These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Factional Warfare overhaul

First post First post
Author
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-05-09 18:13:52 UTC
PC5 wrote:


2. What about cynojamers? No info about them in devblog. Have you abandoned that idea for FW?

oh yeah, that should be on the iHub upgrade list, they told about it before

anyway, it seems to be nice change for now, i'll give a try later :)
BlindFury
Genbuku.
Psycho Unicorn Squad
#42 - 2012-05-09 18:14:19 UTC
I can't remember if this already happens or not, but why not put datacores as a reward in hacking and analyzing deadspace sites along with the other changes listed?

BF
Sheena Tzash
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-05-09 18:14:20 UTC
Sounds good but I'll try and get the obvious stuff out of the way:

1) How do we participate in FW? Will there be any sort of fleet finder & chat channels specifically available for FW?

2) Are the sites going to be balanced in a way to try and encourage solo and small gang pvp? If not how do you plan to stop / reduce a huge blob dominating FW or blobs camping out the FW sites setting an ambush?

3) How will participation affect my standings? I don't want to do some funtime pvp to find I've wrecked my faction standings and now I can't move into other factions space without being shot at.

4) How will participation affect me in high sec? Will it be open season to anyone flagged for FW or will the usual rules apply?

5) Will rewards be divided equally; even without entering combat? I could forsee fleets employing a dedicated scout to find war targets and I'm sure they'll want to get paid too, even if they don't fire a shot.

6) If we sign up for FW can we pick it up and drop is as much as we want to with affecting standings?

Thats all I can think of for now :D
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-05-09 18:14:48 UTC
Is there any benefit for fighting in a heavily upgraded system as opposed to a lightly upgraded system? better rewards for trying to take a Dominated system as opposed to newly conquered one? or are all payouts the same?
~ i can forsee there being one or two heavily defended systems that everyone uses to cash their LP in using alt couriers(for tags), while all the fighting goes on in contested systems,


How exactly are Datacores being introduced into FW? through LP stores? through FW only research agents? will they still require skills to use?

Why no rebalance of tags needed for individual items? or look at which tags drop from which types of npc ships?

Changes to where FW missions are located? only in contested areas or low upgraded areas?

Who is dropping the ihub? how/when is that dropped? Does all the LP have to be drained out of it first before it can be killed?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-05-09 18:15:42 UTC
BlindFury wrote:
I can't remember if this already happens or not, but why not put datacores as a reward in hacking and analyzing deadspace sites along with the other changes listed?

BF

They already are.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#46 - 2012-05-09 18:16:11 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

All of the people looking for cheap rewards will join the winning faction, which can be good for the losing one if they want to gain heaps of LP from killing clueless people looking for easy money. Plus, it is very hard to swap factions due to the massive standings penalties you take from running the complexes or missions, so it provides reasons for people to stick with their side and drive it forward.

The 4x multiplier seems exaggerated, but it sounds like it would only occur when one side literally owns all FW space and has it all upgraded. I'm expecting more of a 1.5x multiplier maximum with the regular sovereignty swings.


If there's one thing I've learned about Eve, it's that people take things to the max. The 4x modifier will be hit almost immediately. How long did it take FW to be "won" the first time? Not long at all

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#47 - 2012-05-09 18:17:13 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang


There is none. Even the plexing system is set up so you get no rewards for defensive plexing: Until all systems are held by one side both sides will just attack enemy plexes to get LP (and it's just as effective to attack an enemy system as it is to defend your own, and the former gives you LP while you do it).
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#48 - 2012-05-09 18:18:16 UTC
This all sounds incredibly awesome and is making me consider joining. For the first time PVP could truly be profitable and/or sustainable :P

The Drake is a Lie

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#49 - 2012-05-09 18:19:41 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

I don't think player behavior will go that way. I for one would rather join the side that is loosing the war (unless it's amarr... never joining them) because you know there will be plenty of targets and joining the side that is already winning isn't much of an accomplishment. Some people would rather turn the tide of the war than mooch off the side that's winning, besides, you can always have an alt join the other team. Twisted In terms of absolute fighters, the winning side's numbers will probably tend to inflate more quickly... but I don't think victory will be stable as those who want to fight defect for the loosing side.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#50 - 2012-05-09 18:21:44 UTC
Any chance that when this hits, those with RP in the 50RP/DC agents could have those doubled? (You know, like just assume that we were all smart enough to cash out right before, and not make us actually do it at a time you determine?)
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-05-09 18:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Caiman Graystock wrote:
Does this mean that if the caldari militia gain sovereignty over a system that was previously gallente, for instance, that system actually falls under the complete sovereignty of the Caldari State, and becomes Caldari Space whilst it is held?

This is a interesting question - as in will there be faction police hammering my minmatarish jump freighter if my faction loses the sovereignty. That is when I'm not taking part in faction warfare and got rather horrible reputation with the new owner. Couldn't quite find the answer from the blog.

edit: ...and I'm not saying that it would be bad thing - I'm just saying that fair warning would be in place if this is the case.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-05-09 18:23:52 UTC
utility of items in the LP stores for nonFW people will drive most of the FW actual combat, Sale of cheap items from the FW store will drive most of the fighting, however because of the ship loss Lp mechanics, i don't think that there will be huge swings of Sov after the initial drive by Caldari / amarr fleet.

also various regions will have extremely crazy markets for a while

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-05-09 18:24:42 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Is there any benefit for fighting in a heavily upgraded system as opposed to a lightly upgraded system? better rewards for trying to take a Dominated system as opposed to newly conquered one? or are all payouts the same?

The upgrades on SiSi are subsequential market benefits until the defenders fillit it up, the last milestone being a buffer. I'm assuming this is a buffer that has to have its LP taken through plexes to make the system contested.
Kusum Fawn wrote:
~ i can forsee there being one or two heavily defended systems that everyone uses to cash their LP in using alt couriers(for tags), while all the fighting goes on in contested systems,

There are some hi sec militia bases. That's the preferred spot for buying faction ships.
Kusum Fawn wrote:
How exactly are Datacores being introduced into FW? through LP stores? through FW only research agents? will they still require skills to use?

On Sisi, you buy them five at a time. Per unit cost is 200k isk and 200 LP. Capturing more of the warzone will make them cheaper if I read the dev blog correctly.
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Who is dropping the ihub? how/when is that dropped? Does all the LP have to be drained out of it first before it can be killed?

The I-Hub is like the bunker is now and goes nowhere when captured. I'm not sure if the defenders can add LP while the system is contested to add a buffer.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-09 18:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Smacker
Gogela wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

I don't think player behavior will go that way. I for one would rather join the side that is loosing the war (unless it's amarr... never joining them) because you know there will be plenty of targets and joining the side that is already winning isn't much of an accomplishment. Some people would rather turn the tide of the war than mooch off the side that's winning, besides, you can always have an alt join the other team. Twisted In terms of absolute fighters, the winning side's numbers will probably tend to inflate more quickly... but I don't think victory will be stable as those who want to fight defect for the loosing side.

Would you join the side whose enemies could blob at will when they want to lock you out of your home or the ones doing the blobbing for lulz. The latter seems more fun from a gaming perspective even before the economic benefit.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#55 - 2012-05-09 18:28:45 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

All of the people looking for cheap rewards will join the winning faction, which can be good for the losing one if they want to gain heaps of LP from killing clueless people looking for easy money. Plus, it is very hard to swap factions due to the massive standings penalties you take from running the complexes or missions, so it provides reasons for people to stick with their side and drive it forward.

The 4x multiplier seems exaggerated, but it sounds like it would only occur when one side literally owns all FW space and has it all upgraded. I'm expecting more of a 1.5x multiplier maximum with the regular sovereignty swings.


If there's one thing I've learned about Eve, it's that people take things to the max. The 4x modifier will be hit almost immediately. How long did it take FW to be "won" the first time? Not long at all

-Liang

If the Minmatar militia "wins" and captures most Amarr systems, a few things will happen:

  • The bottom drops out of the Minmatar faction stuff market
  • Amarr faction ships become far more expensive
  • Amarr militia old guard will continue attacking FW space and easily taking complexes (because there are so many systems with so many complexes), being able to keep their own wallets up by selling the more expensive items less often.
  • Militia false weather friends will get bored and go do something else when Firetails sell for 2 mil apiece.
  • Possible Amarr resurgence.

Or I could be completely wrong and something else would happen. This is a very large list of changes with very complex consequences, and I'm not sure that we can simply predict what will happen. We will just have to wait and see, and have fun in the meantime.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-05-09 18:30:01 UTC
sovereignty based factionwarcusrions!

i dont want to live on this feature anymore.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

ogletorp
Decisive Persuits
#57 - 2012-05-09 18:33:45 UTC
The changes in datacores will only make invention a less viable profession. As it is an inventor can't compete with t2 original blueprints. Leave datacores alone they are not that great of a passive income and profit margin on invention isn't that great considering that it is chance based.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-05-09 18:35:19 UTC
I'm missing something.

What about the LP gain for podding an Amarrian that had a, example, high grade slave set ?

Don't tell me there's no reward for podding people ?? o_O
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#59 - 2012-05-09 18:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Some concerns with the new system:

Many mods are shared between all factions' FW LP stores. Let's say Gallente win while Amarr and Minmatar are on even ground - the market value of any shared module will be determined by the Gallente militia, and they will cease to be a viable option for LP purchases. Only unique FW LP store options would be viable purchases, like faction ships.

More importantly, you're likely to see a snowballing effect when one side starts winning. If one side starts gaining the advantage, then FW is going to be easymode LP farming all day e'ery day with dirt-cheap faction mod prices and bonuses to LP gain, whereas the loser's side will be virtually worthless from an ISK perspective. You think this will just make the opposing faction fight harder, but people aren't locked into their militias. They will just leave or switch sides. New people wanting to get into the militia will join whichever side is winning for the financial benefits.

I predict that if this change sees TQ as is, the Caldari militia (and perhaps the Amarr militia) will just quit. If not immediately, their numbers will dwindle more and more, and more and more people will join Minmatar/gallente to reap the rewards and FW will become dead except as a means of ISK grinding.

You need to create some mechanism that encourages people to join and stay on the losing side. The price crash of faction ships will somewhat compensate for the LP drain (if Caldari loses then hookbills are going to be so goddamn expensive...), but a significant portion of the FW LP store is shared so I'm not sure that'll compensate enough.


Maybe I'm being paranoid...
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#60 - 2012-05-09 18:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Mike deVoid wrote:
I think this rewards the guys fighting from zero the most - and who deserve it! On the other hand, moving from 80% to 100% of systems should give you the smallest reward since you are already steamrolling the opposition.


In my experience, the market *could* take care of a lot of this issue. We've already seen that the factions with the easiest level 4 missions had flooded the market with their LP store rewards, which were worth less than the other factional items.

As one faction stays dominant in a warzone and continues to accumulate LP, the prices for those items will go down and down on the market, devaluing the LP. The losing end, however, will have the more sought after LP store items, which while more expensive in the LP store could be worth even more by the time they reach the market.

The market will play a huge factor in FW activity from this point on, but in what fashion remains to be seen. Its just not something that's testable in a CCP office of on Singularity. Thankfully CCP has committed to tracking this and adjusting this as needed throughout the coming year and into the winter expansion, which will have even more FW goodies.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary