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Faction Warfare Idea (Racial ships to actually be used by their respective factions)

Author
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#1 - 2012-05-08 05:30:53 UTC
I've never done any Faction Warfare but the idea has been somewhat appealing to me. I watched a few videos on it on youtube. I like the concept of doing something within EvE that is directly linked to the lore aspect of it. Anyway I sort of cringed when I see Minmatar Milita fitted out with Amarr Battleships or Amarr Milita using Hurricanes en-masse etc etc etc.

So I thought, what if there was some sort of bonus given to the respective militia members for using racial ships? I've come up with a couple ideas.

1. Literal bonuses skill wise. It would work like a fleet booster. These boosts would work solely in Empire space where they are fighting their battles or whatever variation needed. The bonuses could be given on an individual level so people could have their choice, or on a group level where a specific percentage would be required to be present for bonuses to be given.

2. Providing free racial ships. I think this would be very popular at least on a newbie level. I remember being new and treating my Tristan as if it were Proteus or Tengu. I think it would go a long way to get new people involved in PVP quickly. On the higher SP level, perhaps racial ships could be given of better quality depending on the person's killboard. This goes further than just giving ships to people for nothing. It could go beyond that and actually provide ships for whole FW corporations for their effort en masse. Say you just took over a station, you could have an event (sort of like an incursion) where an NPC hauler fleet actually brings in racial ships into the new station. This helps with logistics and providing new ships for people.

Now the big question is WHY? Because doing something just because "well it might be cool" is a stupid reason, i'll tell you why.

1. It diversifies fleet doctrines. And you have to deal with the respective strengths and weaknesses of each racial type's fleet. It would be very interesting to see how a Caldari battleship fleet would face up against a Gallente one. The various factions actually fight according to their factions.

2. Well some of you may already be griping and saying "But faction so and so has all the best ship for X and Y!" This may or may not be true. BUT by these means we will be able to see what is what with hard data and balance if it needed. If there is a ship imbalance it can be more directly addressed.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#2 - 2012-05-08 06:04:12 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


1. It diversifies fleet doctrines. And you have to deal with the respective strengths and weaknesses of each racial type's fleet. It would be very interesting to see how a Caldari battleship fleet would face up against a Gallente one. The various factions actually fight according to their factions.

A Caldari BS blob would destroy a frog BS blob. Smart bombs to kill the drones and Scorpions to jam the hell out of everyone and Ravens and Rohks cleaning up the mess. It wouldn't even be a fight.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#3 - 2012-05-08 06:13:27 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


1. It diversifies fleet doctrines. And you have to deal with the respective strengths and weaknesses of each racial type's fleet. It would be very interesting to see how a Caldari battleship fleet would face up against a Gallente one. The various factions actually fight according to their factions.

A Caldari BS blob would destroy a frog BS blob. Smart bombs to kill the drones and Scorpions to jam the hell out of everyone and Ravens and Rohks cleaning up the mess. It wouldn't even be a fight.



ECCM, Sensor Damps, Webs, Blasters. Any questions?
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-08 06:14:37 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I've never done any Faction Warfare...


This thread needs to be discredited TBH.

Anyway, the 'racial ship gives a bonus' idea is frankly terrible and we are already given an incentive with FW LP reward stores having our Fleet Issue ships. Of course it doesn't stop us from simply selling those rewards and flying whatever we like, but there you go.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#5 - 2012-05-08 06:16:31 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Schalac wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


1. It diversifies fleet doctrines. And you have to deal with the respective strengths and weaknesses of each racial type's fleet. It would be very interesting to see how a Caldari battleship fleet would face up against a Gallente one. The various factions actually fight according to their factions.

A Caldari BS blob would destroy a frog BS blob. Smart bombs to kill the drones and Scorpions to jam the hell out of everyone and Ravens and Rohks cleaning up the mess. It wouldn't even be a fight.



ECCM, Sensor Damps, Webs, Blasters. Any questions?

Racial ECM on a bonused hull from 140km, Blasters, Webs, Torps, Smart Bombs, Racial ECM on a bonused hull from 140km. Any questions?

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#6 - 2012-05-08 06:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph IX Basarab
Halete wrote:
This thread needs to be discredited TBH.

Anyway, the 'racial ship gives a bonus' idea is frankly terrible and we are already given an incentive with FW LP reward stores having our Fleet Issue ships. Of course it doesn't stop us from simply selling those rewards and flying whatever we like, but there you go.


Why is it a terrible idea?


Schalac wrote:
Racial ECM on a bonused hull from 140km, Blasters, Webs, Torps, Smart Bombs, Racial ECM on a bonused hull from 140km. Any questions?


Yeah, how are you going to target out to 140 KM when 3 unbonused sensor damps will put your range to about 30 KM? Also do you really need to spell out "Racial Jammers?" Does anyone actually use anything but that? Sure maybe you tack on one just for the hell of it but any ECM pilot worth anything will be sporting racials.

In any case i'm not arguing that a Gallente BS fleet will win against a Caldari one, simply stating that it isn't a one way match as you incorrectly assume. But hey if it's that easy perhaps Caldari has a new star FC that will take them to victory.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#7 - 2012-05-08 08:32:30 UTC
Would probably be great for minmatar until it reached BS level, then it would suck, I cry when I see a phoon in a large fleet and the tempest is only a bit better.
Othran
Route One
#8 - 2012-05-08 09:42:37 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I've never done any Faction Warfare but I'm not going to let that stop me coming out with complete drivel.


Fixed your post.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-08 09:47:48 UTC
Hey don't be mean to the phoon.

It has a lot of utility.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-05-08 10:25:58 UTC
I agree that it would be cool if factions militia got bonuses related to faction appropriate ships. Giving militia bonuses to their faction's ships is poor choice, since it tries to force militia pilots to fly certain ships and constrains their tactical options, and it disadvantages people whose preferred race doesn't align with their militia. Fluff and aesthetics-wise, there is no reason to force alignment between ships piloted and militia faction. It's a militia composed of volunteers who bring their own ships, not a regular military force. Which is also why I'm against free ships (aside from just generally being against free stuff). We already get reduced LP fleet ships, as others have pointed out.

I would like it if militia pilots got a bonus related to racial ships, but not flying them. How about instead of the utterly laughable bonus manufacturing slot for upgrading a system, militia members in an upgraded militia system get a bonus to manufacture and invention of faction-appropriate ships? Possibly exceeding perfect ME for T1 stuff and producing more/better blueprints for T2 stuff?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#11 - 2012-05-08 10:35:59 UTC
Currently FW pilots get massive LP discounts on their respective faction ship hulls.
ACE81
Sacred Sacrifice
#12 - 2012-05-08 10:57:58 UTC
Caldari would win because of falcon lol :P
Tyson Gallane
Political Warfare Executive
#13 - 2012-05-08 11:14:21 UTC
I think rather than giving a ship bonus out of nowhere, the militias should offer encouragement to pilots by giving a bonus to LP awards for actions completed in a racial hull. Plexes captured / missions completed / enemy ships killed etc.

Say... 20% bonus.



T.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#14 - 2012-05-08 11:23:50 UTC
I tihnk that RP corps exist and that you should just join one if you cringe when allies fly the 'wrong' ships. Your enemies you can freely disparage as mismatched mutts or as clearly envious of the genius of your own shipwrights - whatever. Ultimately, the problem you're trying to solve with this feature is you, quote, sort of cringe, and that is so extremely unimportant to people that they can't begin to find the words that would shoot your idea down to your satisfaction. So, sorry, you're not going to get an exhaustive analysis of why your idea is awful. This isn't a real problem with FW; it doesn't a solution; nobody needs to fuss with the delicate balances involved in unneeded solutions.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#15 - 2012-05-08 13:22:44 UTC
The problem with current ships is that not every faction have ships which can meet all styles of playing. For example: Amarr have with the navy slicer the perfect kiting frigate, no other non-amarr frigate in game is even compareable with the slicer. On the other side minmatar has the fastest frigates in game. Since people are searching for ships which are matching their style of fighting as good as possible, they choose ships of other races if they match better than other ships. Limiting people to a specific set of ships would also limit the style of playing and fighting which would really reduce the fun.

But yes, in general I hate Amarr flying Minmatar ships und vice versa.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#16 - 2012-05-08 13:59:27 UTC
In the past I have advocated that there would be large sensor strength boost in each races plexes.

So if you are in a caldari plex you would get a large boost to gravimetric strength to the point a caldari ship would be virtually unjammable. In a gallente plex you would get a boost to magnetometric etc.

The advantage of this would be twofold. Give some advantage to flying the same races ships. But also because I think ecm ships are a bit overpowered for the small gang warfare plexes often bring about. This won't make ecm boats useless but it would temper their overpowered nature.

The nice thing is this sort of mechanic would be self balancing. If people started to only use the race for that plex then 1) they would start slightly fitting ships for enemies mainly with enemies of that race in mind and 2) you would tend to see less ecm boats coming around.

Fewer ecm boats would would mean people could start flying other races ships. Once that started happening we would then see more ecm boats again. etc. Hopefully you can see how this would be self balancing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cap James Tkirk
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-05-08 15:22:23 UTC
Fw is fine the way it is no need to fix what aint broken RP all day if you want but dont punish us taht wanna have fun
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#18 - 2012-05-08 16:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Or... a special type of insurance for the Faction-specific ships (start with frigates to test it out), paid by RP, allowing a player to redeem a replacement at a FW-office.

So if you're Caldari, you can basically do low-cost FW as long as you stick to Hookbills.

I agree that it's not a good thing that the racial lines between factions have completely faded over the years.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#19 - 2012-05-08 16:15:09 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Schalac wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


1. It diversifies fleet doctrines. And you have to deal with the respective strengths and weaknesses of each racial type's fleet. It would be very interesting to see how a Caldari battleship fleet would face up against a Gallente one. The various factions actually fight according to their factions.

A Caldari BS blob would destroy a frog BS blob. Smart bombs to kill the drones and Scorpions to jam the hell out of everyone and Ravens and Rohks cleaning up the mess. It wouldn't even be a fight.



ECCM, Sensor Damps, Webs, Blasters. Any questions?


Yes. Do you think that the gallente fleet would stand a hope of victory?
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#20 - 2012-05-08 16:17:18 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


In any case i'm not arguing that a Gallente BS fleet will win against a Caldari one, simply stating that it isn't a one way match as you incorrectly assume. But hey if it's that easy perhaps Caldari has a new star FC that will take them to victory.


That won't work because of the large amount of gallente militia that fly caldari ships (and amarr for BS).
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