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CCP - no really...when is mining going to be a good profession again?

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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#101 - 2012-05-09 01:54:32 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP watches the forums actively. Miners make an impression if they continue show they want change. You may say this is a terrible thread and that it offers no "ideas". Sad thing you miss is this thread shows a segment of Eve is dissatisfied with Eve's direction and they want change! That is in itself an "idea" and should be enough for a reasoned discussion.

As usual you completely miss the point, which is that whining threads are completely unproductive and do not promote reasoned discussion. This thread began as a whining thread; OP comes off as a self-entitled person playing the victim rather than a player concerned about development of a widely-used mechanic that is critical to the game.


Capsuleer Hobb makes a valid point. Unfortunately, Capsuleer Dainze has almost everybody that could actually help her on ignore, instead only wishing to live in her rather expansive echo chamber.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#102 - 2012-05-09 01:55:16 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP watches the forums actively. Miners make an impression if they continue show they want change. You may say this is a terrible thread and that it offers no "ideas". Sad thing you miss is this thread shows a segment of Eve is dissatisfied with Eve's direction and they want change! That is in itself an "idea" and should be enough for a reasoned discussion.

As usual you completely miss the point, which is that whining threads are completely unproductive and do not promote reasoned discussion. This thread began as a whining thread; OP comes off as a self-entitled person playing the victim rather than a player concerned about development of a widely-used mechanic that is critical to the game.


I'd disagree, it seemed like a pretty basic call for an improvement in something long overdue for some attention from CCP. You took it your way and I took it mine. Sure it wasn't a giant post with charts and graphs but it captured a general sense of frustration a lot of Eve shares.

So sorry you'd didn't find the depth in the OP you wanted, but I felt the frustration in that simple post as I've been feeling it myself for a long time!

Issler
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#103 - 2012-05-09 01:58:52 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP watches the forums actively. Miners make an impression if they continue show they want change. You may say this is a terrible thread and that it offers no "ideas". Sad thing you miss is this thread shows a segment of Eve is dissatisfied with Eve's direction and they want change! That is in itself an "idea" and should be enough for a reasoned discussion.

As usual you completely miss the point, which is that whining threads are completely unproductive and do not promote reasoned discussion. This thread began as a whining thread; OP comes off as a self-entitled person playing the victim rather than a player concerned about development of a widely-used mechanic that is critical to the game.


I'd disagree, it seemed like a pretty basic call for an improvement in something long overdue for some attention from CCP. You took it your way and I took it mine. Sure it wasn't a giant post with charts and graphs but it captured a general sense of frustration a lot of Eve shares.

So sorry you'd didn't find the depth in the OP you wanted, but I felt the frustration in that simple post as I've been feeling it myself for a long time!

Issler


OP has been posting just about at a rate of one new thread a day on this issue of mining updates. Unfortunately, what the OP either doesn't want to, or can't, realize is that CCP is already working on updating Mining mechanics for the Industry oriented Winter expansion.

Most of the new threads started by the OP seem to be based around grumbling about Exhumers needing more defense. When really, exhumers are only meant to be flying containers with mining lasers on them.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#104 - 2012-05-09 01:59:13 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP watches the forums actively. Miners make an impression if they continue show they want change. You may say this is a terrible thread and that it offers no "ideas". Sad thing you miss is this thread shows a segment of Eve is dissatisfied with Eve's direction and they want change! That is in itself an "idea" and should be enough for a reasoned discussion.

As usual you completely miss the point, which is that whining threads are completely unproductive and do not promote reasoned discussion. This thread began as a whining thread; OP comes off as a self-entitled person playing the victim rather than a player concerned about development of a widely-used mechanic that is critical to the game.


Capsuleer Hobb makes a valid point. Unfortunately, Capsuleer Dainze has almost everybody that could actually help her on ignore, instead only wishing to live in her rather expansive echo chamber.


I really don't have many people blocked. If you can point to some that genuinely want to talk about mining improvements and not just dredge up the same trollpost nonsense from my election I'll unblock them immediately!

Issler
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#105 - 2012-05-09 02:00:36 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP watches the forums actively. Miners make an impression if they continue show they want change. You may say this is a terrible thread and that it offers no "ideas". Sad thing you miss is this thread shows a segment of Eve is dissatisfied with Eve's direction and they want change! That is in itself an "idea" and should be enough for a reasoned discussion.

As usual you completely miss the point, which is that whining threads are completely unproductive and do not promote reasoned discussion. This thread began as a whining thread; OP comes off as a self-entitled person playing the victim rather than a player concerned about development of a widely-used mechanic that is critical to the game.


Capsuleer Hobb makes a valid point. Unfortunately, Capsuleer Dainze has almost everybody that could actually help her on ignore, instead only wishing to live in her rather expansive echo chamber.


I really don't have many people blocked. If you can point to some that genuinely want to talk about mining improvements and not just dredge up the same trollpost nonsense from my election I'll unblock them immediately!

Issler


I asked you earlier to give a summarized list of the differences between your industry platform and Seleene's industry platform.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#106 - 2012-05-09 02:13:24 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CCP watches the forums actively. Miners make an impression if they continue show they want change. You may say this is a terrible thread and that it offers no "ideas". Sad thing you miss is this thread shows a segment of Eve is dissatisfied with Eve's direction and they want change! That is in itself an "idea" and should be enough for a reasoned discussion.

As usual you completely miss the point, which is that whining threads are completely unproductive and do not promote reasoned discussion. This thread began as a whining thread; OP comes off as a self-entitled person playing the victim rather than a player concerned about development of a widely-used mechanic that is critical to the game.


Capsuleer Hobb makes a valid point. Unfortunately, Capsuleer Dainze has almost everybody that could actually help her on ignore, instead only wishing to live in her rather expansive echo chamber.


I really don't have many people blocked. If you can point to some that genuinely want to talk about mining improvements and not just dredge up the same trollpost nonsense from my election I'll unblock them immediately!

Issler


I asked you earlier to give a summarized list of the differences between your industry platform and Seleene's industry platform.


So please pick a topic, it was just a second ago you claim that I have valuable people on "ignore" that were important to the mining improvements discussion. Now its you want me to re-answer a question you asked (and I answered) during the election?

I did respond during the election, in detail as to my thoughts on how we differed in our focus. So I'm not going to go back over that now. All we can do now is see what CSM 7 can get CCP to do going forward.

And it isn't just about my ideas, its what the players think as well, and I have repeatedly stated my approach to the CSM 7 is to work with the players to get the best ideas collected and presented to CCP. We will have a chance to start to do that very soon. That's all I can promise.

So someone asked what I thought about mining, I provided some earlier quotes and a link to some details about that question. If you want to talk about those, or have some other ideas to discuss about the plight of the miner, I'm here and waiting! But so far just seems like you are here for an argument,,,

Issler
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#107 - 2012-05-09 02:19:09 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:


So please pick a topic, it was just a second ago you claim that I have valuable people on "ignore" that were important to the mining improvements discussion. Now its you want me to re-answer a question you asked (and I answered) during the election?

I did respond during the election, in detail as to my thoughts on how we differed in our focus. So I'm not going to go back over that now. All we can do now is see what CSM 7 can get CCP to do going forward.

And it isn't just about my ideas, its what the players think as well, and I have repeatedly stated my approach to the CSM 7 is to work with the players to get the best ideas collected and presented to CCP. We will have a chance to start to do that very soon. That's all I can promise.

So someone asked what I thought about mining, I provided some earlier quotes and a link to some details about that question. If you want to talk about those, or have some other ideas to discuss about the plight of the miner, I'm here and waiting! But so far just seems like you are here for an argument,,,

Issler


I don't want to read through pages and pages of posts, just to find out how you are useful. I'm sure you could just lay it all out here for us.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#108 - 2012-05-09 02:19:10 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
I asked you earlier to give a summarized list of the differences between your industry platform and Seleene's industry platform.

You're trying too hard, unless this is proving some point (not helpful at all given their attitude of LISTEN TO ME, LISTEN HARDER oh and do what I say) you might as well just, I don't know.

Look for better posters.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#109 - 2012-05-09 02:21:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
I asked you earlier to give a summarized list of the differences between your industry platform and Seleene's industry platform.

You're trying too hard, unless this is proving some point (not helpful at all given their attitude of LISTEN TO ME, LISTEN HARDER oh and do what I say) you might as well just, I don't know.

Look for better posters.


I may as well just boimass myself.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#110 - 2012-05-09 02:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lharanai
@Issler

don't try it, we are on the EVE forums you are talking to 99% of solidified opinions, you are just wasting your time

I do not agree with you on many points but I hold it with Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

Sadly to many things are taken personally on the forums and I just wished we could all take a deep breath instead of banging the old Highsec/carebear versus Nullsec/pvp war drum.


Edit: english is not my native language but I don't care :)

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#111 - 2012-05-09 02:24:48 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Some of you think the game revolves around you and that the others that play this game may just not feel the way you do. Belive it or not some people actually like - "mining". Yes...there are many players that like to mine. You act as if the game revolves around your playstyle. It doesn't. There are other people that play EVE. Is it to much to ask for a little attention to the one profession that hasn't seen any new updates in forever.

Actually, most people don't think the game revolves around them, whether they PvP, mission, do wormholes, exploration, and yes, even mine. The problem is dipshits like you who come into GD and **** up the place with your countless whine threads give miners a bad name.


Oh so miners are suppose to just stay quiet and never voice their concerns like good little ganker fodder? **** that. We're part of the game. Miners are a profession in game and deserve as much attention as the rest of the game.

You want new content? Go and ******* run it, it's out there in null sec gravimetric sites.

Otherwise, your qq's sustain me just fine.


While I agree that Nullsec Grav sites may be somewhat newish, (seems old to me), and have the bonus of being potentially boosted by Sov, I don't see how that was a boost to the mining profession so much as a boost to Null Sov Alliances mineral production.

spawning a bunch of rocks somewhere in the middle of a solar system and reqiring you to scan it down isn't really an addition, so much as an alternative means of finding it. "Okay, so there might be a Grav around here, and better chance because it's a Industry Sov system; lets find it." ping.. ping.. ping. "yep, there it is; now all we have to do is spend endless hours doing the same thing we did when we just warped to belt."

Chances are, the Gravs are found by somebody that often doesn't mine and just drops the bookmarks in a corp folder.

Okay, so not new really; at least not for the miners; they're pretty much doing the same thing as before. On the other hand, there is the Orca, which is relatively new and kinda cool. Changes things up a bit to. Better example I think, but mining is still a sodding poor profession. If it was so good, more people would do it instead of trying it, falling asleep at the keyboard, (SoK), and deciding never to do it again. Not that their fleet mates would let them after that.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#112 - 2012-05-09 02:27:16 UTC
Lharanai wrote:
@Issler

don't try it, we are on the EVE forums you are talking to 99% of solidified opinions, you are just wasting your time

I do not agree with you on many points but I hold it with Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

Sadly to many things are taken personally on the forums and I just wished we could all take a deep breath instead of banging the old Highsec/carebear versus Nullsec/pvp war drum.


Edit: english is not my native language but I don't care :)


I would propose that CSM Issler Dainze is wasting everyones time.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#113 - 2012-05-09 02:29:41 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Chances are, the Gravs are found by somebody that often doesn't mine and just drops the bookmarks in a corp folder.

Not really. They respawn in some spot every 3 days or when you clear them completely (5 mins).

In some places, the belt is stripped out multiple times in a single day. Other than a 5min rest and some probing you can just mine all day everyday in the same one ideal dead end system. Not infinite ore, but heck how much ore do you want? (Other than for titans and stuff, heh).

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2012-05-09 02:33:04 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
There are so many subscribers that there will always be someone happy to take up the role of a casual player and simply mine away for fun. It's not for everyone but there are enough people out there that enjoy it so I don't envisage any change in the near future.

It's barely profitable, you get abuse from griefers and derided generally for doing it but godbless anyone that sticks with it. Never let anyone tell you you are 'doing it wrong', because in all honesty those people are mindless sheep seeking some sort of dumb acceptance from a community of internet spaceship nerds.

Where is Spank??? What have you done to her?????

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#115 - 2012-05-09 02:34:19 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
So I ran on and was elected on (I believe) the idea mining is long overdue for some improvements in the fundamental experience. I can say my initial impression is that there is interest in mining improvements within the ranks of CCP.

Once the initial CSM 7 summit has happened we will have a lot better idea of what and when we can expect from CCP to finally show the miners the long overdue love we need.

Till then, miners stay active in the forums! We need to continue to show support for the idea it is the miner's turn for some positive attention, more than mineral prices, but real new improvements in the basic mining experience!

Issler


If you want mining mechanic changes to be taken seriously, I'd ask your supposed supporters to back off on their torrent of whining posts. Mining mechanics are a thing that needs to be changed. Everyone knows this and I'm sure CCP is working on it. What miners don't need are people coming on the forums and white knighting for them, or getting all buttmad when someone removes them from their ship.


Your whining about the whining is far more annoying.

So just because you're "sure CCP is working on it," you suggest everybody just shut up and wait instead of providing feedback and ideas for improvement? GREAT IDEA!
Shian Yang
#116 - 2012-05-09 02:38:15 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
So just because you're "sure CCP is working on it," you suggest everybody just shut up and wait instead of providing feedback and ideas for improvement? GREAT IDEA!


Greetings capsuleer,

Perhaps keeping ideas in one thread for easy cross reference and putting it in the appropriate section of the forum would help. Of course, if the goal is to reach as many potential voters as possible then little things like being sensible sadly flies out the window.

Regards,

Shian Yang
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#117 - 2012-05-09 02:40:24 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
Shea Valerien wrote:
So just because you're "sure CCP is working on it," you suggest everybody just shut up and wait instead of providing feedback and ideas for improvement? GREAT IDEA!


Greetings capsuleer,

Perhaps keeping ideas in one thread for easy cross reference and putting it in the appropriate section of the forum would help. Of course, if the goal is to reach as many potential voters as possible then little things like being sensible sadly flies out the window.

Regards,

Shian Yang

Dear poster,

Politics have left Jita Park and infected General Discussion. Please neutralize with extreme prejudice, it is catching.


With a flamethrower,

~Ala

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Saia Tae Arragosa
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-05-09 02:49:34 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
Shea Valerien wrote:
So just because you're "sure CCP is working on it," you suggest everybody just shut up and wait instead of providing feedback and ideas for improvement? GREAT IDEA!


Greetings capsuleer,

Perhaps keeping ideas in one thread for easy cross reference and putting it in the appropriate section of the forum would help. Of course, if the goal is to reach as many potential voters as possible then little things like being sensible sadly flies out the window.

Regards,

Shian Yang



Dearest Capsuleer;

Perhaps, instead of showing great disdain and discord for a topic you clearly do not like. Maybe you can, in the future, forgo responding to said topics and instead concentrate on topics where you might actually contribute something of substance to the topic of the discussion.

Regards - much love,

Saia Tae Arragossa - concerned citizen of EVE.
Shian Yang
#119 - 2012-05-09 02:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Shian Yang
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Dearest Capsuleer;

Perhaps, instead of showing great disdain and discord for a topic you clearly do not like. Maybe you can, in the future, forgo responding to said topics and instead concentrate on topics where you might actually contribute something of substance to the topic of the discussion.

Regards - much love,

Saia Tae Arragossa - concerned citizen of EVE.


Greetings capsuleer Arragossa,

I only show disdain for stupidity, self-aggrandised politics and incessant whining. Anything else will get the love and attention it truely deserves.

As I indicated earlier, miners are the bedrock upon which my Rifter is built. You have my appreciation for the mundane activities you engage in.

If you re-read some of it you will see I suggested cooperative operations, taking the opportunity to fly escort for other miners on a rotational basis and other mechanisms whereby you as the capsuleer can increase your enjoyment in the most mundane of activities. Well, most mundane shy of managing a planetary colony. The volume of complaints a colonist generates is only outstripped by the amount of excrement they leave behind.

This will give you pre-emptive engagement while CCP thinks through the proposals that are made in Features and Ideas and engage with the participating and cooperative members of the CSM to engage with the other capsuleers.

Think of it.

You could gather a group of miners, gang fit and venture in the more profitable regions of space. A few to fly escort and you will be running lightning mining raids across hostile territory, thieving the minerals from the very scum that has tried to shut down mining across New Eden.

Is this not a noble task? Is it not engaging and entertaining? And you can do that now.

Regards,

Shian Yang
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#120 - 2012-05-09 03:12:33 UTC
Your post did come off a bit odd but I agree The mining side of eve really needs an overhaul, I love mining however i hate mining with no tank to just get better bonuses to mining Yield and mining time. Though just sitting there with a gang pewing rocks for hrs is not the most fun thing at all.

But i enjoy the result of it, taking it back to station for reprocessing and see how we did and how much we made in a certain amount of time.

There just needs to be more to mining instead of just getting to a Hulk and thats it unless you want to spread and go for Orca and Rorqual. Thats not me though i rather go and do it kind of guy not sit in a ship and wait for ore to come in my hold to either compress or transport it in orca.

There needs to be better mining vessels and better mods instead of Max hulk pilot here thats like uhh what now? Max crystals check, Implants Check Exhumers 5 check.

Ive had some ideas maybe you all might build off it and take it to CCP.

1. Make player mining contracts so corporations can hire industry corporations to mine ore - This will give Miners a purpose to mine.

2. Make a Null sec mining vessel, I know a hulk can put some tank on in null but its not good enough for its rats down there by itself unless you have a stable small shield booster.

3. Instead of mining belts being in a half circle make it actually a FIELD where your surounded by roids and you have navigate through it as if your trying to avoid colliding with them but mine it at the same time. Mining would be more fun if your trying not to run into them have them take damage (Collisions on) Prevents AFK mining ;)

4. as part of 3 i know roids spin make them move? i know roids dont sit still so why should a mining vessel sit still.

5. Have a Siege for a miner? possible idea

6. Have a mining vessel do compressions. I know the Rorqual does that but looking at the hulk and other vessels your seeing the moving parts on the ship so why not?

7. I know Eve is Player base but the NPC's need some life have Hired npc's to haul, mine ect higher payed npc's = better quality of job

8. instead of docking in station and accepting a mission which is dull and really boring this will help with combat and exploration is to have DISTRESS CALLS!!! Helps with exploring unknown space as well if people are stranded by rats, someone stuck in a Ion field and needs saving before the ship explodes, hell ambushes, NPC needing help mine A stranded ship with lost power these would make mining, combat and exploration really indepth and have people take risks into further systems.

9. Probably my first thought on improvements is Get rid of stasis webbifier, scrams and disruptors give ships weak points like Engines = dead in water or moving slow Reactor= Capacitor loss Shield Generators = weaken shields Armor Generators = Weaken armor Guns = Destroy weaponry. Better challenge if rats did that ;)