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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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No more learning implants!
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Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-05-05 11:54:36 UTC
I agree with OP.
Whitehound
#142 - 2012-05-05 12:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
It is the entire learning skills debate all over again...

Now people demand to remove attribute implants and soon thereafter they want skill ranks removed, and then they want the training itself removed but buy skills with ISKs.

CCP should never have removed learning skills. It is the fault of the stupid pre-Incarna period of CCP. And why did this all happen? Because we allowed lazy asses and free loaders into the game by selling game time for ISKs and we listen to their demands.

TL;DR: Where is my pizza for ISKs? Logic demands pizza!

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#143 - 2012-05-05 13:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Ryshar wrote:
Learning implants are not evil or unfair. However, they are unnecessary and they give new pilots a bad first taste of EVE. Why bad? Well, new pilots immediately find out that getting into the ships they want to fly takes time. The learning implants reduce that time, and newbies will focus on getting those implants as soon as possible once they find out about them. However, they are relatively expensive for a new player and after they plug in the implants, they don't want to lose them.

For a beginner, those implants represent more than just the gametime they spent to get them. They mined or ran missions for days to get them, and to lose them would not only set them back tens of millions of ISK, it would gimp their character progression. After a new players gets these implants in his head, he becomes extremely risk averse. The idea of being podded is pretty scary to a newbie when he's carrying so much in his head.

After having learned this new behavior, a new pilot is much more likely to avoid going into lowsec or nullsec. This is generally bad for EVE. Aside from the obvious implications this has on new player experiences (they get really bored saving the damsel and killing Kruul and quit), this is not good for the EVE market. PvP is an ISK sink, and ships getting blown up creates demand for new ships.

I'm not saying that getting rid of learning implants is THE solution to getting more hisec bears out of their shells, but it would help new players be less risk-averse. Not everyone likes to PvP, but the way things are now, I don't think newbies are being given a fair chance to try it.


anyone else think there were gonna be learning implants on the NeX if ppl hadnt bitched? Those things look like a pay to win item

Whitehound wrote:
It is the entire learning skills debate all over again...

Now people demand to remove attribute implants and soon thereafter they want skill ranks removed, and then they want the training itself removed but buy skills with ISKs.

CCP should never have removed learning skills. It is the fault of the stupid pre-Incarna period of CCP. And why did this all happen? Because we allowed lazy asses and free loaders into the game by selling game time for ISKs and we listen to their demands.

TL;DR: Where is my pizza for ISKs? Logic demands pizza!


wait... what? before PLEX it was gtc or are you including those too?

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2012-05-05 13:23:38 UTC
For once I agree with you, Sigurd

Hello, hello again.
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2012-05-05 13:25:36 UTC
I think you should all harden up, I lose +3/+4 clones regularly
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-05-05 13:29:23 UTC
adopt wrote:
I think you should all harden up, I lose +3/+4 clones regularly


Compelling gameplay to lose training time?

Cool story

Hello, hello again.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2012-05-05 15:50:13 UTC
On a related point, CCP Soundwave thinks the system where veterans sometimes pay more for their clone than their ship is a bit out of whack, and could use an adjustment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pLi1J9YrkM&feature=g-user-u 29 minutes in

And we all know what happens when he mentions something off-hand.
stoicfaux
#148 - 2012-05-05 16:06:25 UTC
Move implants from the LP store to the manufacturing side of the sandbox.

One of the problems with items in the LP store is the artificial price floor. If we remove that price floor, we could potentially see learning implants drop in price to a level low enough that people no longer worry about losing their learning implants.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2012-05-05 16:07:16 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
buy skills with ISKs.


You can already do this through character transfers
Whitehound
#150 - 2012-05-05 16:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
buy skills with ISKs.


You can already do this through character transfers

No, it only seems that way. You can only buy characters, but you do not have a direct choice on which particular skill you add to a character.

It really is the same whine as before. If CCP Soundwave falls for this crap again will I demand that he gets fired, and I do not care if he is only the messenger for corporate idiocy. He should refuse to stand up for such nonsense.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-05-05 16:31:12 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
It really is the same whine as before. If CCP Soundwave falls for this crap again will I demand that he gets fired, and I do not care if he is only the messenger for corporate idiocy. He should refuse to stand up for such nonsense.


yeah you totally make that call

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Neemoy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2012-05-05 16:50:20 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
No just don't use them if you don't want too.

I have yet to use +5 in any of my characters I use +3' cause they are cheap and easy to replace.

Saying your not going to PvP because of your implants is just an excuse.

Especially for a high-sec mission runner who will have access to jump clones.
Or a 0.0 dweller who will have jump clones.

Getting rid of implants will serve no purpose cause those who don't want to PvP will just find another excuse.

Besides why would you want to reduce your choices in game ?


You are wrong.

Implants is the main cause I don't do more pvp. I've lived in both 0.0 and W-space but I've never gone looking for a fight. I don't mind losing isk, but losing implants means losing training time I can never get back... an I'm pretty anal about my training time.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#153 - 2012-05-05 16:54:13 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Alpheias wrote:


Cute straw man. The amount of SP that a character has nothing to do with "combat ability", the experience that a player possess is everything.

I am surprised that someone like you, hiding in a NPC corp even after two years even dares mention risk.


Don't be an idiot. If you think that taking a veteran player with a 100m SP character and making him switch to a 2m SP character wouldn't decrease his combat ability you're delusional. There's probably a point where extra SP stops being effective, sure, and that'd be an argument in favour of capping medclone costs but not much else.

Being in an NPC corp is just a case of enjoying the chat, not wanting to join an actual corp, and not being particularly keen on being wardecced. I pick and choose when and where I want to take risks.


I could be wrong here, but I am guessing that combat ability basically is your access to ships and not actual PVP experience? If that is the case, no, that is not what I meant. If you specialize and know how to properly train a character then 10-20m sp would be more than plenty, anything after that is either skill polish or crosstraining.

So what you are saying then is that your character is just an alt, enjoying the risk free life of hi-sec in New Eden with his head full of learning implants. Hypocrite.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Lexmana
#154 - 2012-05-05 16:54:53 UTC
Neemoy wrote:
I'm pretty anal about my training time.

That is your problem. Not the implants.
Neemoy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2012-05-05 16:58:26 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Neemoy wrote:
I'm pretty anal about my training time.

That is your problem. Not the implants.


Oh I am sorry, I thought the prospect of a more lively lowsec was a good thing.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-05-05 17:00:43 UTC
learning skills - removed
agent quality - removed

now:
learning implants - will be removed

next:
let's remove skills and ISK totally. After all skills and ISK make access to shiny ships and stuff harder for new players. Why deny PVE/deadspace stuff/PVP for new player just because he is new and poor?


I FULLY SUPPORT OP's IDEA Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Sunviking
Doomheim
#157 - 2012-05-05 17:02:16 UTC
Keep learning implants.

I have enough ISK not to care about losing my +5s.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2012-05-05 17:02:37 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
learning skills - removed
agent quality - removed

now:
learning implants - will be removed

next:
let's remove skills and ISK totally. After all skills and ISK make access to shiny ships and stuff harder for new players. Why deny PVE/deadspace stuff/PVP for new player just because he is new and poor?


I FULLY SUPPORT OP's IDEA Cool


I got a better idea, remove the players.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Lexmana
#159 - 2012-05-05 17:03:23 UTC
Neemoy wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Neemoy wrote:
I'm pretty anal about my training time.

That is your problem. Not the implants.


Oh I am sorry, I thought the prospect of a more lively lowsec was a good thing.

There are other ways to do that. For example, give every character a buff of +3 to all attributes while in low/null.
Whitehound
#160 - 2012-05-05 17:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Lexmana wrote:
Neemoy wrote:
I'm pretty anal about my training time.

That is your problem. Not the implants.

Yeah, do we now listen to players who are anal or what? Wtf!!

First they want others to pay for the gameplay for free, then they want faster learninglearning skills removed, then they want to get out of shipswalk in a station, now they want more faster learningattribute implants removed. Shocked

When the hell do they start to pick up the f'cking fight???Impossible.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.