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Tracking disruptor buff v missiles

Author
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-19 16:30:50 UTC
This change is totally cool with me.
Just let missiles hit instantly and do full damage to stationary targets, after all if you're gonna give missiles all the disadvantages of turrets they deserve a few of the advantages.
Lili Lu
#22 - 2012-05-19 23:37:09 UTC
And yet it's funny how already in game every time I shoot a turret at a stationary structure my hit quality always changes, sometimes wrecking sometimes lightly hitting.What?

I've got no problem with new mods that will compete with the easy fitting choices of missile boats where you load the mids with extenders plus resists and the lows with BCUs. That being said they can't make missiles too good against fast or small targets, and thus should be rather weak.
Freyja Asynjur
Folkvangr
#23 - 2012-05-20 01:56:00 UTC
Missiles are fine per themselves: most of the problems of missile boats come from the lack of agility and speed of those ships, which mean they end up, more than often, at closer ranges where their raw DPS doesn't scale up like turrets.

TDs affecting missiles do not compromise missile boats, even less at the current explosion radius penalty, but it opens new viable ways to "tank" a ship other than just piling buffer/resist mods (and right now, every attempts to do otherwise is rendered obsolete by missiles).

Everything that helps shift away from over-tanking everything is a good thing.

-

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#24 - 2012-05-20 16:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Smartbombs and defenders as counters to missiles? hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!111!!

WD I (formerly TD) now increases explosion radius by 17.9% in the hands of my minimally skilled alt. Unfortunately, they don't seem to work right just yet. Or at least they don't work on Rockets.

Also, the QQ here is amazing. I fly nothing but missiles. In fact, about 450k of my 500k SP in gunnery is weapons upgrades and advanced weapons upgrades.

Experimental data: Motionless Rocket Hawk vs Atron orbiting Hawk at ~5100m. Full speed: 445m/s, webbed speed 231m/s. SigRad: 36m, TP SigRad: 46m. Hawk fires one Scourge Rage rocket without any webs or TP, then one for each, and then one for both. Set is then repeated under the effects of 2x Weapon Disruptor Is. Scourge Rage rocket stats: Er: 30m, Ev: 210m/s.

I noted that while disrupted, my explosion radius showed no change from its normal value. The categories of EWAR used by the Hawk are: None, 1x Stasis Webifier I, 1x Stasis Webifier I + 1x Target Painter 1, and finally 1x Target Painter I.

Undisrupted: 35.6, webbed: 60.1, Web+TP: 60.1, TP: 45.
Double Disrupted: 35.6, webbed: 60.1, web+TP: 60.1, TP:44.9

The results show that weapon disruption of missiles is either broken, does not work on rockets, or is completely useless. Disrupted or not made no difference.

Since signature radius is not something that can be reduced easily, velocity is generally the way to reduce incoming damage. Explosion Radius disrupting won't make much of a difference to missiles, unless used against something that is shooting a slow target.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Arec Bardwin
#25 - 2012-05-20 21:40:08 UTC
Soldarius wrote:

The results show that weapon disruption of missiles is either broken, does not work on rockets, or is completely useless. Disrupted or not made no difference.

On the sisi dump only tech I and tech II tracking disruptors are changed with the new missile effects (not named ones). Could you try a test with regular missiles as well?
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-21 13:03:31 UTC
The problem with disrupting missiles with the exsisting TD's is that is will become a must have fit.

I'm not against giving people an extra way to make missiles less effective, just that it's the same device you use on turrets as well.

With limited fitting holes, the abbility to disrupt both missiles and turrets with one module will lead to more uniformity.

Why sacrfice a launcher slot for defenders, if you have one module that can protect you to against missiles and turrets.

Personaly I'd rather see defender missiles adjusted to launchers, small, medium and large, in wich case someone could, easaly switch between defender and normal missiles instead of sacrificing a highslot to a small launcher, not unlike f.o.f.'s.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#27 - 2012-05-22 04:12:01 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
The problem with disrupting missiles with the exsisting TD's is that is will become a must have fit.

I'm not against giving people an extra way to make missiles less effective, just that it's the same device you use on turrets as well.

With limited fitting holes, the abbility to disrupt both missiles and turrets with one module will lead to more uniformity.

Why sacrfice a launcher slot for defenders, if you have one module that can protect you to against missiles and turrets.

Personaly I'd rather see defender missiles adjusted to launchers, small, medium and large, in wich case someone could, easaly switch between defender and normal missiles instead of sacrificing a highslot to a small launcher, not unlike f.o.f.'s.


You can use defenders in any size launcher.

And defenders suck, fyi.

Arec Bardwin wrote:
On the sisi dump only tech I and tech II tracking disruptors are changed with the new missile effects (not named ones). Could you try a test with regular missiles as well?


I noted this as well. Since TQ will be down for the Inferno update in the morning when I get out of work, I'll give it a go.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-05-22 09:53:48 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
You can use defenders in any size launcher.

And defenders suck, fyi.




Thanks I didn't know that.

still I rather see them doing something about Defender Missiles than combining them in a TD
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#29 - 2012-05-22 12:37:13 UTC
This change will require that you get explosion radius reduction modules and such to compencate for such effects that do not need to be projected onto a spesific target like the target painter, simply to balance it out with how turrets work with their tracking enhancers.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#30 - 2012-05-22 14:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Ok, so I went back to SISi and tried this again with Standard Rage missiles. Again, the new Explosion Radius reduction stat did nothing. I also reviewed the actual missile damage formula just to be on the safe side. I used the exact same ships and fits, except for a single Standard Missile Launcher II with Scourge Rage Standard Missiles. These have Ev=261 and Er=68. Since the tracking disruptor did squat, I won't bother listing it. Damages were as follows:

No EWAR: 58.2
Web: 69.6
TP: 69.6
Web+TP: 90.4

I found it puzzling how either the web or TP had the same result, and the combination of both was better. Theoretically, this shouldn't happen. So I ran the numbers through the formula manually and discovered that they weren't actually the same. It just looked that way due to rounding. It was just a coincidence that the combination of stats produced identical results.

Just for fun, here's the percentage of damage applied:
No EWAR: 44.35%
TP: 52.42%
Web: 52.94%
TP+Web: 67.65%

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

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