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Why force your play style on others?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#161 - 2012-05-05 16:50:54 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Travel through hisec and every system is full of people. Travel through 0.0 and it's largely empty.

Can't explain that.
Let me tell you about something called “density” and how it relates to available volume…

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-05-05 16:58:26 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Andski wrote:
I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita.


Sure, for the occasional blob war.


Yeah, you know, huge fights. User-generated content. No big deal, it's just 0.0 blobwar.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#163 - 2012-05-05 17:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Tippia wrote:
Let me tell you about something called “density” and how it relates to available volume.


Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#164 - 2012-05-05 17:01:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Andski wrote:
I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita.


Sure, for the occasional blob war.


Yeah, you know, huge fights. User-generated content. No big deal, it's just 0.0 blobwar.


You just blew my mind. I played chess earlier today with a friend, guess we generated a lot of content as well. \o/

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#165 - 2012-05-05 17:10:03 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Andski wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Andski wrote:
I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita.


Sure, for the occasional blob war.


Yeah, you know, huge fights. User-generated content. No big deal, it's just 0.0 blobwar.


You just blew my mind. I played chess earlier today with a friend, guess we generated a lot of content as well. \o/

No you didn't.

All the chess pieces still existed after the "fight."

You generated nothing but carbon dioxide and heat.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#166 - 2012-05-05 17:10:53 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from.
Exactly, so thus we arrive at the original conclusion: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#167 - 2012-05-05 17:12:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from.
Exactly, so thus we arrive at the original conclusion: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec.


The burden of proof is on you, for saying there are more 0.0 systems than hisec systems.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#168 - 2012-05-05 17:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Bane Necran wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from.
Exactly, so thus we arrive at the original conclusion: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec.


The burden of proof is on you, for saying there are more 0.0 systems than hisec systems.

You are unable to open the map? Proof positive.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#169 - 2012-05-05 17:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bane Necran wrote:
The burden of proof is on you, for saying there are more 0.0 systems than hisec systems.
Lol Ok, setting aside for a second that nothing of the kind was said and the absolutely absurdity of asking proof for something that has been known since 2003 and which is proven by the client and by the wiki and site like dotlan and… well every source on the matter available.


High sec: 1090
Low sec: 817
Nullsec: 6023 (of which 2499 are w-space).

Go count them. Not that it matters, because the fact remains the same: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#170 - 2012-05-05 17:49:34 UTC
Sources?

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#171 - 2012-05-05 17:52:49 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Sources?

The ******* map?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#172 - 2012-05-05 17:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Darth Gustav wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Sources?

The ******* map?


I'm just trying to ensure it's accurate. Not that i think Tippia would just make up numbers to support his side. Blink

Even if it's roughly 3500 in 0.0 to 1000 in hisec, 0.0 still wouldn't look as dense as hisec if all those people were packed into 1000 systems. 0.0 is absolutely barren.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#173 - 2012-05-05 18:18:33 UTC
I tend to think it's RL politics: people are so used to using government decrees and laws to screw people they don't like while trying to benefit themselves, they bring it into MMOs. Don't like something? Get the rules changed. Can't compete? Get laws passed. Somebody having too much fun? Well, "there should be a law!!!".


This is why I hope for a global libertarian revolution that topples all governments. And do you know what we are going to do to all of you when we accomplish this?

We're going to leave you alone.


And maybe after a few years of being left alone and not having to worry about someone else using weaponized democracy to take your stuff or tell you how to live, people would be more inclined to simply enjoy a MMO instead of trying to change it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-05-05 18:21:37 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
You fly in low and null sec that is the risk you as the player wished to make- you chose to do it, nobody twisted your arm. So stop trying to twist others arms because you chose a different play style.

Concord is a buffer of safety. It is not a net. There is no such thing as griefing in EVE online. And that play style you are saying is forced on you is the play style that has always been here. Just because everyone doesn't experience it all the time doesn't mean it isn't a constant.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=105069

Something clever
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#175 - 2012-05-05 18:21:51 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I tend to think it's RL politics: people are so used to using government decrees and laws to screw people they don't like while trying to benefit themselves, they bring it into MMOs. Don't like something? Get the rules changed. Can't compete? Get laws passed. Somebody having too much fun? Well, "there should be a law!!!".


This is why I hope for a global libertarian revolution that topples all governments. And do you know what we are going to do to all of you when we accomplish this?

We're going to leave you alone.


And maybe after a few years of being left alone and not having to worry about someone else using weaponized democracy to take your stuff or tell you how to live, people would be more inclined to simply enjoy a MMO instead of trying to change it.

Make sure your political commissariat is able to "neutralize" anyone that might be engaging in "weaponized democracy".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#176 - 2012-05-05 18:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bane Necran wrote:
Sources?
Download the data dump and do an SQL count for each sec level.

Quote:
Even if it's roughly 3500 in 0.0 to 1000 in hisec, 0.0 still wouldn't look as dense as hisec if all those people were packed into 1000 systems. 0.0 is absolutely barren.
…which still doesn't change the fact that the numbers do not show that most people are in highsec.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#177 - 2012-05-05 18:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Tippia wrote:
which still doesn't change the fact that the numbers do not show that most people are in highsec.


But it's like arguing that in the absence of actual numbers, there are more people in Russia than the US just because it's larger.

Thankfully, we have very accurate populations for each, and you can't say many people in the US are alts of Russians.

Or, are they Shocked

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#178 - 2012-05-05 18:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bane Necran wrote:
But it's like arguing that in the absence of actual numbers, there are more people in Russia than the US just because it's larger.
No, it's like arguing that just because you see people in highsec system doesn't mean the numbers show that there are more people in highsec.

…because the simple fact of the matter is that they don't.
Quote:
Thankfully, we have very accurate populations for each
…and unfortunately, we don't have any accurate player population numbers for the various sec levels. In fact, we don't even have inaccurate numbers.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#179 - 2012-05-05 18:44:50 UTC
If complete uncertainty is now your goal, instead of proving there are more people in 0.0 who are just spread out, like you originally said, i'll consider that a victory.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#180 - 2012-05-05 18:48:26 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
If complete uncertainty is now your goal, instead of proving there are more people in 0.0 who are just spread out, like you originally said, i'll consider that a victory.
…except of course that it was the uncertainty part that was said originally. You're confusing me with you — you were the one brought density into the discussion.