Warfare & Tactics

This would kill eve's economy, if you just "gave" everyone in fw a "free" ship whenever they wanted it.

On the other hand if it was worked into the plex /lp reward system I think it would just **** most players off. Who wants a free frig as a reward? It would be hard to move or sell. Maybe after x number of kills you gave a free ship out, but that would be abused and newbs aren't going to be getting a lot of kills to be able to make up their losses.

Beyond that, people want to fly what they want to fly. Giving them a ship that they don't want to use isn't going to make them use it.

Was nice to see most people actually have enough decency to post respectful reasons why they disagree. Anyway my suggestion doesn't come out of any concept of Roleplaying but rather my curiosity to see the FACTION be put in Faction Warfare. The LP system while it does something nice, hardly creates a semi homogeneous fleet composition. If it's a BC shield fleet we'll most likely see Drakes and Canes. if it's an armor battleship fleet, we'll see Abbadons or Maels. There's really little incentive to use your faction's ships and actually create doctrines that make the fleet work.

Anyway the idea wouldn't limit anybody from flying whatever they want. The boosts can be minimal and the other aspects are bonuses not punishments. So you can still "fly whatever you want to fly."

Would you mind expressing your concerns in flying a 90 percent + fleet of Gallente ships in different scenarios? Small scale, cruiser/battle cruiser engagements, battleship battles and whatever else?

Nothing makes me rage more in this game is the fact that CCP has no absolutely clue or idea how to fix Gallente boats.

[sarcasm]And their swiftness and eagerness to tackle this issue.[/sarcasm]

First off, gallente frigs and destroyers are fine. The hybrid buff made them competitive, and they are fast enough and the ranges small enough that closing time vs dps is relatively balanced IMO.

BC engagements: First off, close range fight vs other races close range bc's. Take a blaster brutix vs a gang of HAM drakes. Lets first take a look at some simple stats.

blaster brutix armor, 5x hammerheads, 2x magstabs, void M: (faction AM is 1.8/5 with 660 dps)
EHP: 63k
DPS: 717
Speed: 943m/s
Optimal 2.5km
Falloff 2.5
Align: 13.14

blaster brutix shield (mids all tank but one warp scram, lows gank):
EHP: 54k
DPS: 847
Optimal: 3.3
Falloff: 3.3
Align: 11.42s align time

ham drake, point + web:
EHP: 83k
DPS: 650 dps
Speed: 1038 m/s
align: 11.17s
optimal: 18km

I am intentionally crippling the drake a bit by not using heat at all since the active shield mods tend to heat better than the passive armor tanks, and I'm using more tackle on the drake so that lowers the ehp numbers.

First off, lets assume the that brutices and the drakes are in fact always at 0 for the entire time.

A drake will kill a shield brutix in 83s
A shield brutix will kill a drake in 97s

A drake will kill an armor brutix in 96s
An armor brutix will kill a drake in 115s

Even at 0 with no movement, the drake wins.

Now, lets take into account a real fight. As a rule of thumb in a close bc brawl, I like to assume an average of a 10km distance between the targets. This means that the drakes can switch targets right away, but the brutices have to travel for about 15s once you take into account acceleration time once they accelerate then decelerate and settle in for the gank. During those 15s movement time, if you have a fleet of 6 ships the drake will kill an enemy ship in the time it takes the brutices to move to the next target!.

Things only get worse the more people there are, and the brutices don't even win point blank.

Lets move on to ranged fights (and a ranged bc fleet will crush a brawling fleet every time dur to travel time between targets, competent pilots assumed on both sides).

First off, gallente drones are practically useless when you are fighting moving fleets at the general 30-50km range. The drones will take a very long time to reach the enemy target, and if the target is moving drones basically stop and go applying an insignificant fraction of their theoretical dps due to the drone inbult MWD/stop/shoot/MWD cycles.

A rail shield brutix has about 37k ehp with all tank but a warp disruptor, can only shoot and MWD for 1m 48s, does 252 dps @ 68km with spike M and goes 1400m/s with a 8.3s align time.

A nano'd drake with the ONLY tank being LSE + invuln (no damage control even) does 1228 m/s, align 8.1s, cap lasts 4m moving and shooting, 400dps with 50,000 EHP. AND this drake has 2 empty slots for ewar (webs for catching brutices, damps, td's, you name it).

The brutix can't do a thing. It caps out really quickly, does pathetic dps and loses manuveurability options due to tracking and has a terrible tank vs the drake. AND the drake out ranges it.

I don't have the stamina to do this with other ship classes. but it generally scales like this. The extremely minor dps boost that gallente get isn't enough to make up for their deficiency in range and fitting options. And once you get fleets that know how to manuveur, gallente don't even have the cap to keep up. Drones are poor applicators of dps in even small fleet fights (except for sentries in BS fights).

Generally, the only category gallente ships larger than frigs work in are the active tank solo work where the enemy is dumb enough to get scrammed and shut down.

Hope that helps shed some light.

Nice info there chatgris, But I would of been disappointed if the drake was inferior in any area against the Brutix considering you essentially comparing a tier 2 hull with a teir 1.

Perhaps do the same with a drake and myrm.
Or a ferox and Brutix and see if the results are the same.

The reason I didn't choose the myrm is that it's primarily a drone damage dealer - and that is a non starter when it comes to gangs where people are moving, with virtually no damage applied.

And @ Cearain - I disagree with you on the harbinger. I had a very successful time in the harbinger when I flew it (shield nano) and I could take any battlecruiser except for the drake (which is one of the many reasons I fly the drake now).

25 Tengus + 1 tracking dread.
25 Abaddons.
35ish Muninns + some luck.
12-18 bombers.

I don't think it's a terrible idea. And I know others that think it would be a great idea across the whole of the EVE universe. There isn't enough recognition of racial influence in choice of ships, etc. If there were racial bonuses for flying your own race's ships, more people would do so, and find better ways to use that choice of ships rather than just flying the FOTM ship with the FOTM weapons. This would add to the richness and complexity of EVE which can only be a good thing. Plenty will hate that idea because they are used to the way it is now, but that is just a learning curve thing.


I am arguing exactly that. If races were given bonuses for flying their own ships (after all, they should have the most skills in their own ships), that would make people figure out how to best use them. There would obviously be some issues that would need to be ironed out but it would work in an entirely different way from the way it currently does - any comparison with current game mechanics would be somewhat invalid. And yes, I know I'm talking about changing the way the game works. That's my whole point.