want to act as a caricature for us to use as examples, I suggest you just stop.


Sorry to interrupt all your sweeping generalizations about hisec people you never interact with. Your flawed thinking and flawed assumptions have failed to get people to leave hisec time and time again already, but please, go on.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#42 - 2012-05-10 03:08:20 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
You just set your med clone and kill yourself.


Where's the fun in that? I've always gotten there the ole fashioned way.

Quote:
Again, you really have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and unless you want to act as a caricature for us to use as examples, I suggest you just stop.


Sorry to interrupt all your sweeping generalizations about hisec people you never interact with. Your flawed thinking and flawed assumptions have failed to get people to leave hisec time and time again already, but please, go on.

I'm sorry, you said you were afraid of gates and then told him his reasoning for how you can avoid them is flawed.

Tickles totally /threaded your miserable ass.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-05-10 03:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Tickles
Bane Necran wrote:
Sorry to interrupt all your sweeping generalizations about hisec people you never interact with. Your flawed thinking and flawed assumptions have failed to get people to leave hisec time and time again already, but please, go on.


Please, point some of this flawed thinking and assuming out. I also find it hilarious that apparently my ideas have not only already been implemented by CCP without my knowledge, but apparently have also already failed. Talk about a roller coaster ride of emotions from that revelation.

If you want to demonstrate for us the thinking of someone who has never left hisec, then do so by all means. But please stfu about everything past that first lowsec gate because you obviously have no ******* clue at all (edit: again, unless you want to act as a caricature for hilarious misconceptions and falsehoods about the world beyond hisec).
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-05-10 03:10:33 UTC
does bane necran ever get tired of being smacked down after trying to dictate how game mechanics and tactics work that he's never experienced himself first hand?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-05-10 03:11:44 UTC
:amarrfist:
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2012-05-10 03:12:43 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Obviously something needs to change about the new player experience in hisec , where this aversion to risk is either inculcated or violently rejected in some unnecessary battle for the new players' soul.

I would actually have np with there being some pretty high-end incentives in hisec for people who work together and compete against others. It can't be higher than the avreage for null/low/whs, but it doesn't have to be at all abysmal.

Basically, if you can manage to get a player to get blown up willingly and blow somebody else up, you've pretty much got them hooked for life.
“Oh hai, noobsuleer, want a suicide mission? Please go to 4C-B7X and fetch me some kippers. I'll pay you 1M ISK and 45k SP for every low or nullsec jump you make, and if you actually manage to come back with my kippers in one piece, I'll double it!

On a… ehrm… completely unrelated note, let me tell you about the clone and insurance system…”
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2012-05-10 03:13:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
does bane necran ever get tired of being smacked down after trying to dictate how game mechanics and tactics work that he's never experienced himself first hand?

No.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-05-10 03:15:10 UTC
The real shame is that I'm sure these guys spout these utterly uninformed falsehoods at all kinds of new people in venues where we don't have the option of slapping them down hilariously.

Probably one of the best things you could do is forcefully biomass everyone who sits in npc corp chat and terrible hisec corps vomiting up dagaming bullshit about topics they know nothing of, thereby perpetuating these misconceptions and perverting the development process of new players.
Nostradamouse Riraille
S.M.U.G.G.L.E.
#49 - 2012-05-10 03:17:23 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
1) If you were CCP, how would you get more players involved in 0.0 space and low sec - without compromising or getting rid of high sec completely?


The main reason players are afraid of low and null sec is because they never go and it slowly grows over time to be some monstrous death zone where only the most skilled players could ever go. Players start thinking 'maybe when I finish another 6 months of skills I'll go there' and they never feel comfortable with the idea of going.

GSF tries to make sure that newbees get out to 0.0 within hours of joining the alliance to avoid this from happening.

Players will get more involved in 0.0 and low sec when they realise it's not an instakill death fortress, I'd recommend that everyone who is afraid of 0.0 to create a trial account, train it up for a day (at most) and then go into low sec and realise how only a handful of systems are dangerous.

PS: Moving content won't force people to leave because the issue isn't one of risk vs reward at all, it's 'fear of the unknown'. High sec players will just start grinding the less profitable activities instead.

Yea, I did that and got killed and podded by gate bubblers within 5 minutes as the bubble was placed on the exit of the gate...

Thank God I'm only a month old player flying in a tristan without too many implants... But eh, I garnished the killboard of 10 gankers shooting at me.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-05-10 03:18:10 UTC
This is true, another good justification to ban NPC corps is to stop these trashlords from poisoning the rookie corp chat well with tales of the null/lowsec boogie man.
Shian Yang
#51 - 2012-05-10 03:21:06 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
As many that play this game know, there is an underlying issue that plagues EVE and that is that null and low sec players wish to have more high sec players join them in those areas of the game. This topic has been discussed in hundreds of threads across a wide spectrum of topics and often ends with neither side conceding ground. So the question is....

1) If you were CCP, how would you get more players involved in 0.0 space and low sec - without compromising or getting rid of high sec completely?

Or...

2) Would you just rather see high sec completely removed? If that is the case, how would you introduce new players into the harsh realities of a game where they can be ganked on sight just for joining the game?

3) If you believe that high sec, low sec and 0.0 can co-exist, what is your solution to bringing balanced game play to 0.0, low and high sec space that is amiable to all concerned?

If you could answer these questions I am sure there are people that would love to hear your answers.


Greetings capsuleer,

New capsuleers, with the exception of their training systems, can be ganked and podded on sight. They are not safe in high-security space. This is a fine point, but a critical one.

Were this my universe I would do the following (In very broad strokes):


  • Remove the concept of security
  • Rework the economy so Empires earn income from their activities and track this as their operating budget
  • Rework CONCORD so it is an Empire based navy with realistic ships and fits (Balanced so they can be destroyed but so they will have a strong numerical advantage)
  • Generate a quick developer scriptable environment for these Empire NPC navies to allow for rapid response to player events if desired
  • Allow for capsuleers to place Stations and grow them, just like Empire NPCs
  • Treat capsuleer corporations the same as NPC corporations
  • Allow for capsuleers to use Faction Warfare to capture sections of what is currently low security space to extend the size of their empire (Increasing budgets and so forth)
  • Leave null-sec as it is


In short, all space would be equal. Security would come from the capsuleers and empires holding the space. Capsuleers must have the ability to setup their own empire the same as current null-sec capsuleers are doing.

Regards,

Shian Yang
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-05-10 03:22:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
This is true, another good justification to ban NPC corps is to stop these trashlords from poisoning the rookie corp chat well with tales of the null/lowsec boogie man.


Yup, I am quite serious about it being a real problem. Unfortunately my solution is less serious.

My guess is any "kickout" system for npc corps would end up just being a big mess, and easily circumventable by those sad souls who like to be big fish in a little pond.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-05-10 03:23:00 UTC
Nostradamouse Riraille wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
1) If you were CCP, how would you get more players involved in 0.0 space and low sec - without compromising or getting rid of high sec completely?


The main reason players are afraid of low and null sec is because they never go and it slowly grows over time to be some monstrous death zone where only the most skilled players could ever go. Players start thinking 'maybe when I finish another 6 months of skills I'll go there' and they never feel comfortable with the idea of going.

GSF tries to make sure that newbees get out to 0.0 within hours of joining the alliance to avoid this from happening.

Players will get more involved in 0.0 and low sec when they realise it's not an instakill death fortress, I'd recommend that everyone who is afraid of 0.0 to create a trial account, train it up for a day (at most) and then go into low sec and realise how only a handful of systems are dangerous.

PS: Moving content won't force people to leave because the issue isn't one of risk vs reward at all, it's 'fear of the unknown'. High sec players will just start grinding the less profitable activities instead.

Yea, I did that and got killed and podded by gate bubblers within 5 minutes as the bubble was placed on the exit of the gate...

Thank God I'm only a month old player flying in a tristan without too many implants... But eh, I garnished the killboard of 10 gankers shooting at me.


So you died and nothing bad happened, that's great - now get back out there again. (I recommend a different route).
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-05-10 03:24:19 UTC
Nostradamouse Riraille wrote:

Thank God I'm only a month old player flying in a tristan without too many implants... But eh, I garnished the killboard of 10 gankers shooting at me.
My first foray into 0.0 was 4 years ago by using EVE-central to determine that there was a really good deal on mexallon in Syndicate, so I decided to fly my bestower blindly through PF- and sneak out the mexallon all ninja-like. Needless to say, I didn't succeed, so I started to puzzle out what exactly I did wrong and how to improve the odds of succeeding on my next attempt. Others seem to have decided that was how 0.0 was like everywhere and that if they didn't succeed on their first attempt, obv. noone anywhere could succeed.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-05-10 03:24:37 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
As many that play this game know, there is an underlying issue that plagues EVE and that is that null and low sec players wish to have more high sec players join them in those areas of the game. This topic has been discussed in hundreds of threads across a wide spectrum of topics and often ends with neither side conceding ground. So the question is....

1) If you were CCP, how would you get more players involved in 0.0 space and low sec - without compromising or getting rid of high sec completely?

Or...

2) Would you just rather see high sec completely removed? If that is the case, how would you introduce new players into the harsh realities of a game where they can be ganked on sight just for joining the game?

3) If you believe that high sec, low sec and 0.0 can co-exist, what is your solution to bringing balanced game play to 0.0, low and high sec space that is amiable to all concerned?

If you could answer these questions I am sure there are people that would love to hear your answers.


Greetings capsuleer,

New capsuleers, with the exception of their training systems, can be ganked and podded on sight. They are not safe in high-security space. This is a fine point, but a critical one.

Were this my universe I would do the following (In very broad strokes):


  • Remove the concept of security
  • Rework the economy so Empires earn income from their activities and track this as their operating budget
  • Rework CONCORD so it is an Empire based navy with realistic ships and fits (Balanced so they can be destroyed but so they will have a strong numerical advantage)
  • Generate a quick developer scriptable environment for these Empire NPC navies to allow for rapid response to player events if desired
  • Allow for capsuleers to place Stations and grow them, just like Empire NPCs
  • Treat capsuleer corporations the same as NPC corporations
  • Allow for capsuleers to use Faction Warfare to capture sections of what is currently low security space to extend the size of their empire (Increasing budgets and so forth)
  • Leave null-sec as it is


In short, all space would be equal. Security would come from the capsuleers and empires holding the space. Capsuleers must have the ability to setup their own empire the same as current null-sec capsuleers are doing.

Regards,

Shian Yang


Sure, you could do all that.

OR

You could just allow newbie players the option of starting in NPC pirate space, so they can learn that 0.0 isn't the murderous death zone they think it is.
Shian Yang
#56 - 2012-05-10 03:35:25 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:

Sure, you could do all that.

OR

You could just allow newbie players the option of starting in NPC pirate space, so they can learn that 0.0 isn't the murderous death zone they think it is.


Greetings capsuleer Ungabungas,

You would still have capsuleers believing that high-security is defined as safe. And I would wager you would not see as many capsuleers obtaining their licenses training with pirate factions as you believe you will. The ones that do will be the ones that would have gone there anyway.

The fundamental flaw is that capsuleers like capsuleer Arragosa have come to believe that high security space is safe. This is thanks, in part, to the near invincible arm of CONCORD.

Regards,

Shian Yang
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-05-10 04:03:01 UTC
Nullsec is a shithole

Ive been across large swaths of it and its just desperate.

Everyone is constantly scanning everything in sight. and flying to two points before scanning a gate before you jump becomes tedious and you never know whats on the other side, It also does not help that all major routes out of highsec to nullsec seem to be camped 23 hours a day by leet pvpers who bleet on endlessly that highsec should be nerfed


Lowsec is better as its pretty empty and lawless with no politics but there is no incentive to go there. Dont nerf highsec give people a reason to go to lowsec and maybe they will go to null afterwards.


Also gatecamps are for gaywads not leet pvpers.

I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#58 - 2012-05-10 04:05:27 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
As many that play this game know, there is an underlying issue that plagues EVE and that is that null and low sec players wish to have more high sec players join them


No we don't wish to have more high sec players join us. Care-bears are the scourge of the universe. We do, however, welcome high sec players who are willing to change their playstyle and adapt to the demands of nullsec. Those demands being quite simple: being on comms and getting involved in your alliance, alliance activities and most importantly defending alliance space.

Why do we do this? Because multi-player EVE is much more fun than single player EVE, and we simply wish for as many people to participate in that fun as possible.

Unfortunately most high sec players fail to integrate well in nullsec. They believe that the rest of the alliance exists to protect them, mine for them, let them do all the best sites, keep all the loot, give them free ships in exchange for them spamming loss-mails to the killboard. They think that EVE nullsec is " a single player game I play with other people who will drop everything to come and help me the minute I need it". No, honestly, those players should stay in high sec. We don't want them.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-05-10 04:05:35 UTC
did u just diss gatecamping?!?!?!
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-05-10 04:09:47 UTC
The whole sov system needs to be made more complex, involved and rewarding. The biggest deterrent to pve-ers from null is that it is straight up pvp. If you are not at war, you are farming npcs or roaming. At war, CTA CTA CTA. If there was more of a developmental structure to nullsec, things that small groups of pve could roam, or some sort of basis that would get miners and pvers to want to come out to null, the rest would follow.

It all starts with getting them out. Then a few corp reimbursed cheaper ship, after that, they want to pvp.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.