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Unified Winferno is now live - and it sucks as much it did on test server

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Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#121 - 2012-05-20 21:26:05 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Holy christ that video from Tippia is infuriating, why does he keep closing the tree
Because it's a waste of space and doesn't help me with any of the things I need to do. It only helps me in opening new windows which I shouldn't have to do to begin with. Yes, I can use the tree view to switch inventories and thus have it replace the current tabbed setup I use, but it's a very bloated and cumbersome way of doing that — I have to scroll around to get the inventory I want rather than have immediate access to it.

The tree view is handy in the personal and corp hangar, and would be useful in the corp and personal asset view (which it doesn't support) and S&I interface (which it doesn't support). It serves next to no purpose for small and temporary inventories such as cargo holds and cans.

Quote:
that simply clicking on a particular tree marker erases the need to clutter your screen with windows, you don't NEED to have that **** open all over the place like that, its all neatly bundled into one package.
The tree view doesn't let me see multiple locations at the same time. It only lets me click between them, which is the exact opposite of what I want. I have better things to do with my mouse and keyboard than fiddle with the inventory screen — it should just sit there and show me what I want it to show me. So no, I still NEED to have all those windows open, and they're not all over the place — they're neatly bundled in one corner… which is another thing the new UI doesn't let me do. In fact, it's the new UI that makes the windows appear all over the place rather than neatly bundled.

What you're saying is that it would be a good thing if they combined the overview and the HUD into two different tabs in the same window: it reduces clutter and if you want to see what's around you in space, you can always click to show it; if you want to see how your ship is doing, you can click to show that instead. Because no-one ever wants (or needs) to see both at once, right?

Quote:
The filters allow you to go one farther and only see the parts you need most at any one time like, its baffling watching him do that over and over when its just like, leave the tree open and stop screwing around.
No, the filters don't solve any of the problems because it's still only applied to one inventory at a time. If I want to have two or more inventories open to monitor both at the same time I still need multiple windows to do so.


While I understand what you are trying to do and say, I think his point was that often you would insist on dragging from an open window to an open window instead of simply dragging to the tree.

Example: When you dock and are sorting your loot out of your cargo hold. All you need have open is your cargo hold. Filter things however you like and simply drag the items to the appropriate listings in the tree. All of your sorting is done from one window, with far less mouse movement back and forth across your screen than dragging from one window to various other windows. The tree is right next to the items you are working with.

All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting.

By insisting on closing it, you remove half of the functionality you would otherwise have. Functionality that would, to a large degree remove the need for the other open windows.


Because those tiny mouse targets that keep changing the display of the inventory window when you hover over them for half a second are so easy to use.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#122 - 2012-05-20 21:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Huh. Missed out on this thread for a while…
Ranger 1 wrote:
While I understand what you are trying to do and say, I think his point was that often you would insist on dragging from an open window to an open window instead of simply dragging to the tree.
The problem is that doing so provides no useful information about where you're dragging stuff to. Yes, if I want to just dump a ton of crap into some particular location without any regard for what's already there, I can use the tree — if I want to be precise in what ends up where, I can't…

…and I have to fiddle with it to show the right location, as opposed to it being there instantly and reliably.
…and I have to go and fiddle with it some more if I want to clean up after the transfer (or, as mentioned above, if I am a bit hesitant in my transfer).
…and the tree view is a smaller drop target.

The key point here is consistency: one setup and one methodology solves all use cases with equal (high) efficiency, rather than having different setups and methods for different cases with varying (on a sliding scale of decreasing) efficiency.

As for the filters, most of that can already be done in a single mouse-click already by having a proper list view set up.

Quote:
All that extra mouse movement needs to be done because you don't leave the tree open so that you can sort, drag, and drop on the hangers (etc.) listed there. In other words the tree isn't just there to allow you to easily find and open other hangers/containers... it's there to provide one spot (immediately adjacent to where your mouse will be) to drag your items to when sorting.
But that's already a non-issue if multiple windows work properly. The reason I insist on closing it (for most windows) is that I have — or should have — the same functionality without the tree view and without taking up extra space that I can use to see more items. I do not agree that the tree view removes the need for multiple windows in the slightest because all it offers is drop targets; it doesn't offer any information about those targets, which is why I have multiple windows to begin with.

If all I needed was drop targets (in the current UI), I could just have a rolled-up tabs and throw items into the locations that way, or just pile all my inventories into a single stack and have that one unified window — the solution the new UI offers in that respect already exists. The reason I don't do that is because I need more than that. Like I say (both in the video and in my blog post): the tree view replaces tabbed stacks. It does not in any way replace multiple windows. Some of my windows I prefer to have set up as single tabs; for others I want to have multiple tabs. That's where the tree view (and being able to hide it) will simplify things — not in the actual multi-window setup.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2012-05-21 18:04:50 UTC
Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again.

Folder menu still has wrong background style as for example using desert theme colours makes the it pretty unreadable. Background should be same colour than in other menus like that (for example in market).

Opening ships cargo bay by double clicking hangar background opens cargo in inventory window. Double clicking hangar background while holding shift opens it to new window. However this only happens if inventory window is already open (should not need to be) and double clicking hangar background again (while still holding shift) opens another copy of cargo window to yet another new window. It should "activate", "bring to front" or "close if already active and in front" the previous copy instead.

Didn't even bother to test the space, looting, system change functionality any more because - well - I'm just fed up...

If someone wants to give it more in depth final verdict - be my guest.

If this goes live tomorrow, I'm heading to play diablo 3. CCP may email me with some nice reactivation offer when (and if) this has been fixed. Rather do something fun than get myself angry with something what I don't want to use in it's current form.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#124 - 2012-05-21 18:19:44 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again. [etc]
Did you happen to notice if they had fixed the corp delivery bug? It says it has been fixed in my bug report list, but it would just be too hilarious if that one slipped through… Lol
Weed Probe
Dynaco Manufacturing
#125 - 2012-05-21 18:19:46 UTC
Unified Faggotry

Everyone trusts Weed.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2012-05-21 18:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Tippia wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again. [etc]
Did you happen to notice if they had fixed the corp delivery bug? It says it has been fixed in my bug report list, but it would just be too hilarious if that one slipped through… Lol

Yea now they seriously seem to think that people go always check to that folder under the corp tree and check if they have new deliveries rather than having open window for that purpose... Specially the traders are going to love the new improvement as long the windows won't stick open when you change station session.

as in from patch notes: "Market deliveries now appear under the Corporate hangar section in the Index tree of the inventory."

Improvements my **s.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-05-22 07:02:46 UTC
Morning of inferno launch day. Client patch #1 applied to SiSi. Unified winventory still broken like hell.

Good luck. You'll need it.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2012-05-22 07:10:54 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Now - at the evening - day before winferno launch - all extra windows still refuse to reopen when you re-enter station. They seem to remember their size and position, but still need to manually open all again. [etc]
Did you happen to notice if they had fixed the corp delivery bug? It says it has been fixed in my bug report list, but it would just be too hilarious if that one slipped through… Lol

Yea now they seriously seem to think that people go always check to that folder under the corp tree and check if they have new deliveries rather than having open window for that purpose... Specially the traders are going to love the new improvement as long the windows won't stick open when you change station session.

as in from patch notes: "Market deliveries now appear under the Corporate hangar section in the Index tree of the inventory."

Improvements my **s.


Industrialists are going to hate this the most.

When you warp to a POS, guns show up in the tree as containers.

Warping Station <> POS for things like grabbing minerals is frustrating as hell. Evrey time you dock, you need to re-find your mineral supply, undock, warp to your POS with 50billion containers and find the right one.

Not to mention... Previously I would open cargo > right click on pos > open fuel bay grab fuel from cargo and drop into fuel bay.

This no longer works because it 'closes' the ship cargo and replaces the inventory window with the pos's fuel bay.



Tomorrow is going to be glorious and I look forward to the threadnaughts this new inventory system will create. I got popcorn!


Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2012-05-22 07:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Yep... the stupidity in decision to release this in it's current state is overwhelming and shows how reckless and bullheaded certain people at CCP are. Entire expansion ruined by crap like this. Thanks in advance. I love you guys too.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-05-22 08:13:52 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:

If this goes live tomorrow, I'm heading to play diablo 3. CCP may email me with some nice reactivation offer when (and if) this has been fixed. Rather do something fun than get myself angry with something what I don't want to use in it's current form.

Can I have your stuff?

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#131 - 2012-05-22 08:16:55 UTC
I hope they have got a different build ready and when I log on my separate Ships and Hanger buttons are still there Sad

New UI = pants

Tal

BrutalButFair
Fleet of the Damned
#132 - 2012-05-22 08:24:35 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey this is great Big smile I lol'd out loud, oh and I'm reading this thread now, sorry about late reply, we have been monitoring the official feedback thread of the blog over the weekend and are collecting valuable input for iteration tasks as well as setting up User testing sessions to be able to actually observe in action the things you are describing so that the changes and fixes we do will be the right ones.


You laughed out load out load?
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2012-05-22 09:12:48 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Not to mention... Previously I would open cargo > right click on pos > open fuel bay grab fuel from cargo and drop into fuel bay.

This no longer works because it 'closes' the ship cargo and replaces the inventory window with the pos's fuel bay.



you're doing it wrong. shift click

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-05-22 09:23:38 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.


Is there perhaps a chance EVE players could get involved in this? I roughly know how the procedure works, I (and I am sure others) wouldn't mind following your instructions and writing about our experiences. Or even making a video.

After all we don't want an UI that works for a bunch of tester monkeys. We want an UI that works for regular EVE players, from miners to mission runners to haulers to starbase managers to alliance CEOs.

I feel that the connection between CCP and the playerbase that was estabilished in the fall and culminated in Crucible is breaking apart again. EVE is unique in the fact that I as a player feel that I am directly affecting the course of its development, through the CSM, crowdsourcing, feedback threads, and similar. But now once again features are being designed behind a closed door with nothing but a promise that "it will be awesome" and "iterated on in the future" again.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2012-05-22 13:34:35 UTC
I just want to confirm that the junk is now on tranq and is as broken as expected.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Chaosmancer
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2012-05-22 13:48:48 UTC
What the hell CCP...
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#137 - 2012-05-22 13:49:35 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I'd just like to confirm that "winferno" is indeed going to be awesome.


Hey, you're not in a window and on fire :) Huzzah!

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Di Mulle
#138 - 2012-05-22 13:58:21 UTC
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:

If this goes live tomorrow, I'm heading to play diablo 3. CCP may email me with some nice reactivation offer when (and if) this has been fixed. Rather do something fun than get myself angry with something what I don't want to use in it's current form.

Can I have your stuff?


I love this man. He is so incredibly creative, you wouldn't even believe.

<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Disdaine
#139 - 2012-05-22 14:02:41 UTC
Not liking it at all.

But then I didn't like the way the new neocom removed functionality eitherl.

Or the way CQ removed hangar functionality until they brought it back.

Must just be me and my silly desires to do things as quickly and efficiently as possible.
mercuryyy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2012-05-22 14:03:56 UTC
Bet the grand plan behind all this is to make people stop shooting statues in Jita again just by making it impossible for most of them to figure out how to load ammo into their ships/guns :D