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New War Dec Prices on Test

Author
Goatfather
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#1 - 2012-05-03 04:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Goatfather
Goatfather wrote:
[quote=Lithalnas]The cost of wardecs is a little harsh don't you think?

50m starting plus 500k per person x1 = 50.5m
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503021901.jpg
50M starting plus 500k per person (xxdeathxx) = 789.5m
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503021125.jpg
50M starting plus 500k per person (Goonswarm) = 4.297 Billion
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503020931.jpg



We should just make one massive merc/war alliance in HS. Push our differences aside if this system actually goes live.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-03 04:51:01 UTC
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#3 - 2012-05-03 04:53:23 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

You'd be surprised.

Don't forget the war stacking multiplier, lol.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Goatfather
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#4 - 2012-05-03 05:23:03 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.


As it says: 50m starting plus 500k per person x1 = 50.5m

*ahem* it's on the test server, thus it's "in place" enough to have made it that far.

I do not think CCP is dumb, I feel CCP is making a choice based on what they felt was good. What means they utilized to decide what is good, who knows.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-03 06:23:15 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

The 50M base fee isn't the issue. The 500K per member is.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-03 06:40:21 UTC
So don't deck goons in highsec and move in on their turf. There is realisticly, way more ******* people who may not like them and if all of EVE (if that were to happen) were to focus on goons, they would be crushed like a cat under a monster truck. And you could do it without a wardec fee at all.

Also...GTFO of highsec, problem ******* solved. Been saying that all along if you don't like highsec shenanigans
Aesheera
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-05-03 07:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Aesheera
Sounds to me that if this hits tranquility it will kill empire decs for the most part.

Not only do you have to pay ridiculous fees, with the ally system that will go in effect, no one will be that interested in putting up even a vote.

My opinion:

Arrow Increase the dec fee - good call.

Arrow Add a 'per member' cost value - bad call.

Arrow Unlimited allies for the target - ridiculous.


Im fine with upping the costs, but I don't think anyone is looking forward to have a corp-vs-corp dec cost rougly 100m a dec (considering 50 member average) - pre-stacking fee - only to see the enemy attract every merc corp in the bloody universe to jump in on the fight at 0 cost other than what mercs themselves will charge.

Doesn't sound like it has been thought through enough.

I predict a massive suicide gank increase and mercs advertising with that as a specific service;

NEED SOMEONE KILLED?

Hire us for our Tornado gank service.

What?

Aqriue wrote:

Also...GTFO of highsec, problem ******* solved. Been saying that all along if you don't like highsec shenanigans

Pretty bad argument.
Just because YOU might not enjoy that, empire decs for some is a massive part of their EVE entertainment.

There's guys out there that can't stand 0.0 politics and 200 man blob wars, or just don't feel like wasting their sec status just to get a few kills every week.

Its okay to change a mechanic, introducing a system that will almost completely remove it, that's simply stupid.

- I think my passion is misinterpreted as anger sometimes. And I don't think people are ready for the message that I'm delivering, and delivering with a sense of violent love.

Devore Sekk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-05-03 07:40:06 UTC
Aesheera wrote:
Im fine with upping the costs, but I don't think anyone is looking forward to have a corp-vs-corp dec cost rougly 100m a dec (considering 50 member average) - pre-stacking fee - only to see the enemy attract every merc corp in the bloody universe to jump in on the fight at 0 cost other than what mercs themselves will charge.


Wut? Half decent mercs aren't cheap. Hiring a bunch of bozos with some PvP ships is just throwing your money away, especially without neutral rr.
qu1ckkkk
The Warp Core Stabilizers
#9 - 2012-05-03 07:53:46 UTC
Aesheera wrote:

Not only do you have to pay ridiculous fees, with the ally system that will go in effect, no one will be that interested in putting up even a vote.


Assuming you didn't read the changes, a corporation vote is no longer needed.

Aesheera wrote:

Im fine with upping the costs, but I don't think anyone is looking forward to have a corp-vs-corp dec cost rougly 100m a dec (considering 50 member average) - pre-stacking fee - only to see the enemy attract every merc corp in the bloody universe to jump in on the fight at 0 cost other than what mercs themselves will charge.

Doesn't sound like it has been thought through enough.

I predict a massive suicide gank increase and mercs advertising with that as a specific service;

NEED SOMEONE KILLED?

Hire us for our Tornado gank service.


I myself have long discussed this balance problem that I foresee due to the costs as well as the unlimited allies with a few mates. I'm not too bothered with the fact that deccing goonz is 4Bil +, but the smaller decs even costing a bil is pretty meh.

Taking into account the cost implications, as well as the unlimited allies problem, dont you think the shift to everyone suddenly doing merc work rather than actually aggressing might hurt empire decs? No doubt, there will still be wars, but the risk-cost implications is pretty big :)

Those that havent seen the fanfest vid on Inferno should watch it. CCP want's dec's to be more 'hardcode'. We'll, the only way that is happening is by preventing the dec shielding crap and getting out of a dec before the week is over. Other than that, meh.

Heck, I'll probably do free merc work now considering I'll be joining a bunch of allies ^^

my 2c

Proud developer of SeAT! A Simple Eve API & Corporation Management Tool.

Project Page: https://github.com/eveseat/seat

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#10 - 2012-05-03 08:27:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

You'd be surprised.

Don't forget the war stacking multiplier, lol.

There won't be no stacking multiplier in the new system Straight

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#11 - 2012-05-03 08:46:47 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

You'd be surprised.

Don't forget the war stacking multiplier, lol.

There won't be no stacking multiplier in the new system Straight

Okay, so that's a good sign at least.

Still, as someone who's managed successful small mercenary outfits for many years now, I can tell you that mercenary services will now exclusively become the domain of the wealthy. As it is now, few clients are willing to pay a decent service fee (I'm talking in the couple-hundred-million area), and when a 100-200 million war fee comes into play, many get turned off entirely. With these changes, it will cost hundreds of millions just to wage a week of war. So small-scale mercenary groups will either have to work for free (and still have less jobs than they do today), or not work entirely.

CCP needs to realize that a billion ISK is a lot of money for some carebear corporation that wants to hire muscle for some revenge. The professional mercenary industry has already been declining for the past few years, at least as far as small groups are concerned. We made a pretty big deal out of the new fee structure in General Discussion, but CCP declined to listen.

Like Aesheera said, it will probably be more financially viable to suicide-gank than to declare war after the changes.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Aesheera
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-05-03 09:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aesheera
qu1ckkkk wrote:
Aesheera wrote:

Not only do you have to pay ridiculous fees, with the ally system that will go in effect, no one will be that interested in putting up even a vote.


Assuming you didn't read the changes, a corporation vote is no longer needed.

Small typo, I was aware, but you get what I mean.

qu1ckkkk wrote:
I myself have long discussed this balance problem that I foresee due to the costs as well as the unlimited allies with a few mates. I'm not too bothered with the fact that deccing goonz is 4Bil +, but the smaller decs even costing a bil is pretty meh.

Taking into account the cost implications, as well as the unlimited allies problem, dont you think the shift to everyone suddenly doing merc work rather than actually aggressing might hurt empire decs? No doubt, there will still be wars, but the risk-cost implications is pretty big :)

Those that havent seen the fanfest vid on Inferno should watch it. CCP want's dec's to be more 'hardcode'. We'll, the only way that is happening is by preventing the dec shielding crap and getting out of a dec before the week is over. Other than that, meh.

Heck, I'll probably do free merc work now considering I'll be joining a bunch of allies ^^

my 2c


Thats most likely what will happen if this is going live on Tranq.

Who will even bother wardeccing someone?
Heck RvB will probably shutdown with this mechanic since the costs for their - in my opinion - amazing Empire war operation will be nigh unfundable for a prolonged amount of time.

I don't think CCP realises the weight of this decision.
People left and right will be offering themselves as so called Mercs just to get free targets and the amount of dockgames will increase to such a degree that within a 2 month notice highsec will become what the PvE'rs (the ones that have at least) always whined about.

And if that doesn't happen highsec will most likely become one big fat alliance or two just to demotivate anyone from ever declaring a war.
I mean, who wants to even pay billions for a one week wartarget hunt?

A big string of systems where every missionrunner, miner and industrialist will be able to do whatever they want without anyone bothering to deploy some grief - not that that's my thing, but making it THIS risk adverse will make it extremely unengaging.
Not to mention the 'suspect' mechanic where even a simple canflip for said griefers will be punished so hard that it's going to become one, big lifeless pool of PvP boredom.

The consequences have too big of an impact.

My proposed changes?

Arrow Increase base dec fee and only that, screw +member fees.

Arrow Remove max number of corporation decs (like is planned atm).

Arrow Limit the number of recruitable allies to 2 corps or a number of people relevant to the aggressors member count in one way or the other.

Arrow Neutral logistics. End this. Make out of corp Logi's suspects for anyone to agress, or better yet, give them GCC.
The amount of neutral RR seen as an over(ab)used tactic has gotten way out of hand.
There's ways to deal with this ofcourse, but i personally feel that use of Logi's should be restricted to in-alliance/in-corp usage.

- I think my passion is misinterpreted as anger sometimes. And I don't think people are ready for the message that I'm delivering, and delivering with a sense of violent love.

JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-05-03 09:17:20 UTC
4,2 billions to war dec goons.

This is madness.

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#14 - 2012-05-03 09:24:15 UTC
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

The 50M base fee isn't the issue. The 500K per member is.


Allinces/corps should have a tax on members that becomes an ISK sink Ie 100m per month per member which would encourage corps to ditch dead beats and prevent them from filling up with alts to boost the price of war. It would also make alting much harder for no profitable reason.
Aesheera
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-05-03 09:32:45 UTC
Devore Sekk wrote:
Aesheera wrote:
Im fine with upping the costs, but I don't think anyone is looking forward to have a corp-vs-corp dec cost rougly 100m a dec (considering 50 member average) - pre-stacking fee - only to see the enemy attract every merc corp in the bloody universe to jump in on the fight at 0 cost other than what mercs themselves will charge.


Wut? Half decent mercs aren't cheap. Hiring a bunch of bozos with some PvP ships is just throwing your money away, especially without neutral rr.

You miss my point, the influx of people offering themselves as mercs is going to skyrocket and honestly, why would a decced corp even care if the people that offer themselves for free are worth their salt?

The more they can rally in their defense the better right?

Especially with the 0 limit.

- I think my passion is misinterpreted as anger sometimes. And I don't think people are ready for the message that I'm delivering, and delivering with a sense of violent love.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#16 - 2012-05-03 09:45:00 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

The 50M base fee isn't the issue. The 500K per member is.


Allinces/corps should have a tax on members that becomes an ISK sink Ie 100m per month per member which would encourage corps to ditch dead beats and prevent them from filling up with alts to boost the price of war. It would also make alting much harder for no profitable reason.



A Corp member tax will not work. If it was 100mil per month per member, it would be cheaper to be in an NPC corp and just pay the high tax when you rat or do missions. The shutdown of almost all the player corps would be the only result.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#17 - 2012-05-03 09:54:47 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
Is this 50m starting for a corporation of any size? That's ridiculous. That being said, I don't think CCP is dumb enough to put a system like that in place.

The 50M base fee isn't the issue. The 500K per member is.


Allinces/corps should have a tax on members that becomes an ISK sink Ie 100m per month per member which would encourage corps to ditch dead beats and prevent them from filling up with alts to boost the price of war. It would also make alting much harder for no profitable reason.



A Corp member tax will not work. If it was 100mil per month per member, it would be cheaper to be in an NPC corp and just pay the high tax when you rat or do missions. The shutdown of almost all the player corps would be the only result.

Not that I agree with the idea per se, but what if the tax was 500,000 ISK per week? You know, exactly what the aggressor would have to pay per member in the case of war?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Tigris Liono
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#18 - 2012-05-03 10:10:21 UTC
Aesheera wrote:


Who will even bother wardeccing someone?
Heck RvB will probably shutdown with this mechanic since the costs for their - in my opinion - amazing Empire war operation will be nigh unfundable for a prolonged amount of time.

[snip]




Just a thought, but RvB's war is mutual, so it doesn't cost anything (although, I may be misinformed, please feel free to correct me if this is so)

If that option stays with the new system, RvB will be able to carry on as they see fit.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#19 - 2012-05-03 10:17:12 UTC
Devore Sekk wrote:
Aesheera wrote:
Im fine with upping the costs, but I don't think anyone is looking forward to have a corp-vs-corp dec cost rougly 100m a dec (considering 50 member average) - pre-stacking fee - only to see the enemy attract every merc corp in the bloody universe to jump in on the fight at 0 cost other than what mercs themselves will charge.


Wut? Half decent mercs aren't cheap. Hiring a bunch of bozos with some PvP ships is just throwing your money away, especially without neutral rr.


If my understanding is correct, the defender won't have to pay any fee to bring in allies (ie fee to CONCORD), other than what those allies want. What we'll do (and I suspect many other groups will do) is run around joining decs for free. If you're a defender, why would you ever pay for mercs when a bunch of HS dec corps (many of whom are better than the listed mercs) are willing to jump in for free so they don't have to pay eleventy-billion ISK/week for decs?
qu1ckkkk
The Warp Core Stabilizers
#20 - 2012-05-03 10:22:10 UTC
Aesheera wrote:

Arrow Limit the number of recruitable allies to 2 corps or a number of people relevant to the aggressors member count in one way or the other.

This is the only semi sensible 'proposal' you have :/

Aesheera wrote:

Arrow Neutral logistics. End this. Make out of corp Logi's suspects for anyone to agress, or better yet, give them GCC.
The amount of neutral RR seen as an over(ab)used tactic has gotten way out of hand.
There's ways to deal with this ofcourse, but i personally feel that use of Logi's should be restricted to in-alliance/in-corp usage.


I suspect someone got some 'suddently logistics' recently? lol. Proposing GCC for this is lame haha. Agression like anything else is fine, but GCC... lol lol

Proud developer of SeAT! A Simple Eve API & Corporation Management Tool.

Project Page: https://github.com/eveseat/seat

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