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Basilisk cap stable issue with logi V.
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SpaceSquirrels
#1 - 2011-09-15 02:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSquirrels
So I trained logi V and according to the fitting menu i get 20s w/ everything.

I have this exact fit minus a different ab fit to it.

[Basilisk, Incursion Support]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II

Large ‘Regard’ I Power Projector
Large ‘Regard’ I Power Projector
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5

All cap skills, and emissions skills are at 4. No cap or logi implants, but according to BC and the guide with logi V I should be ok. I run the support mods and AB and even have cap issues stable == 54%

Is this correct or is something amiss?
Thanks for the help.
Skarned
Inroads
#2 - 2011-09-15 02:17:02 UTC
That sounds about right. Yes, Logi 5 is that important.
SpaceSquirrels
#3 - 2011-09-15 02:19:18 UTC
So even with logi 5 (Which I have in case i forgot to mention that) not cap stable with that fit?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2011-09-15 02:27:15 UTC
Basis won't be cap stable straight up. Basis are assumed to have cap transfers coming in to keep them high on cap (that's what your cap transfers are for too, to trade back and forth with your cap partner(s)). If you have Logi 5, that fit will be cap stable with one Large 'Reguard' cap transfer on you.

In EFT open up the Projected Effects at the bottom of the fit and drag one of your cap transfers in to it to simulate an incoming cap transfer and see how your cap is then.
beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2011-09-15 09:55:11 UTC
Basi and Guardian are designed to be used in pairs or three's; Scimi's and Onerios's don't need to have a cap transfer on them to work. It's a trade off; Basi's and Guardians tend to be heavier tanked but slower, where as the other two are more mobile but less of a tank.

With Logi 5 you should be able to run with just one cap x-fer on you and either give you one spare to put on ships which use a lot of cap. Otherwise you can drop the second cap x-fer and put another rep on so you can rep more. This opens you up to being neuted but it increases your rep power. Rather situational.

Try these set-ups:

[Basilisk, Incursion]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

10MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5

[Basilisk, Incursion 2]
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II

10MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5

The second one has more EHP but a slightly bigger sig radius which in theory will mean you will take slightly more damage when you get targeted, but only slightly. It will also give your partner more cap per cycle but the difference isn't huge.
Aamrr
#6 - 2011-09-15 10:40:09 UTC
As a Logistics V pilot, you now get to choose whether you want to bring two energy transfer modules. What you'll find is that this isn't just a question of free capacitor or neut resistance. It also has a fairly significant effect on your available fitting resources -- and all four of the logistics have serious fitting issues. Most of the time you'll be constrained by at least 2/3 of your PG/Cap/CPU.

Basilisks aren't impacted quite as significantly, since shield transporters and energy transfers use the same powergrid. Here's a pair of guardian fittings that illustrate what I mean, instead:

4-2 wrote:
[Guardian, 4-2]

2x Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
2x Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener
Armor EM Hardener II
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

2x Medium Ancillary Current Router I


1600mm plates are a necessary but painful part of fitting Guardians, and the resulting PG/CPU-pressure places significant constraints on your ability to fill out your high slots. As you can see, this fitting downgrades one of the large reps to a medium to allow it, but makes up for it by upgrading two of its large reps to T2. A faction hardener and deadspace plating were necessary to get enough CPU for this. Powergrid comes from the rigs.

5-1 wrote:
[Guardian, 5-1]

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
2x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
2x Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

By dropping an energy transfer for a medium rep, this Guardian frees up enough powergrid to lose its second ancillary current router. While it could have been used to accommodate a large rep instead, consider that any circumstance where that kind of repair is necessary will almost certainly be a threat to the Guardian's survival as well -- and in this situation, the added armor buffer is necessary to counter the danger posed by alpha-strikes. The leftover CPU also allows us to exchange the deadspace plating for a cheaper and more effective energized membrane.

Notice how it's not necessarily a question of rep strength. In these examples, I've illustrated how the energy transfer can be exchanged for survivability. In this case, neut-resistance was traded for alpha-resistance.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2011-09-15 10:42:00 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
So I trained logi V and according to the fitting menu i get 20s w/ everything.

I have this exact fit minus a different ab fit to it.

[Basilisk, Incursion Support]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II

Large ‘Regard’ I Power Projector
Large ‘Regard’ I Power Projector
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5

All cap skills, and emissions skills are at 4. No cap or logi implants, but according to BC and the guide with logi V I should be ok. I run the support mods and AB and even have cap issues stable == 54%

Is this correct or is something amiss?
Thanks for the help.


May I suggest using light armour rep bots rather than shield bots? Otherwise you'll have no way to repair any damage that leaks through.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Fabulous Virgil
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-15 11:18:05 UTC
Your fit is for fleets, you set up a chain with annother Basilisk. If you're the only logistics in the gang then you'd rather be in a Scimitar.
Aamrr
#9 - 2011-09-15 11:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
I'll second Malcanis's suggestion on the armor repair bots. You shouldn't need them, but you shouldn't need the shield repair bots, either, and I've gotten a lot more mileage out of armor repair than anything the shield bots have ever done -- bonused or otherwise.

You could also swap the PDS for a T2 RCU. This will give you enough PG to swap one of your ACRs for a CDFE. You'll lose 5% shield HP from the PDS, but will gain 15% from the CDFE -- a net 10% gain. It does require EGU 5, however.

PDS = Power Diagnostic System
RCU = Reactor Control Unit
PG = Powergrid
ACR = Ancillary Current Router
CDFE = Core Defence Field Extender
EGU = Energy Grid Upgrades

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
Your fit is for fleets, you set up a chain with annother Basilisk. If you're the only logistics in the gang then you'd rather be in a Scimitar.

This really isn't as much an issue as people claim. Tons of ships have free utility high slots, and most pilots will be more than happy to trade an energy transfer with you. You just have to stay within 9000 meters of them. No big deal, just set orbit and you're good to go.
Fabulous Virgil
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-15 11:33:20 UTC
Because i'm 100% positive that the only Logistics in gang wants to sit at 0 just to get some capacitor.
Aamrr
#11 - 2011-09-15 11:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
Well, as far as incursions are concerned, you're never going to be the "only logistics." There will always at least be a scimitar there. The point is that you don't need a second basilisk to generate capacitor. Anyone with a utility high is more than capable.

Edit: If you've switched discussion to PvP, then yes, it's conceivable that you might be the only logistics on field, and you will want to be in a scimitar then. Hardly relevant to the current line of discussion, though.
SpaceSquirrels
#12 - 2011-09-15 12:22:07 UTC
Hmm I see. I was under the impression that the t2 incursion fit was cap stable at V (And therefore rather shocked).
Perhaps I read it wrong.
Aamrr
#13 - 2011-09-15 12:29:06 UTC
It is stable. It just needs to trade cap transfers with another ship.

Run all the modules and project a large energy transfer on it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2011-09-15 13:51:51 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
So I trained logi V and according to the fitting menu i get 20s w/ everything.
If this is what's worrying you, then remember that the fitting screen does not take into account the cap you're meant to be given by other people in your cap/rep chain.

Reality will differ because you'll be given far more cap from external sources than the fitting screen assumes you'll get just on your own.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#15 - 2011-09-15 15:24:48 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
As a Logistics V pilot, you now get to choose whether you want to bring two energy transfer modules


Not really, if you're running incursions you have to assume that the other Basis in your fleet will have Logi 4 (because most do), in which case they will need both energy transfers on them. So you still always will end up running with 4 RR and 2 X-Fers if you're joining public incursion fleets. Now, if you know that you're going to be running with another Basi with Logi 5, then you can decide to switch out the second X-Fer, but I'd suggest checking it with them and the rest of your fleet first. If there are some cap-hungry ships in your fleet, you might want to keep the X-Fer anyways.

Also, it's generally best to stick with Meta 4 X-Fers in public fleets, most Basis are running Meta 4 (either for skills or fitting reasons) and T2 will make the cap transfer unbalanced (you're sending 351 cap and getting 324). As with before, if you're in a fleet with people you know, talk it over with your cap-buddies.
SpaceSquirrels
#16 - 2011-09-15 16:36:46 UTC
Alright good to know. Guess I just didnt understand the phrasing on the incursion fitting site.

Thanks for the help.
Fighter26
Orion's Fist
#17 - 2011-09-17 03:30:16 UTC
Fabulous Virgil wrote:
Your fit is for fleets, you set up a chain with annother Basilisk. If you're the only logistics in the gang then you'd rather be in a Scimitar.


What this man said. Hell you can have both (one scimmie for skirmishes and a basi for fleets) but what would work better would be one armor and one shield logi, useually the pair people choose is Guardian and Scimmie (skimmie works well in nano gangs.) Lucky for you logi 5 can work on all races so the main problem you have is tank skills and another cruiser V. Good luck
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-09-17 06:00:53 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
As a Logistics V pilot, you now get to choose whether you want to bring two energy transfer modules.


Actually it's the Logi IV dude who gets to choose Straight
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-09-17 13:37:50 UTC
the xfer skills at 5 also helps a bit.

it's a 5% extra you shave off from consumption after all.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Aamrr
#20 - 2011-09-17 13:42:07 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
As a Logistics V pilot, you now get to choose whether you want to bring two energy transfer modules.


Actually it's the Logi IV dude who gets to choose Straight


Oh, FFS. Does everyone here have to quibble? The implication was that as a logi 5 pilot, you'd get the luxury of flying with other logi 5 pilots. At which point you both get to fit one transfer.

I really can't get a break here, can I?
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