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Mining v. Suicide Ganking: The Solution
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#21 - 2012-05-08 18:30:14 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Battleship only mining drone class? There are no mods in gave that are only one class of ship?


Sloppy. Balance them with an eye for the fact that Carriers (the "I specialize in having ALL-THE-DRONES boat) should be able to use all the drones.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
stoicfaux
#22 - 2012-05-08 20:28:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Battleship only mining drone class? There are no mods in gave that are only one class of ship?


Sloppy. Balance them with an eye for the fact that Carriers (the "I specialize in having ALL-THE-DRONES boat) should be able to use all the drones.

Balancing might not be needed.

Mining bonuses don't affect drones. With a Rorqual's foreman links, the Hulk's m3 per minute goes up to ~2,100 (plus any medium mining drones.) By comparison a hypothetical Archon with 15 Heavy/Sentry Mining Drones would pull in ~3,000 m3/min. Given the cost difference, tactical considerations, etc., carrier mining may be balanced.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2012-05-08 20:30:36 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Battleship only mining drone class? There are no mods in gave that are only one class of ship?


Sloppy. Balance them with an eye for the fact that Carriers (the "I specialize in having ALL-THE-DRONES boat) should be able to use all the drones.

Balancing might not be needed.

Mining bonuses don't affect drones. With a Rorqual's foreman links, the Hulk's m3 per minute goes up to ~2,100 (plus any medium mining drones.) By comparison a hypothetical Archon with 15 Heavy/Sentry Mining Drones would pull in ~3,000 m3/min. Given the cost difference, tactical considerations, etc., carrier mining may be balanced.

I heard that CCP said no higher mining yield than a hulk. Is that actually true or not?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#24 - 2012-05-08 20:34:48 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard.

LOL No Risk? They lose their ship every time they gank something. You sound like a moron. Suicide ganking is very dangerous and every time you even try it you lose something even if you are successful or not.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-08 20:55:32 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard.

LOL No Risk? They lose their ship every time they gank something. You sound like a moron. Suicide ganking is very dangerous and every time you even try it you lose something even if you are successful or not.

And this, good sirs, is why pvpers are more often than not hilariously bad at economics.
When i build a ship, i'm not "risking" my minerals disappear. It's not an hard concept.
I can understand defending the right to suicide gank as a balancing and sandboxy factor in EVE, but thinking that suicide ganking is an activity that could be classified under "PVP" is hilarious.
Basher Razbaz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-08 22:41:26 UTC
you guys care too much about this game
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#27 - 2012-05-08 22:52:13 UTC
Without trying to start another flame war that these forums are so famous for,
Why are miners demanding intervention on CCP's part. EVE is "meant" to be about personal responsibility. If a Miner is lazy/afk mining he deserves to be killed, its as simple as that.

if your paying attention you dont die.

1. DONT mine in hub system area's/high population.
2. ALWAYS watch local (yes, even in HS) If local spikes dock up.
3.make sure you ask the locals who the gankers are in the area (someone will know), add them to your list an -10 them.
4.Keep aligned an moving around a central point be it an empty can or whatever... this way there's a reasonable chance your facing a celestial/moon etc etc.
5. If someone warps into belt an then leaves, LEAVE!! 50% chance you were just bookmark'ed.

What I find sad is everyone here knows these rules an yet people still want intervention by CCP.
it boggles my mind that every time miners start one of their crusades CCP holds their hand an panders to them. Take Jihad few years ago, direct result, Concord immunity, removal of timer in higher sec systems.

I've been a miner an I've been a killer, an both are equally as important in EVE. Stop demanding CCP play for you, an use your brains an you will never die in highsec min9ng. it's as easy as that.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-05-08 22:54:00 UTC
A battleship cost 150 million now, a freaking drake is 56 million I would say the miners/indy people are winning this fight.

Its your sandbox to crap in BUT you have to smell it too.

On topic: sentry mining drones sounds cool to me
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#29 - 2012-05-08 22:55:18 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard.

LOL No Risk? They lose their ship every time they gank something. You sound like a moron. Suicide ganking is very dangerous and every time you even try it you lose something even if you are successful or not.

And this, good sirs, is why pvpers are more often than not hilariously bad at economics.
When i build a ship, i'm not "risking" my minerals disappear. It's not an hard concept.
I can understand defending the right to suicide gank as a balancing and sandboxy factor in EVE, but thinking that suicide ganking is an activity that could be classified under "PVP" is hilarious.



How is it not pvp mate ?.
In EVE it's meant to be an open Universe yes?, as in life most things come with risk, why should miners be allowed to be completely safe?. There really is no such thing as ganking in EVE anyway its all part of the game, an designed that way as we all know.
The onus is on you the player to avoid getting killed.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#30 - 2012-05-08 23:01:22 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
but thinking that suicide ganking is an activity that could be classified under "PVP" is hilarious.

Oh?
It must be classified as booster production then? Manufacturing? Invention?

No, it's PvP. Fuckin idiot

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#31 - 2012-05-08 23:04:56 UTC
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#32 - 2012-05-08 23:08:24 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.


So you want miners to be totally immune to EVE's central point of gameplay?...

I kill miners an yet I build ships, I am still making money so I dont see an issue.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#33 - 2012-05-08 23:09:17 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.

Nobody I know is bitching about high prices, but that's because we're all rich ass piratebears, and high prices just means more lulz when we blow up your expensive ship.

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#34 - 2012-05-08 23:12:05 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.


So you want miners to be totally immune to EVE's central point of gameplay?...

I kill miners an yet I build ships, I am still making money so I dont see an issue.


You build ships? And do you build everything else in game also?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#35 - 2012-05-08 23:14:45 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.

Nobody I know is bitching about high prices, but that's because we're all rich ass piratebears, and high prices just means more lulz when we blow up your expensive ship.


If you wanted to blow up my expensive ship, you would have to find yourself a way out of your (fail wana-be pvp) hi-sec bubble, and go so far into nul-sec that if you don't remember to pack sunlight, you'll shat yourself.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#36 - 2012-05-08 23:15:27 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.


So you want miners to be totally immune to EVE's central point of gameplay?...

I kill miners an yet I build ships, I am still making money so I dont see an issue.


You build ships? And do you build everything else in game also?


No, but I dont get killed either because I pay attention. What you lot want, is freedom to afk play an never be at risk :)... Take responsibility for yourselves an stop demanding CCP play for you.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#37 - 2012-05-08 23:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Copine Callmeknau
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.

Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.

That is all.

Nobody I know is bitching about high prices, but that's because we're all rich ass piratebears, and high prices just means more lulz when we blow up your expensive ship.


If you wanted to blow up my expensive ship, you would have to find yourself a way out of your (fail wana-be pvp) hi-sec bubble, and go so far into nul-sec that if you don't remember to pack sunlight, you'll shat yourself.

Oh yeh, great wildlands, cool story bro. You must be hardcore to live that 'far' into nullsec Lol

I don't live in hisec btw, I live in placid :p

I see you however have under 100 kills and a 5.0 sec status, maybe you should give up on forum PvP and just go back to ratting you cute widdle carebear Bear

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#38 - 2012-05-08 23:48:59 UTC
The root issue has nothing to do with mining or miners.

There is so much disposable wealth in the game that people can afford to lose dozens of ships.

The risk model is hosed, people who can afford to lose that many ships are not actually taking any risk.

So essentially you have a part of the population participating in zero risk PvP with another part of the population who are so broke they cannot replace the ship they are flying.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#39 - 2012-05-09 00:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
Copine Callmeknau wrote:

Oh yeh, great wildlands, cool story bro. You must be hardcore to live that 'far' into nullsec Lol


You'll have to go just a little bit further than that.

Copine Callmeknau wrote:

I see you however have under 100 kills and a 5.0 sec status, maybe you should give up on forum PvP and just go back to ratting you cute widdle carebear Bear


And yet I have murdered countless asteroids. Its the topic at hand, remember.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#40 - 2012-05-09 00:42:53 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
The root issue has nothing to do with mining or miners.

There is so much disposable wealth in the game that people can afford to lose dozens of ships.

The risk model is hosed, people who can afford to lose that many ships are not actually taking any risk.

So essentially you have a part of the population participating in zero risk PvP with another part of the population who are so broke they cannot replace the ship they are flying.


Hang on, why cant you the miner pay attention? why do you have to be able to afk mine?.
You will NEVER die in EVE as a miner if you use your head an go find a nice quiet system to mine in.

This is 100% fact. Only reason you get killed is you mine in systems with 50 people in it, or your sitting 2 jumps out of Jita....
Stop being lazy an use your head. In 6 years I have died 5 times in Highsec, twice to Jihad 3 years ago when I lost 2 hulks, an rest to bad judgment on my part.