Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Has this been implemented yet?

+1 to Cyno Jammers

Uhh.....no. And it won't be until there's a way to implement the feature without destroying normal gameplay for those not involved with the war in the process. Neutrals run level 5 missions in carriers and use jump freighters to haul in and out of low sec, large alliances rely on lowsec as travel routes, etc. This shouldn't just shut down completely as militias cynojam the crap out of every FW system.

The idea is postponed until a decent system can be figured out. Who deploys the cynojammer? Anyone with LP? A particular corp? An elected "general" ? Is it on a POS, or beamed from the IHUB? Does it affect militias only, or does it affect everyone? How long does it last? Who turns it on and off?

These are pretty serious questions, and CCP was wise not to rush this one particular feature, though I personally LOVE the idea of keeping Pandemic Legion from hot dropping all our fights.

I'll definitely be speaking a lot more with them in the days ahead, I'm glad you all are into it as well, but remember coming up with answers to those questions is way more helpful than just saying "cynojammers! woot! +1" Cause its not a matter of if as much as how.

Also, I don't want to hear any whining about how we're becoming like nullsec if I keep pushing for this, you're the ones asking for it !

I think Tekitha pretty much nailed it.

To add my 0.01 ISK's worth.

Neuts
How many systems would be cyno jammed? Who is going to pour all their hard fought LP's into random systems? You'll probably find two systems jammed in Black Rise and those are the two major FW staging posts. Probably same in most war zones. Only the important systems for FW would be cyno jammed. For example, two weeks ago in Kedama there was an epic fight until supers started getting dropped. To REALLY finish it off NC. dropped a few titans and a lot of supers. For us faction war players that's "OK pack up and go home" time. Now I very much doubt Kedama would ever be cyno jammed and that fight would still happen. However, we could pull back to a cyno system and fight there without titans being dropped on us.

There are a lot of low-sec systems and only a tiny percentage are likely to be ever cyno jammed.

Who "Owns" the jammer
Pilots have to donate LP's. Surely it could be recorded who donates what and what corp they are from. The corp who puts most in, gets most out = cyno jammer

PoS/IHub Location
What Tek said!

Everything else
It works like a normal cyno jammer in null sec/What Tek said.

As far as additional upgrades, I would like to see a few things.

First, I think there should be some benefit to POCOs and PI in upgraded systems. Some ideas are increased shield regen on POCOs. More shield hitpoints on POCOs. A bonus to PI materials extracted from installations belonging to the controlling militia. Some sort of PI material kickback to the corps holding POCOs (ie if my faction has an upgraded system and my corp own a POCO there, I get some number of PI materials sent to my corp based on what is being produced on my planet). Etc...

Second, I'd like to see a bonus to POS fuel usage in upgraded systems.

Third, I'd like to see something like Concord Billboards shoot at enemy militia while in a upgraded system. (Minimal damage, but enough to stop instalocking frigs/destroyers from camping the gates).

Fourth, I'd like to see additional station services added (ie cloning facilities where there was none, manufacturing slots where there were none, reprocessing where there was none, etc).

Fifth, very cheap office rent to the controlling faction corps and not haivng those corps offices count against the office limit.



As far as the cyno jammers, I agree with the intended purpose of limiting the hot drops by outside parties but I'm not sure how to make it feasible. 0.0 alliances should still be able to curbstomp FW corps if they really really want to, but shouldn't be able to do it because they are bored. I think something like controlling the sphere of influence of alliances would be a better solution and make Eve a bigger universe again via something like https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1297883#post1297883.

Hans any feeback / comments on what Tekitha replied to your post with?

Some questions:

If you war dec a militia corp and kill them do you lose faction standings?

What if they are in the npc corp?

What if you want to cyno in something? How will your militia take it down temporarilly and who will decide this?

If only the defending side can have caps in the system won't it be pretty much impossibly hard to take the system?

I work across all strata of security space in my "legitimate business endeavors" and even I can sympathize with the FW guys on the capital and supercap issue. I've seen a lot of hunting of FW pilots by nullseccers but in my experience it's usually small gangs that are looking for a fight, not supercap blobs. The blobs are an anomaly but a serious one. As Hans mentioned though allowing widespread jamming would cause serious logistics issues. As a Goon I can say IF widespread cyno jamming were allowed in FW areas, rest assured the first minute it becomes a nullsec logistics issue someone in FW is going to be staring down the barrel of a 600 body alpha fleet about it. Nobody wants that. It's not a threat, it's just how it would end up happening.

The simplest ( perhaps not most elegant ) solution would be to designate certain systems as un-jammable per local phenomena. If key logistics systems could be identified ( that is the ones necessarily close enough light year wise ) to enable traversal of the region and those systems are designated as no-jammer zones I doubt there would be an issue. I can certainly sympathize with both sides of the argument but restricting additional elements of a ship type ( can't launch fighter bombers/fighters ) seems gamey, and is only asking for other things that don't use them like dreads and titans to come say hi.

Another alternative is perhaps adding just a few non-FW bridging systems near FW areas as an alternate place to move ships, and allow the FW areas their jammers. Sort of like a highway bypass.

All in all it's a touchy subject but even I see no reason nullsec style blob warfare should be influcted on people who prefer small gang PVP.

It's a start, though I'm cautious about any mechanic that gives powers explicitly to larger corps over smaller corps, or to the pilot with the most LP (who could be an isk farmer for all we know who just wants to play with the jammer for lulz). Either situation could just as easily have the cynojammer become a mechanic that's used by the null sec entities we're trying to protect ourselves from.

This is another one of those situations where the community could very well ask for this, get it, than end up bitching and moaning about how its ruining FW when reddit / goonswarm / PL enlist a corp larger than any established FW corp and end up having even more control over our space than they do right now.

One of the things I hated about the FF proposal, and the reason I'm glad they postponed implementation, is this pay-per-flip "light switch" with the cynojammer. Like I've said before, sovereignty holding and sovereignty control has never been a primary reason players have engaged in Faction Warfare, that game play is already available in null sec. Giving the militias not only full station lockout, but full cyno jam control, continues to blur the line between low sec and null sec life.

Personally I'd prefer a more limited use tool, where it could be deployed an hour or two at a time with a waiting period in between, so it can be used to tactically to protect certain engagements (POS defense or IHUB control fights) without being something that permanently shuts down half of lowsec.

I'm a capital owner as well, I don't relish the idea of having to look everywhere for a place I can / can't cyno in an emergency, much like I don't relish the idea of not being able to dock everywhere either. Some people LOVE cynojammers, and some people LOVE station lockout as well, but overall I think the community's been pretty clear that marching firmly in the direction of null sec gameplay is something we're all trying to prevent.

So thats my take on cynojammers, if I had it all my own way. I'm in Faction Warfare for the frequent fights, not to see my faction have total ownership and domination of everything with its name on it. "TOTAL VICTORY!!!" Is pretty *yawn* in my book. Cynojammers sound like a lot of fun, but I'd like to see them used to create fun scenarios (where you know no one is dropping you), not to become a territorial control feature the way they exist in null.

This may or may not be my recommendation to CCP, depending on what the community comes up with as this is discussed more. At least now we know they're not being implemented in the form proposed at Fan Fest, so there's plenty of room for brainstorming still, if we get cynojammers at all its certainly not happening in the next couple weeks. CCP already has other features that ARE fully realized and just need more coding polish, they'll be working to get those out first before jumping into something as delicate as cynojammers.