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A Suicide Gankers guide to keeping your Hulk off a killmail.

Author
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#41 - 2012-05-08 02:11:00 UTC
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood wrote:
It's not fair that gankers can just kill mining ships at minimal loss to themselves. To prove a point, you will never ******* see a ganker use a battleship anymore since there would be an amazing sense of loss without insurance. See, everytime someone even ******* mentions it they bitchwhine how the ganker gets to be the Godthumb and deliver a bitchslap of justice at minimal risk to themselves. See, that is called...get this you will ******* laugh out loud...risk adversion. You will never see a faction battleship take out a hulk with CONCORD retalliation, because like the guy they are shooting in the hulk but the ganker won't admit it...THEY ARE BOTH ******* HUMAN! Both the idiot in the hulk and the ganker in the destroyer, are spending time in highsec where hulk is getting minimal isk per hour (cause no where makes more and is total safe) while the ganker is spending mimimal risk of losing something. But they both pay the exact same amount to CCP, therefore....both should be ******* losers. Buff the hulk to survive DPS of tier 3 battleships and hulks have zero insurance payout...both parties are loosing several hundred million...which is equally fair. Or the hulk could get a make over, but we all know what the loud whiney Thai wh*re noise level parties do not want to happen. ( CCP should of just killed the mining profession all together.)

Everytime some idiot says that highsec is to safe, please show us exactly where the **** at all safe option is. What exactly prevents you from firing on a hulk, this option that makes them totally safe. What is it? Is it that....no wait this is not WoW where there is PVP only areas. See, when you fire on a hulk....without a wardec...in highsec....YOU FACE ******* REPERCUSIONS OF YOUR ACTIONS...BUT WHINEY LITTLE NEED THEIR ASS WIPED BY MOMMY RISK ADVERSE PILOTS DON'T LIKE LOSING TO CONCORD....No different then every other guy who you ******* blew away in lowsec and null....NO ******* HUMAN LIKES LOSING....but highsec is the only option that makes the least amount of isk (Where you you make more, with less risk then highsec? You can't nerf the bare minimum). Therefore, when one guy makes less isk YOU the other guy should face far more repercusions for your actions to blow them away. When they move elsewere for more isk with more risk...then its balanced.

Nothing prevents you from actually blowing the hulk away, but you don't like that POW! WHAM! KA-BOOM! sensation like when your father backhanded you for doing stupid as a kid...but as an adult you feel the need to do what ever you want with minimal repercussions. Sorry, but if you avoid risk just as much as the hulk pilot spending time in highsec...guess what you are no better if you pull the ******* trigger or not you are avoiding repercussions to your actions. That is something CCP needs to figure out, because they ****** up 9 years ago when they relized "OH, we didn't know that when you let someone do what ever you want...who is it that is actually right when both parties are our customers." Who faces the most risk? How do you make the most isk and what is acceptable minimum isk? How do you balance it...since its so grindly to replace something like a hulk that just ******* explodes because it only has two ******* fitting options that are barely adequate while nearly all other T2 ships have at least three: Max gank, Max Tank, Balanced Gank/Tank that doesn't ******* pop so easily unless OVERHWHELMING alpha hits it. The bare mimimum CCP needs to do is make it just as ******* grindy to replace sec status as it is to replace a hulk plus locking out even a ******* pod from highsec unless a bare minimum of -2.0 is reach and forget their ******* stupid idea to allow criminal tags to raise sec status. Sorry, but if you have to ******* grind to replace a hulk then the other guy has to ******* grind sec status...with one tick every 15 minutes and not every session change...then both parties are spending equal time grinding.

Oh, and for every ******* idiot that spouts "Fit a tank" to a hulk let me ask you...why didn't your subcap shitfleet adapt and not fly a subcap shitfleet anymore when your ass got splattered by titan guns? Bitchwhine got CCP to step in and fix this obvious "problem" when like a hulk pilot "fits a tank" when perhaps the ******* problem between the chair and the keyboard should of not bitched but insteaded of adapted their tank from a subcap fleet to a capital ship fleet of their own. Logic my friends, you are welcome for me pointing out that the last round of Titan nerfs where unecessary because you could not adapt just as much as you tell a hulk pilot to adapt a tank. To bad you never want to take a loss and certainly don't want CCP to fix such a stupid ship such as the hulk. You know what, knock every destroy down to 5 guns there by allowing it to have more then a frig and now it can get a hitpoint boost...then we can call it balanced without touching the hulk.

******* hypocrites, always beliving you get to apply max risk and punishment while avoiding it yourself. Wish CCP would HTFU like their little theme song and just cause SP loss to occur everytime your ship was destroyed for any reason (not T3 anymore.) Oh yes, even you will feel a soul tearing, nut crushing sense of loss in this version of EVE. ****, even permanent character death at ship explosion would balance out

umad? Lol

Also cool story, bro

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-05-08 02:13:46 UTC
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood wrote:
It's not fair that gankers can just kill mining ships at minimal loss to themselves.
Of course not. It's not meant to be fair. Welcome to EVE.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-05-08 02:37:00 UTC
Neither life, nor Eve, is fair.

It was never advertised as being fair, and it never has been fair. So anyone that gets caught up in the why this and why that, why don't you learn from all the mistakes ?

Don't wanna get ganked in your Hulk and don't wanna tank it.. Fine, mine in a Rokh.
Zora'e
#44 - 2012-05-08 02:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Zora'e
Darth Gustav wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Thank you Karn for the wonderful read.


Too bad the majority don't read the forums. They could benefit a little from this.


Maybe if CCP had a decent mining tutorial that involved teaching new miners defense tactics we all wouldn't be sitting here having this convo.

Wow. Blame CCP for miners being bad at their game. Next you'll blame your keyboards.


Actually, I DO blame my keyboard. The bloody thing hasn't worked right since the day I bought it. Thankfully... I rarely bother to un-dock anymore so it's not quite as much trouble as it could be.

Tippia wrote:
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood wrote:
It's not fair that gankers can just kill mining ships at minimal loss to themselves.
Of course not. It's not meant to be fair. Welcome to EVE.


Quoted for truth.

I won't say you are stupid, but you're not exactly on the Zombie menu either.

Renturu
In Glorium et Decorum
#45 - 2012-05-08 04:51:56 UTC
Karn (and Tippia), I agree wholeheartedly! We had a fellow miner lose his Hulk b/c he had no tank at all and learned his lesson right away. We showed him a proper fit and gave him a Hulk (we stock them, hehe) and fitted it proper. But, for now, we are smart as HAG is a dangerous time to fly a mining barge, period. We fit and fleet Battleship Miners and are still able to carry on.

On top of that our defensive strategy is more refined (actually better than when in a Hulk b/c we carry better weapons and tank).

All miners wishing to rage and fill the buckets with tears... LISTEN TO THESE GUYS!!! Either change your ways, or die.

Last thing Karn, I also agree, heavy indy should be a specialized field and only those smart enough to fit proper should do it. I've only lost ships because I didn't fit smartly... It''s not all about DPS and mining yields folks.

By the orders of PlunderBunny: ☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#46 - 2012-05-08 06:08:02 UTC
Mine in your max-mining-yield untanked hulk next to an Orca with a supertanked hulk in its hangar.
Switch ships when you see potential gankboats on d-scan. Twisted

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.

Francisco Bizzaro
#47 - 2012-05-08 07:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Thank you Karn for the wonderful read.


Too bad the majority don't read the forums. They could benefit a little from this.


Maybe if CCP had a decent mining tutorial that involved teaching new miners defense tactics we all wouldn't be sitting here having this convo.

Most useful would be if someone updates the existing guides for mining. The standard reference seems to be a guide by a character named Halada, which has been copied almost verbatim into evelopedia, and also forms the basis of the chapter in the ISK Guide.

It's pretty good for the mining calculations, and there are detailed results for maximum yield. There is a long paragraph dedicated to "The Perfect Miner". Apparently that is defined by waiting for mining skills to train and putting the right implants in your head. The guide is quite long, which might fool people into thinking it is comprehensive and result in some misconceptions.

But there are only two sentences that mention suicide gankers. The tanking advice is for protection from belt rats. The directional scanner doesn't get a mention, nor does any aspect of navigating a hulk (alignment, align time, bookmarks). Or what types of tactics suicide gankers are likely to use against you.

Probably most importantly, it could use a change of philosophy. A "Perfect Miner" is not one who gets sent home in a pod every couple of weeks, so the obsession with max yield needs to be tempered with some cautious reality.

Suicide ganking took a big leap forward once the techniques were documented (by players) in clearly written guides. Maybe that's a ganker tactic miners could learn from.
SuperKawaiiDesuYo
#48 - 2012-05-08 14:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: SuperKawaiiDesuYo
power of 2 sale + you shouldn't be mining without an orca anyway
hulk + orca team = pretty good

stay in 0.7+ for halfway decent concord response time.


hulk:
use damage control II, adaptive invuln field II(2x or..), 30% passive shield hardener(usually thermal, look up "Void" ammo lol) use ECM drones on hulk (some gankers use sensor boosters, bastards), and finally train up at least lv4 shield skills and thermodynamics (lv1 at least) get medium core defense extenders as well.

you should be able to run damage control / adaptive(s) / strips cap stable easily


orca:

laser time buff, range buff (you can get away without using) and large shield transport II (384 shield a cycle) use standard combat drones vs rats

target your fellow hulks, really easy with 1 hulk + 1 orca. make sure you target before the gank, the scan resolution on an orca is low (takes forever)

when **** goes down, overheat your tank on hulk. have the orca repair your hulk

edit: lol@ideal mining times, just run the damage control II and shield extending rigs... the extra cargo space/5% yield isn't worth losing your 300m+ ship over


if you ask me the mining tutorial should've informed miners that you aren't safe from other players - whoever suggested this is a genius. it's similar to the starcraft 1 campaign, it puts you vs an entire map of bad guys, forcing the inexperienced player to mostly turtle up. when the time comes to play vs players online, turtling up is pretty bad, but all they learned from their tutorial in the game is to be defensive behind a wall of static defense.
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#49 - 2012-05-08 15:14:14 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Always try to fit at least two Tech II Adaptive Nano Membranes and some shield extenders. But the main item to fit is a damage control as it will literally double your ships hit points.


Remember people to always fit at least three modules into your two low slots! It's the only way to be sure.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-05-08 19:10:08 UTC
Melina Lin wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
Always try to fit at least two Tech II Adaptive Nano Membranes and some shield extenders. But the main item to fit is a damage control as it will literally double your ships hit points.


Remember people to always fit at least three modules into your two low slots! It's the only way to be sure.



I thought you were trolling for a second until i realised that i got EANMs confused with Invuln fields. Ill change that now and thats for pointing that out
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
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