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Mining v. Suicide Ganking: The Solution
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stoicfaux
#1 - 2012-05-07 18:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
After digesting the myriad threads bouncing between "protect lazy miners!" and "easy suicide ganking is a fundamental right!" I have the solution: Mining Drones. Specifically, Heavy Mining Drones and Sentry Mining Drones.

If we assume a similar scale in base firepower between combat drones and mining drones, then that gives us:
* 5x Heavy Mining Drones: ~998 m3 of ore per minute
* 5x Sentry Mining Drones: ~1040 m3 of ore per minute
* plus whatever Miner IIs you can fit
versus
* Hulk with 3x strip miners, 2xMLUs and t2 crystals: 1547 m3 of ore per minute

How is this a solution? Simple, it allows:
* miners to mine in battleships
* gankers to can smartbomb the miners' expensive mining drones (drones have even less tanking options than Hulks.)
thus
* keeping miner ship loss costs down (just the drones are lost)
* reducing the amount of minerals coming into the game, thus making minerals more expensive and mining more profitable
* requiring human miners be at the keyboard due to the smaller cargoholds of battleships filling up more often
* making miner bots super-hard to detect, thus eliminating the need for CCP to investigate mining bots (because, let's face it, investigating claims of botting is even more booooooooooooooooooooring than mining.)
* depressing mineral values since bots are now much harder to detect and thus can run 23x7.
* increases the LOL factor as a bot miner sits there for the rest of the day with no drones after the drones were ganked
* increases the LOL factor as bot miners are bumped out of range of their sentry mining drones.
* increases the LOL factor as Heavy Mining Drones get caught up in the geometry and the mining bot warps away without recovering it

Disclaimer: This thread brought to you by the "Center to Consolidate Thread Topics" society.


edit: typo

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-07 18:57:22 UTC
Came here expecting butthurt, and found a genuinely decent proposal instead.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3 - 2012-05-07 18:58:56 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
* requiring human miners be at the keyboard due to the smaller cargoholds of battleships filling up more often
* making miner bots super-hard to detect, thus eliminating the need for CCP to investigate mining bots (because, let's face it, investigating claims of botting is even more booooooooooooooooooooring than mining.)

Heh, nice one.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-07 19:01:53 UTC
Mining should have a captcha everytime cargo gets full or it jettisons P

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-05-07 19:15:29 UTC
This actually isn't a bad idea.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6 - 2012-05-07 19:20:06 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Mining should have a captcha everytime cargo gets full or it jettisons P

Isn't that good though? Auto-jetcannng?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-05-07 19:28:01 UTC
I am in favour of expanding the range of mining drones.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Eric Konway
Tritanium Wolf Mercenaries
#8 - 2012-05-08 07:14:31 UTC
The proud and noble battleship, reduced to a common mining boat... that's a depressing thought....
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#9 - 2012-05-08 07:16:12 UTC
Eric Konway wrote:
The proud and noble battleship, reduced to a common mining boat... that's a depressing thought....

Which miners will then fit for max yield and simultaneously complain about the excessive ease of ganking it.

Some things will never change...Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Eric Konway
Tritanium Wolf Mercenaries
#10 - 2012-05-08 07:25:06 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Eric Konway wrote:
The proud and noble battleship, reduced to a common mining boat... that's a depressing thought....

Which miners will then fit for max yield and simultaneously complain about the excessive ease of ganking it.

Some things will never change...Roll


Meh, they can take an Iowa's 16" and shove it up their... eh... nevermind.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-05-08 07:29:23 UTC
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-08 07:57:50 UTC
I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard.
Copine Callmeknau
Callmeknau Holdings
#13 - 2012-05-08 08:18:38 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

* gankers to smartbomb the miners' expensive mining drones (drones have even less tanking options than Hulks.)

lol wtf

stoicfaux wrote:

* reducing the amount of minerals coming into the game, thus making minerals more expensive and mining more profitable
* depressing mineral values since bots are now much harder to detect and thus can run 23x7.

lol wtf

stoicfaux wrote:

* requiring human miners be at the keyboard due to the smaller cargoholds of battleships filling up more often
* making miner bots super-hard to detect, thus eliminating the need for CCP to investigate mining bots (because, let's face it, investigating claims of botting is even more booooooooooooooooooooring than mining.)

lol wtf

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2012-05-08 08:19:07 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard.



Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#15 - 2012-05-08 08:56:26 UTC
I'd say that the numbers are off, since the total of the maxed out BS + Drones shouldn't pull more than a Hulk, but I think this is the first anti-ganker idea I've seen here that I like. Also, Sentries should have a lower yield than heavies to compensate for travel time.

There is one other glaring problem. Carriers. 15 of those would let Carriers once again take the lead in mineral m3/hr after only a week and a half of Hulks regaining their rightful place.

Otherwise, well thought out, sir. +1/2 Internets*.

*was gonna be +1, then I thought of Carriers.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#16 - 2012-05-08 09:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
stoicfaux wrote:
After digesting the myriad threads bouncing between "protect lazy miners!" and "easy suicide ganking is a fundamental right!" I have the solution: Mining Drones. Specifically, Heavy Mining Drones and Sentry Mining Drones.

If we assume a similar scale in base firepower between combat drones and mining drones, then that gives us:
* 5x Heavy Mining Drones: ~998 m3 of ore per minute
* 5x Sentry Mining Drones: ~1040 m3 of ore per minute
* plus whatever Miner IIs you can fit
versus
* Hulk with 3x strip miners, 2xMLUs and t2 crystals: 1547 m3 of ore per minute

How is this a solution? Simple, it allows:
* miners to mine in battleships
* gankers to smartbomb the miners' expensive mining drones (drones have even less tanking options than Hulks.)
thus
* keeping miner ship loss costs down (just the drones are lost)
* reducing the amount of minerals coming into the game, thus making minerals more expensive and mining more profitable
* requiring human miners be at the keyboard due to the smaller cargoholds of battleships filling up more often
* making miner bots super-hard to detect, thus eliminating the need for CCP to investigate mining bots (because, let's face it, investigating claims of botting is even more booooooooooooooooooooring than mining.)
* depressing mineral values since bots are now much harder to detect and thus can run 23x7.
* increases the LOL factor as a bot miner sits there for the rest of the day with no drones after the drones were ganked
* increases the LOL factor as bot miners are bumped out of range of their sentry mining drones.
* increases the LOL factor as Heavy Mining Drones get caught up in the geometry and the mining bot warps away without recovering it

Disclaimer: This thread brought to you by the "Center to Consolidate Thread Topics" society.




Yes but it reduces the antisocial personality disorder need to cause harm to others so they may get sexual release. Im betting the gankers will say no. Not for THAT reason ofc

Marlona Sky wrote:
I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard.


Way to prove that point.



Eric Konway wrote:
The proud and noble battleship, reduced to a common mining boat... that's a depressing thought....


Well.... theyre currently mothballed and completely unused IRL lol

It makes sense to start using combat ships in a noncombat role when the need is dire.

RubyPorto wrote:
I'd say that the numbers are off, since the total of the maxed out BS + Drones shouldn't pull more than a Hulk, but I think this is the first anti-ganker idea I've seen here that I like. Also, Sentries should have a lower yield than heavies to compensate for travel time.

There is one other glaring problem. Carriers. 15 of those would let Carriers once again take the lead in mineral m3/hr after only a week and a half of Hulks regaining their rightful place.

Otherwise, well thought out, sir. +1/2 Internets*.

*was gonna be +1, then I thought of Carriers.


Battleship only mining drone class? There are no mods in gave that are only one class of ship?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Radoico
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-05-08 15:25:58 UTC
Well, it seems a good idea... I will go for it it (must improve some skills). Let's see what happen.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-05-08 15:30:53 UTC
Get rid of everything related to the mining profession, seed minerals once again with trit starting at 1000 isk (oh yeah, its going to be expensive losses for everyone!)

Problem solved, no source for ganking means miners cannot be ganked (as they do not exist). Simple, well though logic to fix the problem.
Five Thirty
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-08 15:36:40 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Which miners will then fit for max yield and simultaneously complain about the excessive ease of ganking it.

Some things will never change...Roll


Even fit for max yield, it won't be terribly cost effective to gank it. Figuring you stuff the lows with cargohold expanders, you can still fit a large tank in the midslots, especially for natural shield tanking battleships. Even untanked, you're looking at at least 1.5 tornados to gank a battleship that only costs a bit more than the ganking ships.

At least it will force gankers to spend some money instead of getting off in cheap destroyers.
Eric Konway
Tritanium Wolf Mercenaries
#20 - 2012-05-08 17:58:36 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:




[quote=Eric Konway]The proud and noble battleship, reduced to a common mining boat... that's a depressing thought....


Well.... theyre currently mothballed and completely unused IRL lol

It makes sense to start using combat ships in a noncombat role when the need is dire. [quote=Antisocial Malkavian]


True. But once we figure out EM Propulsion weapons and refit them with Nuclear reactors, they'll be kings of the water again, Baby!
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