These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Eve turning into UO?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-05-07 17:24:15 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).




What is percent of carebears in EVE ?

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-05-07 17:27:49 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).




What is percent of carebears in EVE ?



Ah, never mind - pointless thing ...

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol
#63 - 2012-05-07 17:29:21 UTC
Kale Kold wrote:
All games that come pre-nerfed to be carebear friendly always fail because there is simply no challenge


Would you care to explain World of Warcraft then?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#64 - 2012-05-07 17:30:11 UTC
Twulf wrote:
Like it or not PVP is not popular no matter how you force it on people. EVE is NOT just about PVP, sure it is a huge part but EVE (If you are to believe the EVEVet's) is a Sandbox game and that means that PVP is optional if the player wants it to be.

Remember Sandbox means that each player gets to choose how they play the game. That is all it means.
Not quite.

EVE is a multiplayer sandbox. There is a very important distinction to make between a single player sandbox (which is what most people are used to) and a multiplayer sandbox of this kind. Multiplayer sandbox doesn't mean you can do what you want — it means everyone can do what they want, including things you do not want them to do to you.

PvP isn't optional because it is engrained in everything the game offers; combat isn't optional, because you wanting it or not is not a factor in it happening — it all depends on what the other player(s) want. This means that if you do not choose to take control yourself, the default will happen and that default is “you lose”. Since PvP is engrained in everything in the game, this in turn means that you will lose in pretty much every way imaginable, including having your ship blown up.

Quote:
The main reason don't PVP is that PVP players are a minor when it comes to gamers in MMO's.
…and the main reason people people rail against carebears is that they have so many other games to choose from, so there is absolutely no reason for them to remove EVE from the list of games that cater to that minority.
Frater Sen
Delta vane Corp.
#65 - 2012-05-07 17:37:43 UTC
Kale Kold wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).

This!!!

If any game designer listens to carebears the mmo dies!

*snip*

DAoC
Rogue characters could be invisible on the battlefields, but had to uncloak to attack. Carebears fed up of being killed, even though they new the frontiers were not safe started whining. So they nerfed stealth so you couldn't be invisible and over night masses of characters lost their role and reason for being there. Subs started declining because you couldn't now get any intel and the only option was to zerg, leading to massive stand offs for hours at a time. There was no fear or challenge to the frontiers only blobs. The game become boring and the whole reason of the game PvP (realm combat) was ruined.

It just goes on and on. For any online game to succeed there has to be fear, challenge and loss and the satisfaction you get when you beat those and triumph!!!


First, Daoc was not PvP... it was RvR. The difference? Playerbase. The RvR servers were full of players, the open pvp servers in daoc were empty. The so called pvp players left the pvp servers as fast as possible... 300 players primetime weekends - the pvp elite of Europe / States were mostly forum warriors and gankers/griefer who couldnt stand a fight. PvP in Daoc died, because the pvp players werent hard enough to play that kind of game. There is a difference between ganking/griefing and pvp. And even some of the RvR servers died because RvR consisted mostly out of gank troups with radar (to avoid real fights / farming anything lower in group size) and stealther. You couldnt walk 20 meters to the first gate without a dozen stealthers behind your back on a good day.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#66 - 2012-05-07 17:40:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
and the main reason people people rail against carebears is that they have so many other games to choose from, so there is absolutely no reason for them to remove EVE from the list of games that cater to that minority.


Without so-called 'carebears' in EVE what are griefers and pirates going to do for fun?

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-05-07 17:41:03 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
Bring back the quarterly reports please. What you give us now (which I have seen little to nothing) is trash.




Edit: On topic, the problem that is happening in Eve right now is that more and more high sec people are becoming vocal. With the recent asshattery of DoucheSwarm in conjunction with hulkageddon a lot of people have come to the forums to voice concerns. Previous to that you had the months and months of boomeranging exploits in a Tornado that caused a lot of havoc on so called carebears.

I know it has been said before, but more people play/live in high sec than low/null. You used to be able to see that through the quarterly reports and what not. Another problem that comes from this is that the high sec players are mostly casual players who pop on for a few hours to grind some missions or mine, and never come to the forums. It is relaxing to some people to do that after a days work. What has been pissing them off is that while the majority of people play in high, everything in the game is geared and being pushed towards low/null. The CSM has a clear agenda that it has been pushing for years, and it does not include a very pretty picture for high sec.

There are also some rumors that certain people are giving certain other people help in game and listening to them over anything else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1sdTzj9iac
That person talking and giving a presentation for the now called goonswarm is our lead game designer.

Every last ship counts, it would be nice to know for sure CCP Soundwave isn't on a path to make eve univerally like null sec. But I also consider the fact he isn't going to jeopardize his job for a community he was apart of. Not to mention he has quality control people watching him. And other designers who would step in before this.

Something clever
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-05-07 17:41:58 UTC
The carebear descends upon a beloved MMO and begins to play it knowing all too well that it contains pvp features that the carebear will not enjoy.

The carebear then complains and tries to adapt the environment to itself, much like how a virus reprograms a cell to make more viruses.

Once the game has been mutated into a carebear environment it dies, releasing more carebears to infest other games.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Iamien
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-05-07 17:44:37 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Tippia wrote:
and the main reason people people rail against carebears is that they have so many other games to choose from, so there is absolutely no reason for them to remove EVE from the list of games that cater to that minority.


Without so-called 'carebears' in EVE what are griefers and pirates going to do for fun?


We don't need to think about that possibility. Thanks to CCP's and other player's marketing there is a constant supply of new players.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2012-05-07 17:48:35 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Without so-called 'carebears' in EVE what are griefers and pirates going to do for fun?
Kill people.
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-05-07 17:50:02 UTC
CCP out of business - the end of EVE - all accounts gone - Carebears win EVE Online.

Call it the ultimate suicide gank.

Please try to top that.

You have to be creative these days...
Ayame Tao
#72 - 2012-05-07 17:55:22 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:


*Kal Vas Flam*


*Mon Ful Ir*

now THATS a spell...
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-05-07 18:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Tippia wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
You keep saying this on thread after thread, It's a pretty sure bet that if 70-85% of the pilots are in high sec, then the bulk of the player base is there.


…except that it's not.

If 70% of the characters are in highsec, it means that 30% are not.




So if we go by your mathematical genius that you just showed us.... 30% > 70%?



My mind has been blown.



.... If 70% of active characters are in high sec that means that 70% of the population is in high sec. That also means that more people inhabit high sec than low/null.

The problem we have is that the high sec dwellers are casual and not very vocal. On the other hand we have the elitist pvp null sec dwellers who think their **** doesn't stink and that anything that doesn't go along with their opinion is completely wrong. They then go and post dribble all over the forums and cry like small children when things don't go their way, i.e. GoonSwarm and Burn Jita. Yes, you all cried like small children who's daddy just paid them a midnight visit to their bedroom because your leader was a complete and utter moron and got himself banned and removed from the CSM.


You want to know what the quickest way to kill Eve would be? Removing high sec.

At the pace it is going now the CSM is slowly killing off high sec with the agenda they have been/are currrently pushing at CCP.







edit: I may speak poorly about Null/Low, but I am currently living in it as it is safer than being in high.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#74 - 2012-05-07 18:02:11 UTC
Iamien wrote:
We don't need to think about that possibility. Thanks to CCP's and other player's marketing there is a constant supply of new players.


So starting to play EVE as a 'carebear' is like joining a FPS server where you're alone against many people on the other team. That's some brilliant game design.

Tippia wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Without so-called 'carebears' in EVE what are griefers and pirates going to do for fun?
Kill people.


But they don't want to kill anyone else, they're obsessed with 'carebears'.

Such limited thinking you all have. In order for a game to be dynamic and have a healthy ecosystem, there needs to be many well established groups. Not just yours.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-05-07 19:25:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
You keep saying this on thread after thread, It's a pretty sure bet that if 70-85% of the pilots are in high sec, then the bulk of the player base is there.
…except that it's not.

If 70% of the characters are in highsec, it means that 30% are not. Considering that every account has ~2½ characters on it on average, and considering the widespread use of “utility alts”, and considering the convenience factor of having an alt in highsec for various purposes, we can quite easily imagine that for every non-highsec character, the same player has a highsec alt…

…and suddenly those 30% non-highsec characters translate into the game having 60% non-highsec players. The simple fact of the matter is that all we know is how a very naïve population statistic looks — the percentage of character sitting in a specific sec level at the time of the data collection (where, btw, the highsec population has gone down over the last couple of years) — but we know very little (in fact nothing) about how the players are distributed.

While true it could break down that way it doesn't mean that it DOES break down in the same manner. The only issue I have with your arguments regarding population is that it seems to state near factually that all nullsec players have highsec alts and therefore comprise the majority of the player base despite the fact that we don't have the supporting data to confirm this. As someone with 5 characters all in highsec I'm sure I'm weighting the average in a direction opposite of what you suggest. There is also the question of if a person should be counted as a nullsec player just for having a character there while spending the majority of their playtime elsewhere.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#76 - 2012-05-07 19:29:42 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
This might have been me, although I'm not sure.

The point I was trying to make is that we don't want the same levels of inflation. That's why we'll do a lot of adjustments that may sometimes feel like nerfs, because we've managed to keeps EVEs economy healthy for 9 years and that needs to continue.

Edit: On a sidenote, I <3 UO very much.



The medicine that works the best often tastes the worst.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#77 - 2012-05-07 19:32:19 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Iamien wrote:
We don't need to think about that possibility. Thanks to CCP's and other player's marketing there is a constant supply of new players.


So starting to play EVE as a 'carebear' is like joining a FPS server where you're alone against many people on the other team. That's some brilliant game design.


Playing dumb is and should be "punished".

All you have to do is be alert, develop situational awareness, work well with others, accept an element of risk in pursuit of rewards and be prepared to learn from your mistakes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2012-05-07 19:32:28 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Iamien wrote:
We don't need to think about that possibility. Thanks to CCP's and other player's marketing there is a constant supply of new players.

So starting to play EVE as a 'carebear' is like joining a FPS server where you're alone against many people on the other team. That's some brilliant game design.

Yeah, EVE is pretty hard.

Blob4Lyfe

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#79 - 2012-05-07 19:35:21 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
You keep saying this on thread after thread, It's a pretty sure bet that if 70-85% of the pilots are in high sec, then the bulk of the player base is there.
…except that it's not.

If 70% of the characters are in highsec, it means that 30% are not. Considering that every account has ~2½ characters on it on average, and considering the widespread use of “utility alts”, and considering the convenience factor of having an alt in highsec for various purposes, we can quite easily imagine that for every non-highsec character, the same player has a highsec alt…

…and suddenly those 30% non-highsec characters translate into the game having 60% non-highsec players. The simple fact of the matter is that all we know is how a very naïve population statistic looks — the percentage of character sitting in a specific sec level at the time of the data collection (where, btw, the highsec population has gone down over the last couple of years) — but we know very little (in fact nothing) about how the players are distributed.

While true it could break down that way it doesn't mean that it DOES break down in the same manner. The only issue I have with your arguments regarding population is that it seems to state near factually that all nullsec players have highsec alts and therefore comprise the majority of the player base despite the fact that we don't have the supporting data to confirm this. As someone with 5 characters all in highsec I'm sure I'm weighting the average in a direction opposite of what you suggest. There is also the question of if a person should be counted as a nullsec player just for having a character there while spending the majority of their playtime elsewhere.



What percentage of characters in hi-sec do you think are "alts" of players who think of themselves as 0.0 focused?

Just give me your "gut-feeling" number - I won't hold you to any kind of precision.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-05-07 19:39:47 UTC
Twulf wrote:
Joe Skellington wrote:
Twulf wrote:

Depends on what you call fail. WOW has no fear, no challenge and no loss and yet it makes way more money then EVE could ever hope to make and has more subs then CCP could ever dream up having. So to Blizzard and the other 11 million people WOW is anything but a failure but hey lets not let facts get in your way. Rant away with your nonsense and poor logic.


Oh god, wow started failing hard when Activision took the helm, you were right pre-Lichking. As it stands now, wow is losing subs left and right. Blizzard even made it free to play up to level 20 because it's getting so bad. Their online store is selling in-game pets like no tomorrow.


How are you this stupid? Do you have to work at it or does it come natural?

If you think that CCP would not love to see the "failing hard" that Activision is currently going through you are out of your mind.

CCP would love to have the sub numbers that WOW has. Your crazy if you do not think so.

Also Sooner or later EVE is going to have to be more open to casual solo gamers that want to have "safe" area's this is called evolution, the game changes to match the needs of its player base. More players = good for EVE. EVE will never be 100% safe but it will change from what you Vets think it should be. CCP is the only one that has a say in it. If CCP sees more money and subs in making it more "Carebear" friendly, then they are going to make it more carebear friendly. Its called business.


Actually I'm not sure they could manage wow's subscriber base. They're too big for any single server. CCP have only recently deployed good enough tech to handle 2000 in one system, I bet they can't handle 200,000 in Jita and 2000 in every highsec system.
I think the current level of safety is fine. The fact that some miners think they're entitled to fly an untanked 300 million ISK ship with zero consequences indicates it may actually still be too safe.