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Darwinism Died with Eve? How Space Ship Engineers Never Learned to Adapt - And Stopped Worrying.

Author
seany1212
Drunkendis Order
#21 - 2012-05-05 01:57:32 UTC
Oh look, another one of these threads, oh look, what's worse is it's a alliance member Blink

Show me a decent buffer tanked hulk that's lost to gankers (start with a DC2 Roll)... That's because pretty much everyone mining sticks survey scanners and cargohold expanders/mining upgrades in their respective mids and lows. When I start seeing actual tanked hulks on lossmails to gankers then i'll side with any one of these terrible threads Roll
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#22 - 2012-05-05 01:57:42 UTC
ivar R'dhak wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
I'm curious as to what you think a food chain is.
It begins with plankton or in EvE´s case miner "pond scum". Bear
"Food chainy" enough for you?

And what we have now is not reminiscent of that how?
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#23 - 2012-05-05 02:01:47 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
ivar R'dhak wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
I'm curious as to what you think a food chain is.
It begins with plankton or in EvE´s case miner "pond scum". Bear
"Food chainy" enough for you?

And what we have now is not reminiscent of that how?

And what we have now is reminiscent of that how?
Torneach
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-05-05 02:04:21 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
Oh look, another one of these threads, oh look, what's worse is it's a alliance member Blink

Show me a decent buffer tanked hulk that's lost to gankers (start with a DC2 Roll)... That's because pretty much everyone mining sticks survey scanners and cargohold expanders/mining upgrades in their respective mids and lows. When I start seeing actual tanked hulks on lossmails to gankers then i'll side with any one of these terrible threads Roll


Agreed 100%.

With halfway decent skills, anyone can tank a Hulk extremely well, at the cost of mining output.

But for some reason, that would be just terrible. Roll
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#25 - 2012-05-05 02:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Orca
ivar R'dhak wrote:

And what we have now is reminiscent of that how?


Miners are the bottom of our food chain; they are the producers of our little food chain. With the removal of gun mining, the vast majority of minerals produced comes from them.

Next, one of our primary consumers, if you subscribe to the carebear philosophy that ganking is solely for those who are terrible as "Real PvP", is the ganker. They kill the miners for their modules and maybe some ore.

Thirdly, if you again subscribe that carebear philosophy with the addition of the ideals of Nullsec alliances that lowsec pilots are terrible, are the lowsec pilots, who kill miners and other unprepared people who wander into lowsec. They make up our secondary consumers.

Forth, you have the nullsec alliances. Again, consuming everything below them in the food chain, especially if they wander into their respective nullsec territories. They are our tertiary consumers.

Finally, you have the leet pvpers, who are our apex predators.

EDIT: Then industrialists are our decomposers, who take the remains of all the other trophic levels, and turn them into usable resources.
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#26 - 2012-05-05 02:18:24 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
... blah blah ... words to stroke my epeen


I'd like to see your permission slip allowing pets to post.

Nothing clever at this time.

Emiko Luan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-05-05 02:21:22 UTC
You can already trade tank for yield, Battleships have more tank for less yield. The final result is what matters, not the ORE logo on the side of the ship.

+welcome to my world+ http://emikochan13.wordpress.com http://emikochan13.deviantart.com

Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#28 - 2012-05-05 02:21:55 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:


I'd like to see your permission slip allowing pets to post.

You're just jealous because you have no owner alliance to love and adore you.
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#29 - 2012-05-05 02:23:50 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
Nick Bison wrote:


I'd like to see your permission slip allowing pets to post.

You're just jealous because you have no owner alliance to love and adore you.


Bwaa haa haa ... good one.

Nothing clever at this time.

Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#30 - 2012-05-05 02:27:07 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:

Bwaa haa haa ... good one.


Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-05-05 02:53:21 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
... blah blah ... words to stroke my epeen


I'd like to see your permission slip allowing pets to post.


since when were hisec miners allowed to post

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#32 - 2012-05-05 02:54:27 UTC
If it's more of a challenge why not? Even if a hulk had a BS tank it could be done by small organized groups on the cheap. Make the tanky ship a new ship, and with greater security comes greater cost. You won't get hit by casuals much but you're still a target, as it should be.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.

Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-05-05 03:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sri Nova
Do not see any guns on these


i dont even think this has shields much less a gun


yet again no guns whats with this ?

yet still no guns ...

this ones even in the military and it dont have no guns neither

even the nazi super truck on that page did not have any guns .

even broadening our range and these do not have any guns .. maybe one has a grenade or tear gas launcher but still no guns.


im sure i did not try hard enough but im guessing our current doctrine just does not allow for such creations maybe when al-Qaeda starts attacking our mining vehicles will then have armed mining vehicles . but i would not count on it i dont think they have started equipping sky scrappers with aa guns yet .
Nir Ice
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-05-05 03:37:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nir Ice
Most of that equipment is guarded by humans with guns, or fences, or cops who will put you into jail for many years. You can still shoot at the stuff, bust it, etc.

Concord only does one thing, blow up your ship, that would be the equivalent of the cops taking your car mounted RPG away and busting the whole thing, allowing you to file an insurance claim, and giving you a lecture about shooting huge mining equipment with RPGs. Then doing nothing as you walk into the dealership to buy a new car with an RPG on it.

The point is that the consequences are far less in EvE for a given action then the real world, because in the real world we figured out that if you dont have consequences that line up to the action you just took then you will never get anyplace

If shooting people in space would cause concord to Pod you then ban you from even Jumping into Highsec at the gate, and moving your clone to low sec. Then people might think twice.

O ya, and the cops are corrupt so if your guards with dog who shoot bees from there mouths shoot at the bandit before he shoots first then the cops kill your guards.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-05-05 03:45:52 UTC
The Null Bear only cares about what benfits Null Bear.

The key is to attack something that will force the Null Bear to do what you want or openly admit to being a shameless coward.

So push for the removal of Local. Without Local the absolute safety the Null Bear enjoys in Null Sec goes POOF in an instant.

And in that same instant, the Null Bear will begin whining about how useless the Hulk is. And no, it won't take longer than a second.

You want mining ships buffed?

REMOVE LOCAL.

Local does f**** all for High Sec anyway.

DOWN WITH LOCAL.
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-05 03:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sri Nova
Nir Ice wrote:
Most of that equipment is guarded by humans with guns



to bad we can not do this in eve ..

heck sure would be nice if you could have some one with some kinda shield thingy that kinda likes remote repairs your shields or some thing .

but yeah this whole thread was about lack of consequences for those who gank .
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-05-05 05:23:29 UTC
The game is a game to be fun. The game relies on people adapting rather than releasing new better ships every few months. That is why the game is fun. The game is not realistic and not balanced in a realistic way, rather, it is balanced in a way to make it interesting and enjoyable.

Ferox #1

Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#38 - 2012-05-05 10:18:25 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
Oh look, another one of these threads, oh look, what's worse is it's a alliance member Blink

Show me a decent buffer tanked hulk that's lost to gankers (start with a DC2 Roll)... That's because pretty much everyone mining sticks survey scanners and cargohold expanders/mining upgrades in their respective mids and lows. When I start seeing actual tanked hulks on lossmails to gankers then i'll side with any one of these terrible threads Roll


Yeah, I am not surprised we disagree here but I'd still turn it around.

Maybe there is a reason why you have not seen any decently tanked hulks? Because the can't...
Every now and then people find a new way to try it, and they fail too.

It is not really about adapting ship fits, more that current ship designs does not allow for tactical game play.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-05 10:39:07 UTC
The answer to your question is the Covetor. Reduced mining yield in exchange for reduced losses in the event of attack.
seany1212
Drunkendis Order
#40 - 2012-05-05 10:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: seany1212
Archdaimon wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Oh look, another one of these threads, oh look, what's worse is it's a alliance member Blink

Show me a decent buffer tanked hulk that's lost to gankers (start with a DC2 Roll)... That's because pretty much everyone mining sticks survey scanners and cargohold expanders/mining upgrades in their respective mids and lows. When I start seeing actual tanked hulks on lossmails to gankers then i'll side with any one of these terrible threads Roll


Yeah, I am not surprised we disagree here but I'd still turn it around.

Maybe there is a reason why you have not seen any decently tanked hulks? Because the can't...
Every now and then people find a new way to try it, and they fail too.

It is not really about adapting ship fits, more that current ship designs does not allow for tactical game play.



INB4someone links 27+k ehp hulk tank...

EDIT: I'll do it myself since i've been in these threads more time than I can count:

[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Small Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Survey Scanner II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Pyroxeres Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Pyroxeres Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Pyroxeres Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5
Warrior II x5

just over 22K ehp before boosts (you can use those orcas for more than mining boosts you know Roll)

courtesy of baltec1 from this thread just 2 weeks ago


EDIT EDIT: you can even squeeze in a MSE if you dropped out the mining upgrade for an auxiliary core making it 26k ehp before boosts, but HEAVEN FORBID WE SHOULD REDUCE A MINERS YIELD Shocked