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(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system & Macro miners in Eve, how to make life harder for them.

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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#241 - 2012-06-27 11:09:35 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
You are all just feeding Ribs insanity. There is no reasoning as he doesn't think logically.
Just ignore him and link my post of why fundamentally asking for a counter to cloakers is fundamentally flawed.


I find it greatly amusing, he keeps talking about how players who aren't at the computer are "inflicting serious economic damage" on him.

For the thousandth time, Rib, how does an AFK player prevent you making isk? Just go ahead and mine/rat/whatever. They're afk so can't/won't do anything. I'm only trying to help
Kahn Soomer
Beverage Production and Consumption
#242 - 2012-06-27 21:56:02 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
You are all just feeding Ribs insanity. There is no reasoning as he doesn't think logically.
Just ignore him and link my post of why fundamentally asking for a counter to cloakers is fundamentally flawed.


I find it greatly amusing, he keeps talking about how players who aren't at the computer are "inflicting serious economic damage" on him.

For the thousandth time, Rib, how does an AFK player prevent you making isk? Just go ahead and mine/rat/whatever. They're afk so can't/won't do anything. I'm only trying to help


Trolls detected. But, why Troll on poor Rib? His first language probably isn't English, but he's done a pretty good job explaining what you already know about use of the Covert Ops Cloaking Device in a hostile system for an Extended Period of Time.

You remember? We already agreed the EXTENDED AFK CLOAK has the following effects (a/k/a "grief"):
1. It always causes the local system count and activity to become reduced;
2. Players either log off to go play another game, or (if lucky) find some friendly escort to leave/move system;
3. Players without an escort, or who have a lot of their PvE assets "stuck" in that system occasionally stay docked and whine in local (offering goodfights, cursing, posting sad links, etc. trying to get the AFK cloaker to leave, but he's not at his keys to respond, anyways) until they realize he is AFK and/or isn't leaving and then they log off (thinking they are unfairly prevented from playing - particularly the PvE);
4. Some players undock after a few hours and leave solo with minimal gear... others undock and start doing PvE or transport duties assuming the cloaker is AFK. He probably is AFK, and they are okay for a little while. But, after a few hours, the local blues who ignore the cloaky red in local usually end up on the wrong side of a kill mail. Yep, the AFK dude came back. Whether he comes back, or not, that's always the psychological threat which causes the system to empty and play to stop.

In other words, (a) some players get upset and whine, (b) some players just log out (upset or not, they are off to find something more fun to do), and/or (c) players ignore the cloaker and lose a PvE ship (either to the cloaker or his hot dropper friends).

So, of course there are economic consequences. This is often called GRIEFING the SYSTEM when it's done 24/7. A few years ago, players would actually undock and try to hunt the cloakers, or to try and bait them, but this has proven to be a terrible waste of time. There is currently just no countermeasure while the Cov Ops Cloak is turned on.

Keep saying the cloaker "isn't doing anythihng". It's funny. The cloaker is playing a psychological warfare stunt (see cause and effect above). His goals are to Grief the System, and/or get his buddies (or himself) onto some killmails with little or no risk. Naturally, he's going to object to adding a bit more balance to the Cov Ops Cloaking Device. The trolls don't want to lose their advantage to shut down a null sec system, particularly the system that a small alliance has paid billions of isk to conquer, purchase the claim units/I-Hubs and work hard to get rights to buy and install the I-HUB UPGRADES. It's not cheap, is it?

You don't have to admit this causes economic damage. The effects of unlimited extended AFK Cloaks are obvious.

Rib isn't saying to eliminate the tactic. He's just asking for some balance against the "extended AFK".

Next troll?
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#243 - 2012-06-27 23:58:23 UTC
Soomer. The fact that you seemed to forget that the whole counter arguement AGREEs with your points. But the point is this denial of space is the whole purpose of covert ops.
Or did you not read my post? Keep the troll comments to those who don't seem to read.
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#244 - 2012-06-28 06:26:00 UTC
Kahn Soomer wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
You are all just feeding Ribs insanity. There is no reasoning as he doesn't think logically.
Just ignore him and link my post of why fundamentally asking for a counter to cloakers is fundamentally flawed.


I find it greatly amusing, he keeps talking about how players who aren't at the computer are "inflicting serious economic damage" on him.

For the thousandth time, Rib, how does an AFK player prevent you making isk? Just go ahead and mine/rat/whatever. They're afk so can't/won't do anything. I'm only trying to help


Trolls detected. But, why Troll on poor Rib? His first language probably isn't English, but he's done a pretty good job explaining what you already know about use of the Covert Ops Cloaking Device in a hostile system for an Extended Period of Time.

You remember? We already agreed the EXTENDED AFK CLOAK has the following effects (a/k/a "grief"):
1. It always causes the local system count and activity to become reduced;
2. Players either log off to go play another game, or (if lucky) find some friendly escort to leave/move system;
3. Players without an escort, or who have a lot of their PvE assets "stuck" in that system occasionally stay docked and whine in local (offering goodfights, cursing, posting sad links, etc. trying to get the AFK cloaker to leave, but he's not at his keys to respond, anyways) until they realize he is AFK and/or isn't leaving and then they log off (thinking they are unfairly prevented from playing - particularly the PvE);
4. Some players undock after a few hours and leave solo with minimal gear... others undock and start doing PvE or transport duties assuming the cloaker is AFK. He probably is AFK, and they are okay for a little while. But, after a few hours, the local blues who ignore the cloaky red in local usually end up on the wrong side of a kill mail. Yep, the AFK dude came back. Whether he comes back, or not, that's always the psychological threat which causes the system to empty and play to stop.

In other words, (a) some players get upset and whine, (b) some players just log out (upset or not, they are off to find something more fun to do), and/or (c) players ignore the cloaker and lose a PvE ship (either to the cloaker or his hot dropper friends).

So, of course there are economic consequences. This is often called GRIEFING the SYSTEM when it's done 24/7. A few years ago, players would actually undock and try to hunt the cloakers, or to try and bait them, but this has proven to be a terrible waste of time. There is currently just no countermeasure while the Cov Ops Cloak is turned on.

Keep saying the cloaker "isn't doing anythihng". It's funny. The cloaker is playing a psychological warfare stunt (see cause and effect above). His goals are to Grief the System, and/or get his buddies (or himself) onto some killmails with little or no risk. Naturally, he's going to object to adding a bit more balance to the Cov Ops Cloaking Device. The trolls don't want to lose their advantage to shut down a null sec system, particularly the system that a small alliance has paid billions of isk to conquer, purchase the claim units/I-Hubs and work hard to get rights to buy and install the I-HUB UPGRADES. It's not cheap, is it?

You don't have to admit this causes economic damage. The effects of unlimited extended AFK Cloaks are obvious.

Rib isn't saying to eliminate the tactic. He's just asking for some balance against the "extended AFK".

Next troll?


Great explanation
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#245 - 2012-06-28 09:06:43 UTC
Kahn Soomer wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
You are all just feeding Ribs insanity. There is no reasoning as he doesn't think logically.
Just ignore him and link my post of why fundamentally asking for a counter to cloakers is fundamentally flawed.


I find it greatly amusing, he keeps talking about how players who aren't at the computer are "inflicting serious economic damage" on him.

For the thousandth time, Rib, how does an AFK player prevent you making isk? Just go ahead and mine/rat/whatever. They're afk so can't/won't do anything. I'm only trying to help


Trolls detected. But, why Troll on poor Rib? His first language probably isn't English, but he's done a pretty good job explaining what you already know about use of the Covert Ops Cloaking Device in a hostile system for an Extended Period of Time.

You remember? We already agreed the EXTENDED AFK CLOAK has the following effects (a/k/a "grief"):
1. It always causes the local system count and activity to become reduced;
2. Players either log off to go play another game, or (if lucky) find some friendly escort to leave/move system;
3. Players without an escort, or who have a lot of their PvE assets "stuck" in that system occasionally stay docked and whine in local (offering goodfights, cursing, posting sad links, etc. trying to get the AFK cloaker to leave, but he's not at his keys to respond, anyways) until they realize he is AFK and/or isn't leaving and then they log off (thinking they are unfairly prevented from playing - particularly the PvE);
4. Some players undock after a few hours and leave solo with minimal gear... others undock and start doing PvE or transport duties assuming the cloaker is AFK. He probably is AFK, and they are okay for a little while. But, after a few hours, the local blues who ignore the cloaky red in local usually end up on the wrong side of a kill mail. Yep, the AFK dude came back. Whether he comes back, or not, that's always the psychological threat which causes the system to empty and play to stop.

In other words, (a) some players get upset and whine, (b) some players just log out (upset or not, they are off to find something more fun to do), and/or (c) players ignore the cloaker and lose a PvE ship (either to the cloaker or his hot dropper friends).

So, of course there are economic consequences. This is often called GRIEFING the SYSTEM when it's done 24/7. A few years ago, players would actually undock and try to hunt the cloakers, or to try and bait them, but this has proven to be a terrible waste of time. There is currently just no countermeasure while the Cov Ops Cloak is turned on.

Keep saying the cloaker "isn't doing anythihng". It's funny. The cloaker is playing a psychological warfare stunt (see cause and effect above). His goals are to Grief the System, and/or get his buddies (or himself) onto some killmails with little or no risk. Naturally, he's going to object to adding a bit more balance to the Cov Ops Cloaking Device. The trolls don't want to lose their advantage to shut down a null sec system, particularly the system that a small alliance has paid billions of isk to conquer, purchase the claim units/I-Hubs and work hard to get rights to buy and install the I-HUB UPGRADES. It's not cheap, is it?

You don't have to admit this causes economic damage. The effects of unlimited extended AFK Cloaks are obvious.

Rib isn't saying to eliminate the tactic. He's just asking for some balance against the "extended AFK".

Next troll?


Re-read your last line. Rib is asking for the game to be "balanced" against players who aren't even playing. That is simply dumb, sorry.

An afk cloaker does not inflict economic damage on anyone, they inflict it on themselves by weighing the risk vs reward and making their choice. You have no right to whine or change game mechanics because you CHOSE to not make isk.

As far as using cloaked ships as a "psychological warfare stunt" to scare the babies into choosing (again I must stress the fact that it is a CHOICE) to not make isk is a valid gameplay mechanic, in fact it's the kind of mechanic that makes EVE so bloody brilliant.

The fact of the matter is that EVE is a sandbox with other people. You have to deal with the sandbox you're in - if you weigh the risk vs reward and decide to not risk it, then good on you, that's a valid choice, that's the playstyle that suits you. Making that choice is not being "griefed", it is simply the nature of EVE: You make choices based on what you value or desire. Screaming for it to be changed and claiming that anything you don't like is personal harassment/griefing is just stupid. If you do that then you're playing the wrong game.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2012-06-28 13:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaelie Onren
EDIT: not worth it. Roll
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#247 - 2012-06-28 16:50:32 UTC
Kahn Soomer wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
You are all just feeding Ribs insanity. There is no reasoning as he doesn't think logically.
Just ignore him and link my post of why fundamentally asking for a counter to cloakers is fundamentally flawed.


I find it greatly amusing, he keeps talking about how players who aren't at the computer are "inflicting serious economic damage" on him.

For the thousandth time, Rib, how does an AFK player prevent you making isk? Just go ahead and mine/rat/whatever. They're afk so can't/won't do anything. I'm only trying to help


Trolls detected. But, why Troll on poor Rib? His first language probably isn't English, but he's done a pretty good job explaining what you already know about use of the Covert Ops Cloaking Device in a hostile system for an Extended Period of Time.

You remember? We already agreed the EXTENDED AFK CLOAK has the following effects (a/k/a "grief"):
1. It always causes the local system count and activity to become reduced;
2. Players either log off to go play another game, or (if lucky) find some friendly escort to leave/move system;
3. Players without an escort, or who have a lot of their PvE assets "stuck" in that system occasionally stay docked and whine in local (offering goodfights, cursing, posting sad links, etc. trying to get the AFK cloaker to leave, but he's not at his keys to respond, anyways) until they realize he is AFK and/or isn't leaving and then they log off (thinking they are unfairly prevented from playing - particularly the PvE);
4. Some players undock after a few hours and leave solo with minimal gear... others undock and start doing PvE or transport duties assuming the cloaker is AFK. He probably is AFK, and they are okay for a little while. But, after a few hours, the local blues who ignore the cloaky red in local usually end up on the wrong side of a kill mail. Yep, the AFK dude came back. Whether he comes back, or not, that's always the psychological threat which causes the system to empty and play to stop.

In other words, (a) some players get upset and whine, (b) some players just log out (upset or not, they are off to find something more fun to do), and/or (c) players ignore the cloaker and lose a PvE ship (either to the cloaker or his hot dropper friends).

So, of course there are economic consequences. This is often called GRIEFING the SYSTEM when it's done 24/7. A few years ago, players would actually undock and try to hunt the cloakers, or to try and bait them, but this has proven to be a terrible waste of time. There is currently just no countermeasure while the Cov Ops Cloak is turned on.

Keep saying the cloaker "isn't doing anythihng". It's funny. The cloaker is playing a psychological warfare stunt (see cause and effect above). His goals are to Grief the System, and/or get his buddies (or himself) onto some killmails with little or no risk. Naturally, he's going to object to adding a bit more balance to the Cov Ops Cloaking Device. The trolls don't want to lose their advantage to shut down a null sec system, particularly the system that a small alliance has paid billions of isk to conquer, purchase the claim units/I-Hubs and work hard to get rights to buy and install the I-HUB UPGRADES. It's not cheap, is it?

You don't have to admit this causes economic damage. The effects of unlimited extended AFK Cloaks are obvious.

Rib isn't saying to eliminate the tactic. He's just asking for some balance against the "extended AFK".

Next troll?


Forget TheGunslinger42 troll.
Ta-Dam
#248 - 2012-07-02 08:02:44 UTC
Kahn Soomer wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
You are all just feeding Ribs insanity. There is no reasoning as he doesn't think logically.
Just ignore him and link my post of why fundamentally asking for a counter to cloakers is fundamentally flawed.


I find it greatly amusing, he keeps talking about how players who aren't at the computer are "inflicting serious economic damage" on him.

For the thousandth time, Rib, how does an AFK player prevent you making isk? Just go ahead and mine/rat/whatever. They're afk so can't/won't do anything. I'm only trying to help


Trolls detected. But, why Troll on poor Rib? His first language probably isn't English, but he's done a pretty good job explaining what you already know about use of the Covert Ops Cloaking Device in a hostile system for an Extended Period of Time.

You remember? We already agreed the EXTENDED AFK CLOAK has the following effects (a/k/a "grief"):
1. It always causes the local system count and activity to become reduced;
2. Players either log off to go play another game, or (if lucky) find some friendly escort to leave/move system;
3. Players without an escort, or who have a lot of their PvE assets "stuck" in that system occasionally stay docked and whine in local (offering goodfights, cursing, posting sad links, etc. trying to get the AFK cloaker to leave, but he's not at his keys to respond, anyways) until they realize he is AFK and/or isn't leaving and then they log off (thinking they are unfairly prevented from playing - particularly the PvE);
4. Some players undock after a few hours and leave solo with minimal gear... others undock and start doing PvE or transport duties assuming the cloaker is AFK. He probably is AFK, and they are okay for a little while. But, after a few hours, the local blues who ignore the cloaky red in local usually end up on the wrong side of a kill mail. Yep, the AFK dude came back. Whether he comes back, or not, that's always the psychological threat which causes the system to empty and play to stop.

In other words, (a) some players get upset and whine, (b) some players just log out (upset or not, they are off to find something more fun to do), and/or (c) players ignore the cloaker and lose a PvE ship (either to the cloaker or his hot dropper friends).

So, of course there are economic consequences. This is often called GRIEFING the SYSTEM when it's done 24/7. A few years ago, players would actually undock and try to hunt the cloakers, or to try and bait them, but this has proven to be a terrible waste of time. There is currently just no countermeasure while the Cov Ops Cloak is turned on.

Keep saying the cloaker "isn't doing anythihng". It's funny. The cloaker is playing a psychological warfare stunt (see cause and effect above). His goals are to Grief the System, and/or get his buddies (or himself) onto some killmails with little or no risk. Naturally, he's going to object to adding a bit more balance to the Cov Ops Cloaking Device. The trolls don't want to lose their advantage to shut down a null sec system, particularly the system that a small alliance has paid billions of isk to conquer, purchase the claim units/I-Hubs and work hard to get rights to buy and install the I-HUB UPGRADES. It's not cheap, is it?

You don't have to admit this causes economic damage. The effects of unlimited extended AFK Cloaks are obvious.

Rib isn't saying to eliminate the tactic. He's just asking for some balance against the "extended AFK".

Next troll?


+1
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#249 - 2012-07-02 09:01:21 UTC
I liked the part where the real trolls couldn't muster up a response to my arguments and so used their army of alts to scream troll at me
Ta-Dam
#250 - 2012-07-02 23:36:23 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I liked the part where the real trolls couldn't muster up a response to my arguments and so used their army of alts to scream troll at me



Because you are the bigest troll here ?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#251 - 2012-07-03 12:31:09 UTC
Point proven. Instead of responding to the points people raise you just repeat "troll".
Losvar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#252 - 2012-07-04 20:54:22 UTC
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2012-07-05 05:41:50 UTC
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.
Nhi'Khuna
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2012-07-05 07:18:02 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.


I'm sure you and the 2 other people spamming D-scan while the solo "SCARY AFK GUY" sits in system won't cause appreciable degredation of system performance. If we're safe in a wormhole with 20+ people spamming D-Scan (with no local when there could be dozens of AFK cloakers without us knowing) while running ops, I'm sure you'll be safe if one guy in a cloaked ship is enough to scare you out of mining. I say 2 people because why else would you be running for the hills when one lone person shows up in local in a cloaky ship?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#255 - 2012-07-05 07:35:36 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.


"big lag generator"

lmao where do you guys get these things
Nhi'Khuna
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#256 - 2012-07-05 07:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nhi'Khuna
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.


"big lag generator"

lmao where do you guys get these things


It's from that post that all those alts keep linking too whenever anyone mentions wormholes Roll

Apparently one time CCP said they added the 2sec d-scan spam delay to improve server performance, therefore: D-scan = BIG lag generator

Edit: It's like saying "The government requires hunting licenses to reduce the damage to local wildlife, therefore, deers were going extinct."
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2012-07-05 14:34:01 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.


"big lag generator"

lmao where do you guys get these things



Hey troll,
"CCP Atlas: "There is a new 2 second delay in using the directional scanner. This has been done for server performance reasons."
Ta-Dam
#258 - 2012-07-05 14:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Nhi'Khuna wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.


I'm sure you and the 2 other people spamming D-scan while the solo "SCARY AFK GUY" sits in system won't cause appreciable degredation of system performance. If we're safe in a wormhole with 20+ people spamming D-Scan (with no local when there could be dozens of AFK cloakers without us knowing) while running ops, I'm sure you'll be safe if one guy in a cloaked ship is enough to scare you out of mining. I say 2 people because why else would you be running for the hills when one lone person shows up in local in a cloaky ship?



I'm sure you and everyone will be spamming D-scan within 2 seconds, if you not see the local anymore but need intel from probbes, ships etc.
So, stop your -snip-

Please, no personal attacks.

ISD Tyrozan
Nhi'Khuna
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#259 - 2012-07-05 19:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nhi'Khuna
Ta-Dam wrote:
Nhi'Khuna wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Losvar wrote:
Remove local completely from null sec, and only show people that write in local for low sec.
Would make life a lot harder for macro miners and bots, while making pvp much more interesting imo.


You dont want local ? Go to WH.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1491221#post1491221

We dont want to create a big lag generator, because scanner spamming.


I'm sure you and the 2 other people spamming D-scan while the solo "SCARY AFK GUY" sits in system won't cause appreciable degredation of system performance. If we're safe in a wormhole with 20+ people spamming D-Scan (with no local when there could be dozens of AFK cloakers without us knowing) while running ops, I'm sure you'll be safe if one guy in a cloaked ship is enough to scare you out of mining. I say 2 people because why else would you be running for the hills when one lone person shows up in local in a cloaky ship?



I'm sure you and everyone will be spamming D-scan within 2 seconds, if you not see the local anymore but need intel from probbes, ships etc.
So, stop your stupidity.


We live in wormholes, we have no local, and always spam d-scan every 2 seconds. And with all this, we don't experience "magical big lag generators". That was the contents of my post and don't call me stupid just because you don't understand the English language enough to read my post properly.
Nhi'Khuna
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2012-07-05 19:12:54 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Hey troll,
"CCP Atlas: "There is a new 2 second delay in using the directional scanner. This has been done for server performance reasons."


This =/= d-scan is a big lag generator, read my second to last post for analogy.