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Major scam

Author
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-05-07 21:41:44 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
there's a thread "warning" about this literally once a week or more


Definitely not always as hilarious though.
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#82 - 2012-05-07 21:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyndrogen
corestwo wrote:
okay we'll spell this one out for you

if orders that were created with margin trading were marked somehow - decorated with skull & crossbones and radiation symbols, perhaps, just to make it really really clear for people like you - then the entire buy side of the market would look like chernobyl. the reason for this is that the vast majority of its usage is completely legitimate and above the table and there is no way to turn the skill off once you've trained it, nor is there ever much of a reason to.

did I make that clear enough, or should I use smaller words for you?


and this is bad how? I like the skull and crossbones idea. Very appropriate.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#83 - 2012-05-07 21:44:42 UTC
corestwo wrote:
two years of mission running and you only have a billion isk?


Shocked


I lose a lot of ships too. I never said I was good at eve. Eve is easy when you have no job.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#84 - 2012-05-07 21:44:47 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
corestwo wrote:
okay we'll spell this one out for you

if orders that were created with margin trading were marked somehow - decorated with skull & crossbones and radiation symbols, perhaps, just to make it really really clear for people like you - then the entire buy side of the market would look like chernobyl. the reason for this is that the vast majority of its usage is completely legitimate and above the table and there is no way to turn the skill off once you've trained it, nor is there ever much of a reason to.

did I make that clear enough, or should I use smaller words for you?


and this is bad how?

let's say I sell a product that can detect if a person has aids

except it shows everyone as having aids

margin trading is like aids -- everyone has it so detecting if they have aids is useless
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#85 - 2012-05-07 21:47:43 UTC
apparently I didn't make it clear enough, which means his metaphor will probably escape you too.


if every warning is lit up like fukushima to warn you that it was created with margin trading and might be a scam, they might as well not be lit up at all

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#86 - 2012-05-07 21:48:49 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
corestwo wrote:
okay we'll spell this one out for you

if orders that were created with margin trading were marked somehow - decorated with skull & crossbones and radiation symbols, perhaps, just to make it really really clear for people like you - then the entire buy side of the market would look like chernobyl. the reason for this is that the vast majority of its usage is completely legitimate and above the table and there is no way to turn the skill off once you've trained it, nor is there ever much of a reason to.

did I make that clear enough, or should I use smaller words for you?


and this is bad how?

let's say I sell a product that can detect if a person has aids

except it shows everyone as having aids

margin trading is like aids -- everyone has it so detecting if they have aids is useless



Well, if I knew what to look for maybe I could have avoided the scam, the problem is I did not understand how margin trading worked since there are no tutorials so yeah, I screwed up, I admit that but that still doesn't change the fact that buy orders are ficticious and unless you understand what a margin trade is there is no way for someone to tell if they are being scammed or not. It looks like a legitimate buy order.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2012-05-07 21:49:40 UTC
the man has a point the game should require you to pass such advanced tests as 2+2= ??? and "the sky is blue y/n" before allowing you to do something as dangerous as buy something off the market

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#88 - 2012-05-07 21:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyndrogen
Weaselior wrote:
the man has a point the game should require you to pass such advanced tests as 2+2= ??? and "the sky is blue y/n" before allowing you to do something as dangerous as buy something off the market


I love how all the goons support margin trading as a legitimate game mechanic. Are you too afraid that CCP might actually fix it? That margin trading might be more visible then what is currently in game?

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#89 - 2012-05-07 21:54:33 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Tell you the truth, I've never scammed in my life. I have all of three suicide ganks to my name, ever. All of my beating up on carebears is done out in 0.0, where they're implicitly consent to PvP, whether they think they have or not.


I still hold that eve should be the way it is, that things like this scam, and thievery in general, and suicide ganking, and so on, should be possible. If you want a game where that kinda stuff isn't allowed, go find one. This one isn't it.

e: Lets be clear here, you're saying that the game, which CCP has designed from day one to allow for the unwary player to lose everything, should not be a game in which you can lose everything. So uh, yeah.


Dude where did you read in my post that I said this should NOT be allowed?
I said people should be AWARE not, kill this game mechanic.

Gank, loot, steal, whatever have fun hopefully while doing it, I'm just not sure how you read this as STOP MARGIN TRADING.

I never said that.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#90 - 2012-05-07 21:56:24 UTC
I've never used margin trading in a scammy way in the entirety of my eve career.

I did use it to trade 50m isk into 18b isk over the course of about six months which was possible because having the skill maxed out meant I was able to effectively "trade" with what was effectively four times the amount of isk that I had in my wallet at a minimum at any given time, though, and as I've been tutoring several newbie goons in the ins & outs of the market, including how to leverage margin trading in the same way, yes, I do worry sometimes that they'll cave to whiners like you and remove it.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#91 - 2012-05-07 21:58:06 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:

I never said that.

good thing I was talking to someone who did then! while you're the center of attention in this thread, you're not it's only participant; please stop trying to insert yourself into the civil discussion Liberty Eternal & I had back on the first page.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Jason Xado
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-05-07 22:06:06 UTC
Is this even a margin trade issue? Couldn't someone simply cancel the buy order once they see someone filled the sale order? I know you can cancel sell order. I don't know much about buy orders so I could be wrong. I'm just curiuos.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-05-07 22:06:52 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
Is this even a margin trade issue? Couldn't someone simply cancel the buy order once they see someone filled the sale order? I know you can cancel sell orders. I don't know much about buy orders so I could be wrong. I'm just curiuos.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2012-05-07 22:09:06 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
Is this even a margin trade issue? Couldn't someone simply cancel the buy order once they see someone filled the sale order? I know you can cancel sell order. I don't know much about buy orders so I could be wrong. I'm just curiuos.

Easily, this just does it automatically.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#95 - 2012-05-07 22:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mu-Shi Ai
cyndrogen wrote:


Why would I buy something if it was clearly market as a margin trade and not a buy order?

a BUY order would cover the funds, a margin order may or may not have the funds.

If you are still stupid enough to go ahead and attempt a margin trade, fine you deserve to be scammed.

The issue right now is that there is no way to tell if the BUY order is backed by any funds before you decide to make the trade.



And if the buy order can't cover the funds, it fails, the person who placed it loses their broker fee with no payoff, and you get to simply sell to another buy order. You're out nothing! Other than, of course, the difference between the real market value of the products you purchased and the overly high amount you paid due to not doing proper market research.

I reiterate: What if the buy order had been totally, 100% legit, but it was just a matter of somebody getting to it right before you? What if somebody else had made that ridiculous profit, leaving you hanging with goods bought at too high a price? How would you know the difference? Would it still be a scam?

The point being that the one thing you can control in all of this is your decision to purchase those products. If you don't buy them, then the scam never happens. That is the power you have over this situation. It's quite a lot of power, when you think about it. The funny thing is that, psychologically, everyone who falls for this scam knows that the profit potential is in "too good to be true" territory. That's why they buy the overpriced stuff, because they think "Oh, this is too good, a once-in-a-lifetime chance to roll over that mission dough!" What I'm going to tell you now, and what I think everybody has implicitly been telling you here, is that, if you have that feeling, that is a major, major, major red flag. Immediately go to EVE-Central or get an in-game price check on the goods in question. Because more often than not, the fishiness will reveal itself as flat-out scam bait.

I'm sorry that you got scammed. Really, I am. But chalk it up as a lesson learned. You must run some sort of due diligence when you come upon seemingly tasty situations like that.
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#96 - 2012-05-07 23:01:54 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
If I had any stuff left I would give it away...
You got a real purdy face.
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#97 - 2012-05-07 23:17:07 UTC
corestwo wrote:
I've never used margin trading in a scammy way in the entirety of my eve career.

I did use it to trade 50m isk into 18b isk over the course of about six months which was possible because having the skill maxed out meant I was able to effectively "trade" with what was effectively four times the amount of isk that I had in my wallet at a minimum at any given time, though, and as I've been tutoring several newbie goons in the ins & outs of the market, including how to leverage margin trading in the same way, yes, I do worry sometimes that they'll cave to whiners like you and remove it.


Has anyopne ever told you that your avatar looks just like Grand Moff Tarkin?

He blew up right?

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2012-05-07 23:34:18 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
corestwo wrote:
I've never used margin trading in a scammy way in the entirety of my eve career.

I did use it to trade 50m isk into 18b isk over the course of about six months which was possible because having the skill maxed out meant I was able to effectively "trade" with what was effectively four times the amount of isk that I had in my wallet at a minimum at any given time, though, and as I've been tutoring several newbie goons in the ins & outs of the market, including how to leverage margin trading in the same way, yes, I do worry sometimes that they'll cave to whiners like you and remove it.


Has anyopne ever told you that your avatar looks just like Grand Moff Tarkin?

He blew up right?

has anyone ever told you your posting looks like forrest gump's?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#99 - 2012-05-07 23:36:11 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
cyndrogen wrote:
corestwo wrote:
I've never used margin trading in a scammy way in the entirety of my eve career.

I did use it to trade 50m isk into 18b isk over the course of about six months which was possible because having the skill maxed out meant I was able to effectively "trade" with what was effectively four times the amount of isk that I had in my wallet at a minimum at any given time, though, and as I've been tutoring several newbie goons in the ins & outs of the market, including how to leverage margin trading in the same way, yes, I do worry sometimes that they'll cave to whiners like you and remove it.


Has anyopne ever told you that your avatar looks just like Grand Moff Tarkin?

He blew up right?

has anyone ever told you your posting looks like forrest gump's?


Thanks everyone liked that movie!

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#100 - 2012-05-07 23:43:58 UTC
yep...sure looks like forrest gump's posting all right. What?

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo