These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Incursion changes

First post
Author
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2012-05-09 13:19:40 UTC
xxanjoahir wrote:
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:

I have surmised that you're just and idiot Everything that you've posted in since the beginning of the year, you haven't backed up any of your claims with proof of any kind. And you've done nothing but **** on the CFC every chance you got. so.. good job.

You're probably trolling me, but you just keep making yourself look like more of an idiot, every time you post. if you need proof just search his name on the forum search and take a few minutes to read.. I am done with you xxanjoahir have a good day..

PS : Mechanically jump freighter runs are group activity, because a jump freighter can't jump to a system without either Cyno which requires a second character, or a beacon which you're an absolute idiot if you're 6 billion unarmed ship without seeing if it's clear, which again requires a second character. .. so fail again.


Now im a troll becuase i disagree with your BS posts?

keep going dude - i find your "proof" so diluted that your making quite a simple way of playing eve seem so HUMONGOUSLY HARD.... I've shown you the fit i use to sit in sanctums and havens and other plexes and complete sites with no risk what so ever.

your just talking the same **** that everyone null sec cry baby is saying and if your not happy with the way null sec is played go play Counter-strike. LolLol

PS: Laughing at you from the system you reside in watching you station spin oh and OOOOOOOPS LOL - what happened there bot disengaged did it? Now i know why you bit when i told you a 200m ship could tank quite easily Sanctum and Havens.



Say's the person who linked a fitting that does not concern the 99.9% of this thread.

So, Yes.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#282 - 2012-05-09 13:21:29 UTC
Dinger wrote:

The thing that makes me laugh at this is that for the most part the high seccers have accepted the "natural balance of the game" namely that reward does follow security ratings and that in fact high sec rewards are not as good as the rest of the game.

For this specific issue incursions outside of highsec pay 42% more ISK and LP than those inside, that is the bonus for taking the extra risks inherent to running incursions outside of highsec, that highseccers choose not to take that extra risk and gain the extra rewards is their choice, and they're happy with it, it's when various elements outside of highsec attempt to overrule that choice based off of the quaint notion that the highseccers somehow aren't playing Eve that they get annoyed and rightly so.


Pretty much (but not really). I don't care how people play "their eve". If a guy wants to make isk all day so he can suicide carriers in null sec all night, more power to him.

I dislike "entitlement" players who want to "have their cake (ie the protections of high sec, which while not absolute are extensive) and eat it too (ie making incomes from shooting npcs that should only be available outside of high sec). Level 4 missions should imo be the highest level of income a high sec only player shold have access too, because this game's economy runs on consumption and ships dying is a main driver of this.

You can't just look at incursions and say "well, high sec incursions are balanced with other incursions, incursions as an (NPC shooting) isk making mechanism must be balanced with all npc shooting isk making mechanisms including low and null incursions. Before the current nerf, they weren't. Simply, it's not fair that a guy in empire could make the same isk I make in null sec when I have to stop what I'm doing to defend my space. Now at least it's a bit better, but if it were up to me, high sec incursions would either cease to exist and be brought to lvl 4 missiopn income or below.

High Sec incursions (even post nerf) are like me being able to scan down a 10/10 in Jita, would be great for me, but wrong for the game.
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#283 - 2012-05-09 13:25:15 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:
xxanjoahir wrote:
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:

I have surmised that you're just and idiot Everything that you've posted in since the beginning of the year, you haven't backed up any of your claims with proof of any kind. And you've done nothing but **** on the CFC every chance you got. so.. good job.

You're probably trolling me, but you just keep making yourself look like more of an idiot, every time you post. if you need proof just search his name on the forum search and take a few minutes to read.. I am done with you xxanjoahir have a good day..

PS : Mechanically jump freighter runs are group activity, because a jump freighter can't jump to a system without either Cyno which requires a second character, or a beacon which you're an absolute idiot if you're 6 billion unarmed ship without seeing if it's clear, which again requires a second character. .. so fail again.


Now im a troll becuase i disagree with your BS posts?

keep going dude - i find your "proof" so diluted that your making quite a simple way of playing eve seem so HUMONGOUSLY HARD.... I've shown you the fit i use to sit in sanctums and havens and other plexes and complete sites with no risk what so ever.

your just talking the same **** that everyone null sec cry baby is saying and if your not happy with the way null sec is played go play Counter-strike. LolLol

PS: Laughing at you from the system you reside in watching you station spin oh and OOOOOOOPS LOL - what happened there bot disengaged did it? Now i know why you bit when i told you a 200m ship could tank quite easily Sanctum and Havens.



Say's the person who linked a fitting that does not concern the 99.9% of this thread.

So, Yes.


That thing in your right hand (apart from your ****) its called a mouse - scroll up little boy I assume you can read the previous posts to this discussion.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#284 - 2012-05-09 13:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Herr Ronin wrote:


Let me repeat myself, Just for you cause you are cute, EVE Online is to be played by that person how he play's it, I find it funny that you look at people differently cause they bear in High Sec, It is totally up to them.

You must be another 0.0? HTFU.

I love you really.


You find it funny that I (someone who makes his isk in null sec and WHs, who accepts the risk that comes with the profits) would look "differently" at people who (at least before the nerf) some make comparable isk/hr as I am while under the protection of this game's automated police force?

You mean you can't understand the unfairness of that? Why go to risky space to make isk when you can do less risky high sec incusions? The "less risky" part is that no one can kill you unless they stop repping you or they suicide you or something.

Again, I don't care how other people play as long as they understand the natural balance of the game and don't complain about it. When i live din high sec and did nothing but ran missions, I don't for a momemnt think I was supposed to be making the same isk and people out in null sec.

Part of that is accepting the idea that potential individual income in safer space must be generally greatly lower than potential individual income in less safe space. High Sec incursions were (and still are) counter to this nessacary balance.

In fact, High Sec incursions are as close to theme park "Raiding" content as anything even concieved of in eve. What's next, instanced pvp and pve?
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2012-05-09 14:01:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:


Let me repeat myself, Just for you cause you are cute, EVE Online is to be played by that person how he play's it, I find it funny that you look at people differently cause they bear in High Sec, It is totally up to them.

You must be another 0.0? HTFU.

I love you really.


You find it funny that I (someone who makes his isk in null sec and WHs, who accepts the risk that comes with the profits) would look "differently" at people who (at least before the nerf) some make comparable isk/hr as I am while under the protection of this game's automated police force?

You mean you can't understand the unfairness of that? Why go to risky space to make isk when you can do less risky high sec incusions? The "less risky" part is that no one can kill you unless they stop repping you or they suicide you or something.

Again, I don't care how other people play as long as they understand the natural balance of the game and don't complain about it. When i live din high sec and did nothing but ran missions, I don't for a momemnt think I was supposed to be making the same isk and people out in null sec.

Part of that is accepting the idea that potential individual income in safer space must be generally greatly lower than potential individual income in less safe space. High Sec incursions were (and still are) counter to this nessacary balance.

In fact, High Sec incursions are as close to theme park "Raiding" content as anything even concieved of in eve. What's next, instanced pvp and pve?



I cannot even be bothered to read your rage.

I think you need to use Bloodrage to get rid of that problem.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#286 - 2012-05-09 15:04:33 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:


I cannot even be bothered to read your rage.

I think you need to use Bloodrage to get rid of that problem.


Rofl, I had to look up bloodrage, the fact that you'd use a referecne from a theme park game speaks volumes lol.

I get it, you and your type are trying to maintain something in the game that you see as lucrative (Incursion SHINY network indeed), but I think if you could be objective, you'd see that this thing that you like to do is, actually, bad for the game we are all playing.

I plex in null sec, you "shiny ship/fit" people are a very good market for the a-type and x-type loot I get, if I (like you people) were to stick to my own simple, narrow interests, I'd be all for high sec incursion isk printing. But Im just not one of those who believes "good for my wallet equals good period", there is a big picture that has to be recognized.

The big picture is that safer space should be hard to make "pew pew" money in, wheter it's incursions, exploration or missions. This last "nerf" was a good start, but CCP needs to do more to encourage people to look to more risky space for their fun. Because it's in that space, NOT high sec, that eve history (the history CCP markets in their big fleet fight videos) is made.
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2012-05-09 21:19:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:


I cannot even be bothered to read your rage.

I think you need to use Bloodrage to get rid of that problem.


Rofl, I had to look up bloodrage, the fact that you'd use a referecne from a theme park game speaks volumes lol.

I get it, you and your type are trying to maintain something in the game that you see as lucrative (Incursion SHINY network indeed), but I think if you could be objective, you'd see that this thing that you like to do is, actually, bad for the game we are all playing.

I plex in null sec, you "shiny ship/fit" people are a very good market for the a-type and x-type loot I get, if I (like you people) were to stick to my own simple, narrow interests, I'd be all for high sec incursion isk printing. But Im just not one of those who believes "good for my wallet equals good period", there is a big picture that has to be recognized.

The big picture is that safer space should be hard to make "pew pew" money in, wheter it's incursions, exploration or missions. This last "nerf" was a good start, but CCP needs to do more to encourage people to look to more risky space for their fun. Because it's in that space, NOT high sec, that eve history (the history CCP markets in their big fleet fight videos) is made.



This is why i am not that bothered about the change's in the recent patch, However, There is still room for improvement, I do agree with you that it should be made harder in high sec cause you have called NPC corps plus nobody is trying to Hotdrop you, CCP need to bring a balance to this, So far i am making around 80 million per hour in Vanguards.

I don't mind this cause i have took into consideration on how easy it was pre patch, CCP are trying to burn out Blitzing, They have done well with that, EVE Online should not be a game that is easy.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#288 - 2012-05-12 11:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

We're looking into the Incursions right now. Our changes had varying degrees of success and this is my view on it currently:

Making NPC groups dynamic and stopping blitzing works as intended for Vanguards. I'm considering reversing the 10% income change, to increase their value slightly again.

For assaults, I think the NPC groups work fine as well, but the difficulty might have gotten a little too high.

Comments?


Hey CCP Sound wave instead of thowing a single person ( CCP Affinity ) under the bus to try to handle the Incursion community backlash how about putting more resources on it? If not just end the Sansha Incursions. Start another Incursion later. I know you like to have everything open ended but it'd been better to test a real endgame PvE say have at least tried to have Sansha gives up after a big lo/NULL/LO sec incursion final site & later a new pirate Incursion (or maybe say of Jove, sleepers or drones incursion after they stopped pooping alloys to help with the mineral supply shock ) replaces it in a later date would have been 1000% better then the lingering death Incursion communitites are suffering thru now sorta like what happened with FW.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2012-05-12 15:15:25 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

We're looking into the Incursions right now. Our changes had varying degrees of success and this is my view on it currently:

Making NPC groups dynamic and stopping blitzing works as intended for Vanguards. I'm considering reversing the 10% income change, to increase their value slightly again.

For assaults, I think the NPC groups work fine as well, but the difficulty might have gotten a little too high.

Comments?


Hey CCP Sound wave instead of thowing a single person ( CCP Affinity ) under the bus to try to handle the Incursion community backlash how about putting more resources on it? If not just end the Sansha Incursions. Start another Incursion later. I know you like to have everything open ended but it'd been better to test a real endgame PvE say have at least tried to have Sansha gives up after a big lo/NULL/LO sec incursion final site & later a new pirate Incursion (or maybe say of Jove, sleepers or drones incursion after they stopped pooping alloys to help with the mineral supply shock ) replaces it in a later date would have been 1000% better then the lingering death Incursion communitites are suffering thru now sorta like what happened with FW.



Stop crying in every Incursion thread.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#290 - 2012-05-12 16:00:23 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

We're looking into the Incursions right now. Our changes had varying degrees of success and this is my view on it currently:

Making NPC groups dynamic and stopping blitzing works as intended for Vanguards. I'm considering reversing the 10% income change, to increase their value slightly again.

For assaults, I think the NPC groups work fine as well, but the difficulty might have gotten a little too high.

Comments?


Hey CCP Sound wave instead of thowing a single person ( CCP Affinity ) under the bus to try to handle the Incursion community backlash how about putting more resources on it? If not just end the Sansha Incursions. Start another Incursion later. I know you like to have everything open ended but it'd been better to test a real endgame PvE say have at least tried to have Sansha gives up after a big lo/NULL/LO sec incursion final site & later a new pirate Incursion (or maybe say of Jove, sleepers or drones incursion after they stopped pooping alloys to help with the mineral supply shock ) replaces it in a later date would have been 1000% better then the lingering death Incursion communitites are suffering thru now sorta like what happened with FW.



Stop crying in every Incursion thread.


leave the guy alone, that's the only thing he's good at
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#291 - 2012-05-12 17:13:14 UTC
God damn it I'm agreeing with you.
Doc Flatline
Genesis Rangers
#292 - 2012-05-12 21:27:16 UTC
***Please Read This***


Dear CCP Soundwave,


I think that CCP has actually misdiagnosed the true problem. As a result of this, you’ve dispensed the wrong medicine, resulting in punishing all incursion runners versus handling the real issue. While incursions do provide a money faucet, which is actually a good thing, the actual problem goes deeper than that. The problem is not the time it takes to complete an incursion, the nonsense of risk versus reward, or even the payout involved, for doing incursions. If all incursion runners only ran incursions for a couple hours a week, even as they were before the nerf, it would not have such a negative effect on the in game economy.

The true problem lays within certain elements of the player base itself. In this I mean people that sit in front of their computers for an inordinate number of hours, day in and day out. I’m talking about people who run incursions sites nonstop to the point that they could be diagnosed as suffering from the physiological disorder of video game addiction. This type of person ends up generating so much disposable income that they end up disrupting the in game economy. What you need to do is not punish the little guy, but rather institute some level of moderation on these fat little piggys by weaning them off the isk teat.

I would propose going back to the old payout amount with a gradual decline in payouts for completed sites. For example say the first 10 incursions you do in a day, get 100% pay out. The second ten you do drop down to 90% and then an additional 10% reduction in pay for every ten sites you run after that. At a certain point the person running incursions is going to say this is no longer worth my time and go do something else, while giving others with less free time on their hands a fair chance.

It goes without saying that players like myself have real live responsibilities during the week that don’t allow us to play the game like it’s a second job or a substitute for a real life. We should not be punished for the over indulgences of others. When I log in I need to make a good amount of isk in a fair amount of time so I can go do the things I want to do in game. Otherwise I’m not having fun and the game ceases to hold value for people like myself.

I think one of the best things CCP did with this game, is make it so that some guy with nothing better to do, can’t just come in and go from level 1-80 in a week. As a player I can just set my training que and walk away from the game while my character continues to progress. By doing this you created a level of balance that I think has kept the veteran player base around and loyal. I think if you think about it the incursion issue is the same problem all over again, just with a different face.
Dinger
Task Force Delta-14
#293 - 2012-05-12 22:31:39 UTC
Doc Flatline wrote:

Idea


While I like the idea of somehow limiting the payouts, I don't see the logic in this method, why would CONCORD actively discourage people from fighting the Sansha threat as time goes by by reducing their payouts?

Would it perhaps be better to curtail the ability of even those people you describe to farm the incursions by simply removing the ability to farm them end of.

Suppose the influence bar was a one way affair, maybe removing lower tier sites as the Sansha's influence wanes and removing them all when the mothership enters the fray.

If the incursions were over in a matter of hours as opposed to days farming wouldn't be an issue, even the "addicted" runners would not be able to be involved in them as often as travel times would make it unviable to constantly cross the empires chasing them.
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#294 - 2012-05-12 23:12:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Herr Ronin]


The big picture is that safer space should be hard to make "pew pew" money in, wheter it's incursions, exploration or missions. This last "nerf" was a good start, but CCP needs to do more to encourage people to look to more risky space for their fun. Because it's in that space, NOT high sec, that eve history (the history CCP markets in their big fleet fight videos) is made.


What you wrote it's true.

However the best mmos have pvp AND pve.

Atm eve only really has pvp, pve is what you do to afford pvp, just a few loonies actually have fun doing pve (even high end fleet pve).

Incursions could be the start for ccp to add actual pve content to the game.

So eve would change, not fewer chances to pvp, just more choices of good pve.

Some people would say that it'd be the end of eve; but i'm not advocating increasing concord time or changing pvp mechanics, i'm just saying: give some kind of end game for pve oriented people.

For example DED complexes and faction spawns could be removed: incursions (and other pve "dungeons" of increasing dfficulty) would drop high end modules of some kind, all others "high end" modules would come from productions and the items needed to produce them would come from ships destroyed in pvp.
A salvaged archon would give material to build an x type armor rep or 2 hardeners etc.

This is just to show a point, there would surely be better ways to implement this.

However adding content is never a bad thing (if it is good content that doesnt ruin the game ofc.)
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#295 - 2012-05-12 23:38:50 UTC
Just Alter wrote:

However the best mmos have pvp AND pve.

Atm eve only really has pvp, pve is what you do to afford pvp, just a few loonies actually have fun doing pve (even high end fleet pve).

Incursions could be the start for ccp to add actual pve content to the game.

So eve would change, not fewer chances to pvp, just more choices of good pve.



Name these "Best MMOs"? Are any of them Sandbox MMOs built around player conflict?

Every Sandbox MMORPG I have ever played has PvP and PvE in the same sphere of gameplay. The idea of having PvE completely isolated from PvP is a Themepark MMO concept. Further more if the rewards of that PvE which is separated from from PvP, can then be used in anyway in the larger PvP environment you have effectively broken a game like EVE.
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#296 - 2012-05-13 00:19:10 UTC
Xorv wrote:


Every Sandbox MMORPG I have ever played has PvP and PvE in the same sphere of gameplay. The idea of having PvE completely isolated from PvP is a Themepark MMO concept. Further more if the rewards of that PvE which is separated from from PvP, can then be used in anyway in the larger PvP environment you have effectively broken a game like EVE.



Quote:
completely isolated from PvP


Never said that.

Quote:
Further more if the rewards of that PvE which is separated from from PvP, can then be used in anyway in the larger PvP environment you have effectively broken a game like EVE


But that's the way it is right now.
The rewards you get from pve (isk and items from incursions/missions/exploration/rp farming/hauling/industry etc) are directly used in pvp.

Have you read my post at all?

I'm just proposing improving and changing how eve pve is arranged, not the overall game mechanics and the effects of pve on pvp.

I know a lot of people that plays eve dont just love pvp, they also hate pve so this is a tough subject to talk about but it's worth it.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#297 - 2012-05-13 01:21:13 UTC
Just Alter wrote:

Quote:
completely isolated from PvP


Never said that.


So you would get behind the idea of expanding High Sec Incursions by giving players a way to side with the Sansha and play against those players trying to stop (or rather farm) the Incursion?

You still haven't told us what MMOs you're referring when you said "the best MMOs have PvP AND PvE" Name them! Might help us understand where you're coming from and where you're trying to take us.

13 nonames
Jumpbridg
#298 - 2012-05-14 09:36:39 UTC
Well thanks to CCP and there nurf to incisions iv lost the last thing that interested me so i'll be closing my accounts all 15 of them
and i know many others who used them to keep active and now that they have killed are slightest way of being active they have killed more of there gamers
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#299 - 2012-05-14 09:39:27 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
Well thanks to CCP and there nurf to incisions iv lost the last thing that interested me so i'll be closing my accounts all 15 of them
and i know many others who used them to keep active and now that they have killed are slightest way of being active they have killed more of there gamers

QQ moar.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#300 - 2012-05-14 12:38:44 UTC
Xorv wrote:

You still haven't told us what MMOs you're referring when you said "the best MMOs have PvP AND PvE" Name them! Might help us understand where you're coming from and where you're trying to take us.



I find it funny how you use the "us" vs "me/them".

Like i'm an enemy and everything that's not done by ccp is inherently evil.

Concerning the points i made in the posts above i was referring to the burning crusade expansion for world of warcraft.

I was listing wow among the "best" because of what it was able to do in terms of subscriptions and for what it did right.

One of the things it did right was having a balance between pve content and pvp content.

I'm not talking, sadly i have to repeat myself, about the general pvp mechanics of eve, i'm talking about the fact the in eve pve content is horrible and devs dont give it any thoughts.

What i'm advocating (i'm repeating myself but you seem unable to understand) it's not changing pvp mechanics or how pve interacts with pvp: i'm talking about improving pve.

For example mining is boring, ratting is boring, missioning is boring.
I'm saying: let's make these activities interesting!
It will have no impact on how pvp works, it'll just be better for those people who like to rat/mine/mission/incursions etc.

Hard to understand?

I'll say it again: not changing anything about the interactions between pvp and pve, just making pve better and funnier to do.