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New dev blog: Factional Warfare overhaul

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#181 - 2012-05-10 02:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Looks awesome! Smile

Appears to be well thought out and I like the use of Sov elements while clearly staying away from it being Sov. Nice stuff with the Map too. LP is cool and I like how it plays into the whole capture and rewards system. Much more dynamic overall and I like how it impacts gameplay if FW dominated areas.

I think it will result in more use of those systems involved in Faction Warfare and probably encourage players in FW to live there instead of in Highsec with forays into Lowsec FW space.
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
#182 - 2012-05-10 02:31:08 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Popsikle wrote:
Rhaile Vhindiscar wrote:
"You want to do research, fine? The best way is to go kill people." I can see how that would play out to a potential scientist. So, are you really telling industrialist to join fw or just creating an interdependence without any real justification?

Overhaul datacore mining some other way. Get datacores out of FW. It doesn't make sense fluff wise or mechanic wise. You just got done telling people you're not going to let them shoot npcs to build things (drone nerf)...then you tell them you are going to make them shoot npcs to build things (fw overhaul). All you did was change the position in the production chain.


Actually its more like:

"You want to do research, fine but you will need to do experiments on the fringes of empire. The factions don't want explosions in safe space or anything. By the way the stations with the services you need come under attack regularly so you will need to learn how to fight and protect your work. Welcome to the fringes."


Your explanation makes sense if R&D wass just moved to lowsec, but not when you get rewarded with datacores for shooting people and have no prerequisite of learning about the field you are researching.


No, your misreading the blog (or I am). They are removing the multiplier for rp's. You will still be able to do research and get datacores, but you will also be able to get them as rewards in the LP store. So if datacores are your thing, your research agents are important, but so would be factional warfare because it controls the price and availability of datacores.


Quote:
As such, we are removing all field multipliers on research fields, while unifying RP amount to claim one datacore to 100. While this actually double amount of RPs to claim a datacore, we also are introducing a small 10,000 ISK fee per datacore to ensure there is a small cost tied to their retrieval.

We also are introducing datacores to the Factional Warfare LP stores, spilt into each individual faction so there is no market overlap. They are tied to the War Zone control effect on LP store prices, that means offers will dramatically change depending on which side is winning.
Kno Bodeesbitch
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2012-05-10 02:50:56 UTC
Will mining yields be boosted for Faction miners daring to mine in a system held by their faction?

Why are you all looking at me like that?

It could happen... Oops
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2012-05-10 02:53:46 UTC
Popsikle wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Popsikle wrote:
Rhaile Vhindiscar wrote:
"You want to do research, fine? The best way is to go kill people." I can see how that would play out to a potential scientist. So, are you really telling industrialist to join fw or just creating an interdependence without any real justification?

Overhaul datacore mining some other way. Get datacores out of FW. It doesn't make sense fluff wise or mechanic wise. You just got done telling people you're not going to let them shoot npcs to build things (drone nerf)...then you tell them you are going to make them shoot npcs to build things (fw overhaul). All you did was change the position in the production chain.


Actually its more like:

"You want to do research, fine but you will need to do experiments on the fringes of empire. The factions don't want explosions in safe space or anything. By the way the stations with the services you need come under attack regularly so you will need to learn how to fight and protect your work. Welcome to the fringes."


Your explanation makes sense if R&D wass just moved to lowsec, but not when you get rewarded with datacores for shooting people and have no prerequisite of learning about the field you are researching.


No, your misreading the blog (or I am). They are removing the multiplier for rp's. You will still be able to do research and get datacores, but you will also be able to get them as rewards in the LP store. So if datacores are your thing, your research agents are important, but so would be factional warfare because it controls the price and availability of datacores.

You didn't miss anything as far as the content, but missed the point of the post being that Rhaile doesn't think datacores should be tied to FW creating a "shoot people for science" mechanic. While true R&D as we know it is for the most part being maintained it doesn't change the fact that those with no relation to research skills or R&D corps/agents will soon be able to science with their guns.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2012-05-10 03:12:14 UTC
This is it CCP. This is why you lost me and I'd love to continue to buy you another 6 one year subs. /

Please, don't just forget about Factional warfare this time, release at least one more update later, in the winter. Give it some serious followup, encase some of the changes have unexpected side effects, or are broken somehow. You never know what us players are going to do with that code of yours. If it can exploited you better believe someone will find out how.

Please ccp fix your game so I can return without feeling like the game I wanted to play never got fixed. Or any changes in forever, it really made me lose hope in taking your vision seriously. And then with Incarna, I dont' know, I know I'm one player, but I really do hope you guys hit it out of the park with this change. We won't know untill we get into space and try it out.

Just promise to follow up, add or remove things if they don't work! Please!

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2012-05-10 03:29:54 UTC
I never thought CCP would be able to devise a FW expansion that would appeal to both the players that have been playing under the current rules for so many years and still entice all the others who have opted out. Congrats guys.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2012-05-10 03:35:20 UTC
T'san Manaan wrote:
Changes look good so far can't wait to see it go live.

Just some thoughts I would like to see implemented in the future.

1. Missions go to the nearest "Contested" system to keep the mission farmers in the combat zone.
2. Benefits to P.I. and industry (I.E. faster manufacturing) for upgrading systems
3. captured stations use current Sov holder Agents.
4. station lockouts to include anyone with a negative faction standing or outlaw status.

Other than that I like everything I see so far especially the no docking for your enemiesTwisted


YES THIS THIS THIS

what a simple wya to put what I once tried to explain in 3 paragraphs. Do this CCP, do this and all will be epic. And the game will become fun!

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#188 - 2012-05-10 03:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Wolodymyr wrote:
OK so I have a question about these "minor sites", and I really hope a dev or someone who knows how new FW will work will answer it.

So when they talk about "Capturing payouts" are those sites respawning? Or does it work like some sort of king of the hill mechanic?

So can I perpetually run "minor sites" all day long like havens and get 10,000 LP a tick? Or will I have to wait for the enemy militia to come by and take the local "minor site" so I can take it back for 10,000 LP?

Because if they infinitely re-spawn I am joining the minmitar militia and farming sites all day long in relative safety. If they work by a capture the flag mechanic then I am joining the amarr militia and taking out some lazy minmitar pilots.


Oh and about all this whining over datacores. I would rather the profits from datacores actually go to people who are fighting in the militia, rather than carebears who don't give a crap about warring factions or lowsec, and are only there to farm isk.


This is actully somethign I remember being called for 3 years ago. The idea that you can't farm sites. That each system should have 4-5 sites that stay in space all the time. And you gain or loss infulence over a system over time. Which ever side owns more sites will have the timer go in their favor.


Thus expanding the timer mechanic used inside each site to the whole system venerability. Would solve Time zone conflicts and bring conflict into controlling a systems, with some sites being frigate only have whole fleets of small ships getting into fleet brawls. We NEED THAT.


I guess what I'm saying is make frigate only sites just as important and valuable as ones with battleships. The idea being since you limit players to small weaker ships, it is just as hard to clear a small site as it is to clear a large site. becuase in the large site you have better and more powerful ships to help you clear them./?

You can train up for small ships for 2 YEARS OF SKILLS. Let us super frigate pilots have the small ship battlefield be worth just as much towards victory points *not lp payout* Our frigate only sites shoud help turn systems as much as large sites.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2012-05-10 03:47:22 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang


Your missing the datacores. If your whole teams LP rewards go down and the LP cost of LP goes up. then those datacores are going to spike in price. So joining the losing side will be stupidly profitable. Becuase each kill you get and LP reward you manage to find will be wroth more than the other sides datacores.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2012-05-10 03:49:20 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang


Your missing the datacores. If your whole teams LP rewards go down and the LP cost of LP goes up. then those datacores are going to spike in price. So joining the losing side will be stupidly profitable. Becuase each kill you get and LP reward you manage to find will be wroth more than the other sides datacores.

Being that I haven't played much in the markets I must ask, is it really expected that higher costs will lead to greater profits when demand remains the same?
Sarinat Talen
Celestial Arms Manufacturing and Operations
#191 - 2012-05-10 03:59:13 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
gwabakk wrote:
No-one is using research agents because they "give a free income stream". The threshold to gain access to those agents is too high, the "free" profit too little.


Not sure what game you are playing but in EVE-Online that is exactly why people use research agents. In fact most people have research agents because you could easily fund an account through PLEX on datacores alone. Those days are long gone but all those people kept those accounts or just reactivate them one month per year to gain passive income.

You might use research agents to fund your personal t2 invention or whatever but I know people with huge datacore farms of many accounts and they gain a lot of passive income for little work. This is the majority of people using research agents. No amount of whining will change this fact.

Now you have to either interact with other people (gasp) or pvp in FW (double gasp) to gain lucrative items. Interaction and pvp in my EVE? Sounds cool.


Incorrect. RPs do not accumulate on inactive accounts.

I am all for interaction to get DCs. But the current daily missions are untenable with your R&D agents 20-30 jumps away from each other. If DCs were in R&D LP stores, well wouldn't we all be running missions for those corps again? Also the daily R&D missions could show up in your journal like storyline missions. That way you know if your agent wants some trit, or widgets or whatever in advance, so you don't have to go there and then go get it. Though these missions need a revamp in general. The traveling is so brutal it is not worth doing them most of the time. Or add storyline missions to R&D corps (which have a severe lack of them, you will get a storyline agent from a different corp contacting you in many regions) that give out DCs as rewards.

Let me also clarify, getting rid of the multipliers is a great idea. Consistency is good. But doubling the price and moving cores into FW is not. Also, consider releasing level 5 R&D agents if you are going to increase the cost. That way you reward the people who have worked on their standings. I know they are in a database somewhere, I have seen them on the test server before.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#192 - 2012-05-10 04:17:39 UTC
Two thoughts.

1) By allowing the IHub benefits to affect neuts, you are effectively gutting any internal Militia industrial organization by giving the neuts none of the drawbacks (i.e. perma-wardec) and all of the benefits.

2) If Cynojammers were to be included, IMHO, they should be keyed to the Sovereign Militia. Allowing them to have an easier time with logistics while denying their enemies (as well as neuts) the opportunity to drop carriers on their heads.
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#193 - 2012-05-10 04:24:36 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
So can I perpetually run "minor sites" all day long like havens and get 10,000 LP a tick? Or will I have to wait for the enemy militia to come by and take the local "minor site" so I can take it back for 10,000 LP?


System has to be contested for you to be awarded anything. Join Amarr.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#194 - 2012-05-10 04:25:44 UTC
ZenithDK wrote:
This looks pretty awesome!

Have been thinking about getting into FW for a long time, but I didn't see much point in it - with 2 characters doing datacore mining, there will suddenly be a big interest in it for me.

One thing though:
Doesn't this sort of encourage that you take sov, buy all your data cores - loose sov, watch prices spike, and then you dump your cheaply acquired stash?
If a sufficiently large corp in FW can be deciding factor/work together with others, what's to prevent this?



Datacores will get much more expensive until some corps do something like what you have suggested.

The mission runners will leave FW when the update hits TQ leaving only PvPers and plexers who are generally not interested in watching boring markets for fluctuations/trends.

Most players will just purchase the same faction ships that they always have from the LP Store.
So unless industry players want to pay 15x more for Datacores - they better start joining FW.

Moving these Datacores to FW is a brilliant way of getting more targets and their non Militia hauler alts into low sec for everyone to blow up.
If you come to farm Datacores - your hauler alts etc are all gonna die lots. :)


I can see it now - Farm Militia LP, Buy Datacores, Contract to non Militia Alt, Undock, Militia kill your Hauler, tears and lolz in Militia chat.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#195 - 2012-05-10 04:28:12 UTC
Machiko Agota wrote:
Ok, I can understanding linking Datacores to the LP store...but why the Factional Warfare LP store!? I don't see the connection. Unless the goal it to force more players into FW Shocked...

MA


So that you have to haul them from low sec.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#196 - 2012-05-10 04:32:23 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:

So that you have to haul them from low sec.


Confirming that there are no FW stations in high sec.

Datacores are the new technetium!
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#197 - 2012-05-10 04:33:46 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:

So that you have to haul them from low sec.


Confirming that there are no FW stations in high sec.

Datacores are the new technetium!


There are - but the systems in high can't be upgraded. :)

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Sarinat Talen
Celestial Arms Manufacturing and Operations
#198 - 2012-05-10 04:46:09 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Machiko Agota wrote:
Ok, I can understanding linking Datacores to the LP store...but why the Factional Warfare LP store!? I don't see the connection. Unless the goal it to force more players into FW Shocked...

MA


So that you have to haul them from low sec.


Many R&D agents are already in low sec. That doesn't justify DCs in FW LP stores.
raukhur
NorthMount
#199 - 2012-05-10 05:16:48 UTC
PVP loyalty points obviously in the future need to be going to logistic pilots. I mean once the system with logistic pilots on killmails is in place, it needs to be part of the php LP formula too.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#200 - 2012-05-10 06:03:33 UTC
Sarinat Talen wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Machiko Agota wrote:
Ok, I can understanding linking Datacores to the LP store...but why the Factional Warfare LP store!? I don't see the connection. Unless the goal it to force more players into FW Shocked...

MA


So that you have to haul them from low sec.


Many R&D agents are already in low sec. That doesn't justify DCs in FW LP stores.





More targets in low sec - What other justification is needed?


Most people are using high sec R&D agents so the fact that there is already low sec R&D agents is irrelevant.
How many Badger loads of data cores have you shipped from low sec to high sec?

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney