Assembly Hall

Battleships are not 800k in null, and a retriver is 20 million. Most of the "pvp" I see in nullsec is 2004 vets in super-fast ships with massive alpha appear, obliterate a 2 month ~ 1 year old toon, and vanish out of system. Then you get the huge fleet fights, where the whole game performance crawls to a slideshow mess, then a bomber wing obliterates everyone.

You seem to have forgotten that you can make combat ships more expensive OR you can make mining ships cheaper. As things stand, I can see why people ridicule this game so much - your arguments simply don't reflect the experiences of many other players, and because you are so full of self-righteous bullshit you don't even realise how weak your argument is. You don't make 25 million an hour on minerals in nullsec - because you have no-one there to BUY anything off you. WIthout Highsec, there is no game. Nullsec is a bad joke, with a great deal of boring mechanics that are nothing more than poorly designed ISK sinks. THat is my personal impression: null needs work. And too bad if you don't like it, but don't tell me how easy it is in Nullsec, because it's not. What you mean by nullsec is probably the "we never ever have pvp here" Goons reigon or something, where the players are so bored they go to Highsec.

This thread is so full of terribly thought out posts and really really bad logic that it hurts my head.

Dust wont make any money unless the Dust players move to Eve? Someone hasn't been paying the slightest bit of attention to the way the MMO market is moving. Free to play games earn more money than most subscription games. Want to know how? Play one and you'll see.

There is nothing wrong with mining ships, there is nothing wrong with the price or effectiveness of destroyers, and there is nothing wrong with highsec. The only problem we do appear to have is that suicide ganking is too easy. And so any sensible person who sees the above would just think "Change the mechanics of how easy it is to suicide gank", or "Make the consequences of suicide ganking more dire".

Don't drag other aspects of the game into an already complicated subject. They don't have to have anything to do with it.

The primary issue I have with these suggestions/arguments is, as a whole, they generally promote the creation of an isolated niche population within the game, which runs counter to the core of EVE.

Sure there are some updates that probably should be made to industrial/mining ships to make them a bit more competitive vs upgrades to combat mechanics/ships, however there are reasonable steps that can be made to make high-sec a lot safer by becoming more organized. You know, actually interacting with others in a sandbox MMO.

Every remotely successful group of players in EVE has some level of organization. This is already what you're kind of proposing with a "crafting guild." Rather than introducing some artificial mechanic, why don't you go out and organize a player-manned version with similar objectives as those that you proposed? If it looks like too much work.... then find a way to share the workload with others that share your vision.

In any event, the further compartmentalization of the EVE universe is not the answer.

But I am entitled to raise an issue when gankers drive my mining friends out of the game. Why? Because I paid real money to play this game, and I think the HighSec ganking has revealed what I consider to be real flaws in the game design and balance. This game has been underperforming for years: for ages, CCP thought it was that people were too distant from their characters, so they added walking in stations. That hasn't really changed all that much though. Guess what, the issue seems to be greifers being total wankers for no better reason than they are bored. That has killed other PvP games. Offline, gone, dead. I don't want that to happen here, with EVE underperforming and limping along with ever less-well-balanced shiny toy ships being used to appease the restless (thinning) masses.

Miners have been forgotten, while year after year, pvpers have been given a rediculous amount of new ships, so many in fact that nearly all the original ships are simply obsolete. You can build what, 3 Oracles for the minerals it takes to build an Apocalypse? Guess which does more damage at 100 km, and which gets to warp quicker if things are not going your way. Yay, well done CCP, again. Nice balance there ... not. I'm waiting for the mini-carrier-Titan-combo-battlecruiser next

It's CCP's fault you don't watch local, use D-scan, mine away from the default warpin point, mine in empty systems or tank your hulks? (If you're that worried about highsec gankers, move to nullsec or wormhole space. There must be corps around who'll take you without any of the uninformed BS you guys always spew when the suggestion is made. As a nullsec resident for ~18 months or so, I've never experienced most of what gets complained about.)

Ganking is not griefing. if I gank you once, it's a gank. If I gank you exclusivley every time you undock in highsec? Yeah, that's griefy.

If tier 3 BCs have replaced battleships, why do the nullsec entities use battleships as the mainstay of their fleets? Why do highsec missionrunners use battleships? Why do I use a magathron over a talos for ratting?

I don't think you know what balance is either. Put an oracle into a brawl an apoc would come out of perfectly fine, and you'll find you have a dead oracle. They fill different roles entirely.

Not that you'll read any of this...

you getting a new mining barge with battleship like ehp. now stop complaining.

So basically, we're all supposed to bend over backwards and change *fundamental* game play features for people who want to pay real money to fly ships they don't understand how to operate? Talk about pay to win, no thanks. You seem to forget the MANY players who have been here through the years, and those like myself who are new and appreciate the game mechanics. I've been ganked, gate-camped, the whole nine yards, and you know what? It doesn't bother me, I usually try to ask the player questions and get advice afterwards.



Have you seen some of the killmails where people die in noob ships with 5, 10, even 30 PLEX in their cargohold? Do you think CCP reimbursed them? NO. Because to do that would tamper with the fundamental philosophy of the game, and would drive away a lot more members than it attracts.




Just because you wanted to pay stupid amounts of real life money to immediately jump into a ship you don't understand how to fly properly doesn't mean you should be catered to over the people who form the rest of the community.


I've bought PLEX as well, and you know what I do with it? I buy **** I can afford to lose. Never fly anything you can't afford to lose. Before you go whining about how we need to fundamentally change the game, why don't you, I don't know, experience some progression and learn the mechanics? Why would you possibly want to just jump in completely alpha in every way (when it comes to mining)? We're supposed to respect that?



Don't assume everyone who has bought a plex is a stupid scrubnub about it. I did it to fund my corp, we operate within our means and it's working out. Sorry it's kind of hard to just buy your way into mining-godhood. What a cheap and silly way to start playing a game. I mean, how much more can you complain? You're playing a game where you can shell out real money to leap-frog months or years ahead of other noobs in terms of skill and income and you want there to be no risk. Guess what, if you could do all of that AND not be at any risk of losing that expensive ship you bought with PLEX money, eve would effectively be pay to win. And you miners deserve that exclusive right why again?




Also, one more note, why do miners always portray their chosen profession as the default choice of the new player? It's always the same "You're not hurting us, you're hurting the new guy!" appeal. I'm new and I've never mined, neither have my corpmates, and we most likely never will, because that looks like a dreadfully stupid way to spend your time in a game.

You're quite right it is broken, but you fail to see why, even after spelling out most of the relevant facts yourself in your own posts..

Simply in game like EVE, the farms and fields which includes mining shouldn't be in what is High sec to begin with. It's because you can gather resources under the protection of CONCORD/Crimewatch that players resort to suicide ganking, and it's because of those same CONCORD/Crimewatch mechanics that player guards as you suggested simply don't work,

It isn't CCP failing to deal with Highsec "Griefers" that has been holding back this game, most of those players are better thought of as part of the immune system response of the Sandbox to unhealthy anti-sandbox gameplay. What's holding back EVE from it's real potential is the Themepark-ish game mechanics found in Highsec, and CCP's unwillingness to really address that problem.

I'll simply ask of this: How will these high sec players ever get to more lucrative low sec areas, where they would fully expect to be targeted and so accept then if they were popped and but also be prepared to counter and or defend, if they are for ever getting ganked and losing all in what i suppose we could term the "Nursery" of Eve?

Players need some where to grow an learn the ropes to enable them to move on. And don't forget that some times even the "Immune System" gets it wrong. It actually harms the body, that's called an allergic reaction.

Maybe if there are not enough players in low sec areas to keep the gankers occupied its because they are preventing other players from ever managing to get there.

next thing we gonna hear will be miners complaining the procurer has only 1 high slot. outputs 1/3rd of the hulk bla bla bla