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[proposal] limit gang links to a single grid

First post
Author
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#161 - 2011-12-23 15:26:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
Cearain wrote:
They are not used solo.

Actually, yes, they are...


Really you see people flying t3 gang link ships solo? I think it would be kind of silly to fly that without another ship that they give the bonuses to but whatever you may still see it. How does that work for them?

You know if they are giving the bonuses to another ship, that is 2 ships right? To me solo means 1.




Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#162 - 2011-12-23 15:37:50 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Andski wrote:
You do not need to run a T3 gang link alt to be competitive, believe it or not

Guess that depends on where and how one operates. Try going up against a boosted Hurricane in your unboosted ditto and see how well you fare .. he'll have longer scram, higher speed, lower sig and more EHP than you can ever achieve "alone". But for a gank on a gate/undock or a bait/trap it does indeed make little difference.



Its just a difference in the type of pvp we do and what he does. I'm not saying one is better or worse but its definitely different.

For solo and small scale pvpers it makes a big difference. In fact I would almost say you practically throwing ships away if you don't have a booster alt.

Now with the t2 mods I'm training my alt. But the thing is eve is not going to be as fun when I am forced to do things like drag alts around with me. By forcing this down everyones throat people are more likely to get tired of eve and unsub altogether.

Short term gain by making people get booster alts = long term loss because eve is no longer as fun.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#163 - 2011-12-23 16:27:21 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already.


Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship.

It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2011-12-23 16:30:06 UTC
Andski wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already.


Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship.

It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure!


No...it has to do with immunity from the risk vs reward scale that EvE is supposed to have.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#165 - 2011-12-23 16:42:51 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Andski wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already.


Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship.

It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure!


No...it has to do with immunity from the risk vs reward scale that EvE is supposed to have.


Overwhelm them with superior numbers, bait them next door, or deny them a fight. If you're that worried upset you can't get a killmail on some chucklefuck in a linkship (because you're not equipped to probe it down, or you don't want to bubble its POS, w/e) then I don't know what to say.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2011-12-23 17:00:26 UTC
Don't say anything at all...you obviously are completely oblivious and ignorant to the entire issue.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#167 - 2011-12-23 17:22:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already.


Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship.

It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure!



What are you talking about honor? There is nothing dishonorable about using t3 boosters I don't recall anyone saying there was. Nice attempt at a strawman. Roll

Lots of people prefer not to have to drag a neutral alt everywhere they go in order to pvp. It has to do with wanting to have fun in the game as opposed to the game being a chore.

Some people think eve is such "serious business" they don't understand that. Perhaps that is why you missed a major point of this proposal. I don't know.

The only thing I can say is you are deliberately skipping the reasons people actually give for wanting this proposal and creating strawmen.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#168 - 2011-12-23 17:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Andski wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Andski wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already.


Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship.

It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure!


No...it has to do with immunity from the risk vs reward scale that EvE is supposed to have.


Overwhelm them with superior numbers, bait them next door, or deny them a fight. If you're that worried upset you can't get a killmail on some chucklefuck in a linkship (because you're not equipped to probe it down, or you don't want to bubble its POS, w/e) then I don't know what to say.




This is your serious business nulls sec mindset. "deny them a fight" great. You know lots of people like to pvp in this game. Denying them a fight also denies you a fight. Signing on with no fights is just as boring for me as it is for them. Fights where you are just camping gates/setting bait and blob traps, and winning with overwhelming numbers is boring too. Do you really still get any sort of thrill from that?

The thing is you play the game much different than lots of other people interested in this topic. Your strategy and null sec sov strategy in general often boils down to doing things that make it so the enemy no longer wants to log on anymore. The problem is those tactics often involve *you* doing things that are eyestabbingly boring as well. It’s a matter of who can out-bore the other side. The side that "wants it more" read "takes internet spaceships more seriously" wins.

In chess there used to be no time limits. And sometimes people would just take hours to make a move. And sometimes it took so long the other guy just couldn't stand it and left. This actually had a name. It was called “out sitting” your opponent. Well that’s the way I and allot of others see sov war in eve. How long are you going to sit camping that gate or that station?

You and likely many people who play the game like you are simply out of touch with the other people who will say "yeah this is boring/a chore I will stop playing." They just don’t care as much as you do. If the game is boring or a chore they will do other things with their time.

Anyway none of this has much to do with the proposal. (other than to point out the solutions you think of, are not really going to work for people who aren’t super serious about internet spaceships) If booster ships have to be on grid you can still use your strategy of outboring the other side. But on the other hand people aren't super serious internet politicians and sign in to have fun fights will get a benefit.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#169 - 2011-12-23 18:54:34 UTC
Because denying them a fight was the only option I proposed

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#170 - 2011-12-23 19:15:43 UTC
Andski wrote:
Because denying them a fight was the only option I proposed



I also addressed your suggestions of overwhelming them with superior numbers and bait and ganking them.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#171 - 2011-12-23 19:24:57 UTC
"who says I need to use tactics, tactics are for the boring sov nullsec blobbers"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#172 - 2011-12-23 19:33:33 UTC
Andski wrote:
"who says I need to use tactics, tactics are for the boring sov nullsec blobbers"


Yep your right. Thats what I said. Roll

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2011-12-30 19:33:16 UTC
A full week with no bump...this is unacceptable...

Gang links...on grid. You wanna contribute to a fight then you need to be in the fight. Period.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#174 - 2011-12-31 12:15:42 UTC
This is obvious and should have been done a long time ago.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2011-12-31 12:27:50 UTC
Support. Maybe people will *gasp* actually put gang links on a disposable tier 2 bc?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2011-12-31 13:35:39 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
A full week with no bump...this is unacceptable...

Gang links...on grid. You wanna contribute to a fight then you need to be in the fight. Period.

I can think of one reason why not: shield gang links. It's bad enough shield gang links have an issue just from getting in the right system, they don't really need to keep yo-yoing back and forth between boosted and unboosted.

If they fix this so the levels are determined based on a percentage of full shield, however, then I see no real problem.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#177 - 2012-01-01 03:28:51 UTC
I support this change.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#178 - 2012-01-01 15:04:28 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
This is obvious and should have been done a long time ago.


This.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2012-01-02 16:56:24 UTC
I have an alternate solution for those that won't concede to the obvious fact of fleet boosters needing to be on grid.

Instead of requiring fleet boosters to be on grid make them act like Triage/Siege modules. Can't activate inside a POS's sheilds, cannot warp and takes a 5 minute cycle time.

Now we can do exactly what the idiots are saying and scan for the fleet booster and kill him.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-01-02 17:57:22 UTC
Fix shield boosting to not suck dilz when warping between grids, and I see absolutely no reason not to require the booster to be on-grid.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat