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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hulkageddon made me quit

First post
Author
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#361 - 2012-05-07 16:12:50 UTC
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
instead form a coalition and go take those moons. Then your Hulks will be cheap.


Given CCP has on multiple occasions said they'll be nerfing those moons it seems like an awful lot of trouble to form a coalition to take something that might disappear ten minutes afterwards.

It make much more sense to not mine in hulks and see how it shakes out in a few months.

I agree with you, however, I'd like to point out that this would essentially entail the same thing: the whiners having to make a concerted effort, and work as a team, via their own initiative, to achieve a goal. This is something that will never happen, because it's simply easier for them to whine to get what they want.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#362 - 2012-05-07 16:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
instead form a coalition and go take those moons. Then your Hulks will be cheap.


Given CCP has on multiple occasions said they'll be nerfing those moons it seems like an awful lot of trouble to form a coalition to take something that might disappear ten minutes afterwards.

It make much more sense to not mine in hulks and see how it shakes out in a few months.

I agree with you, however, I'd like to point out that this would essentially entail the same thing: the whiners having to make a concerted effort, and work as a team, via their own initiative, to achieve a goal. This is something that will never happen, because it's simply easier for them to whine to get what they want.


one would argue the same thing for all those people "whining" about super caps and destroyers before they got nerfed or buffed. You could also call them whiners for not " make a concerted effort, and work as a team, via their own initiative, to achieve a goal" OR "it's simply easier for them to whine to get what they want". Oh sorry i forgot, didnt they whine till they got nerfed or buffed?
Krell Trublood
Acme Rocketship Company
#363 - 2012-05-07 16:48:43 UTC
Jeremy Firewind wrote:
Yadda, yadda, tears and rage, yadda......


Lord of the Rings Online is a real nice game. If you don't go to the designated PvP area I don't believe there is any possible way for one player to 'grief' another. You can't even train NPC crap onto people. Maybe you should give that a whirl?

Eve is a very different sort of game, and it's not for everybody. The possibility of being ganked is always there. For many that adds spice to the game, even when we are pursuing "carebear" activities. You have to try to be smart, as has already been noted. If you have real valuable stuff to haul you need to think it through, not just load 500 billion ISK worth of goodies into a freighter and set it to autopilot halfway across the universe. And, if you mine, you need to take Hulkageddon into account!

Bottom line: it's your own fault. Maybe Eve really isn't for you, so.... bye.
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#364 - 2012-05-07 17:06:16 UTC
I have never mined before but while Hulkegeddon is going on why don’t the miners mine in tanked up battle ships with tanking command ship bonuses going and a logistics chain running? Might not get the most mins but wont the CFC turds need to bring a lot more peeps to the party to take you down?
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#365 - 2012-05-07 17:07:49 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
I have never mined before but while Hulkegeddon is going on why don’t the miners mine in tanked up battle ships with tanking command ship bonuses going and a logistics chain running? Might not get the most mins but wont the CFC turds need to bring a lot more peeps to the party to take you down?
.


A BS will pop to 10 Tornadoes just like a Hulk. They are just not an 'official' Target.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#366 - 2012-05-07 17:56:32 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Snot Shot wrote:
I have never mined before but while Hulkegeddon is going on why don’t the miners mine in tanked up battle ships with tanking command ship bonuses going and a logistics chain running? Might not get the most mins but wont the CFC turds need to bring a lot more peeps to the party to take you down?
.


A BS will pop to 10 Tornadoes just like a Hulk. They are just not an 'official' Target.


[Rokh, Mining Rokh]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5

Takes 23 tornados right in the face, mines 1200+m3 (a little less than a covetor with T2 crystals and mining drones)

BUT I HAVE TO USE A HULK QQ QQ QQ

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#367 - 2012-05-07 18:18:17 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Snot Shot wrote:
I have never mined before but while Hulkegeddon is going on why don’t the miners mine in tanked up battle ships with tanking command ship bonuses going and a logistics chain running? Might not get the most mins but wont the CFC turds need to bring a lot more peeps to the party to take you down?
.


A BS will pop to 10 Tornadoes just like a Hulk. They are just not an 'official' Target.


[Rokh, Mining Rokh]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5

Takes 23 tornados right in the face, mines 1200+m3 (a little less than a covetor with T2 crystals and mining drones)

BUT I HAVE TO USE A HULK QQ QQ QQ

Add in a Vulture and a few scimis and I bet that could make the gank attempts a lot more interesting....Pirate
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#368 - 2012-05-07 20:00:16 UTC
Well, given 2 of 3 mining links are essentially pointless, they can toss in shield links on the Orca.

Takes it from 23 'nados to 27.

So, it costs 2.7billion to gank your Insurable mining ship with alpha.

If they're going the route of DPS, then one Osprey tossing shield reps on it ought to give it a beastly 'tank' (or go mad with a scimitar covering your fleet of several Rokhs).

OR

OR

They can learn DSCAN and mine in their Hulks.

But apparently, quitting is easier.

v0v

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#369 - 2012-05-07 20:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Well, given 2 of 3 mining links are essentially pointless, they can toss in shield links on the Orca.

Takes it from 23 'nados to 27.

So, it costs 2.7billion to gank your Insurable mining ship with alpha.

If they're going the route of DPS, then one Osprey tossing shield reps on it ought to give it a beastly 'tank' (or go mad with a scimitar covering your fleet of several Rokhs).

OR

OR

They can learn DSCAN and mine in their Hulks.

But apparently, quitting is easier.

v0v

I don't think you understand. There is a type of player that will absolutely under no circumstances ever do anything that does not directly increase the quantity of ISK they can earn per hour without having to look at the screen, anything that would cause them to earn less isk is anathema to them as is anything that requires them to actually be playing the game, they would literally rather have their means of getting isk destroyed over and over again than switch to something that costs less and is a thousand times harder to destroy if it generates even so much as 1% less isk per hour. Many of these people also refuse to ever cooperate with other people at all, ever because cooperation means sharing and sharing means less profit. They also feel completely entitled to do what they want in absolute safety without anyone ever interacting with them and will spew bile and hatred at anyone who dares to disturb them.

Not all highsec miners are those people, but all of those people are highsec miners.
feminakitten
Wyrd Sisters
#370 - 2012-05-07 21:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: feminakitten
[
Orly Rly
Ship vs Rock
#371 - 2012-05-07 23:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Orly Rly
Some of the analogies that raging nerds come up with while they trip over each other trying to be noticed are so out of context, I wonder if they're posting in the wrong thread.

It's unfortunate that Eve is turning into what it is, and it's no fault of the game, but the people who use it.

You have miners earning (what everyone says) one of the lowest income streams in the game, and people feel justified 'lowering that ISK amount even further htfu' is ok. If anything, it's called for (to suicide gankers). I assume they haven't mined much, if at all, as illustrated by their understanding of the situation.

On the other hand, you have these people who will complain if they can't go around attacking (basically) defenseless ships, but make no mention of nullsec/lowsec PvP. It's almost like this element of the game is everything to them. It's almost as though padding their killmails is important, as if the nullsec alliance they plan to join won't notice they just suicide-gank mining ships. I could be wrong, but after years of seeing the same point of view being tossed around daily, it becomes clear.

This is akin to Battlefield 3, or any other game with statistics. You have these people who've been padding their stats in some manner or another, they make a big deal about how good they are, until the first person who bothers to actually check their stats to realise it's all noob tube and metro kills. Hectic skills. Let's all get excited and hormonal about a killmail when Goons kill a freighter 20 to 1.

Without bothering to read every page of the lobotomy showcase, I can see this is becoming a matter of concern for many players, or the thread wouldn't be growing 4 times as fast as neighbouring threads. And the argument seems to be between 2 groups of players, highsec miners, and the circling vultures looking for the defenseless mouse to kill.

Sure, you can say "Oh well they don't tank their ships, bad luck to them." - Well I say "Pity you can't get a kill without picking on afk mining ships, or camping lowsec gates." - Because if you were any more awesome than this, you'd be farming real kills that are actually mail worthy, as skilled players already understand.

(Havent lost any ships to geddon, am not mad, just another person with their 2 cents)

The final part of my 2 cents is sure, ships should be suicide gankable, not invincible. However, the cost should be higher for the suicide ganker than the cost of damage to the victim, OR at the very least, close. If a 250m ship took out a 300m ship, you wouldn't see such an issue. But this disparity in the value of ships is definitely a matter of concern.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#372 - 2012-05-07 23:46:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Orly Rly wrote:
However, the cost should be higher for the suicide ganker than the cost of damage to the victim, OR at the very least, close. If a 250m ship took out a 300m ship, you wouldn't see such an issue. But this disparity in the value of ships is definitely a matter of concern.


I demonstrated above how they could flip the scales and get a near 20:1 ratio on ISK lost to the gankers vs their own ISK lost. But, they choose not to.

Furthermore, if I kill a 2bil Tengu in a couple of cheap battlecruisers costing 1/20th their value in total, should the Tengu be made cheaper? Should my ships be made more expensive? If i then attack a Typhoon, should its value fluctuate depending on what I use to kill it? Should a Dramiel beat every other frigate as it costs more? Plus all the T1 cruisers, battlecruisers, and some battleships?

No, because that's fundamentally stupid.

Point is, OP (and the rest of them) decided they would risk a 300mil ship for the extra yield, failed to take a SINGLE precaution that would actually help, and as a very very predictable result, lost that ship.

That's how the game is meant to work.

As for your hurf blurf about killboard stats ...no.
9/10 killboards break the ships destroyed down by type, so you can't really "pad" with mining barges. Then you have the fact the people doing it are probably losing "proper kills" they could be making elsewhere to trawl highsec for Hulks; most people getting involved are already avid PVPers. I don't think the organizer : http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Helicity+Boson really needs to pad up a 30:1 k:d ratio.

But, you continue on with your master analysis NPC alt #8454487

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#373 - 2012-05-07 23:56:43 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

. I don't think the organizer : http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Helicity+Boson really needs to pad up a 30:1 k:d ratio.

But, you continue on with your master analysis NPC alt #8454487


You will note that none of Helicity's kills are mining ganks in highsec btw.

I don't need to pad my KB :P
Orly Rly
Ship vs Rock
#374 - 2012-05-08 00:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Orly Rly
Khanh'rhh wrote:
I demonstrated above how they could flip the scales and get a near 20:1 ratio on ISK lost to the gankers vs their own ISK lost. But, they choose not to.

Not everyone wants to play the game in this manner everytime someone else decides to start a gankfest. Or else what's the point of flying a Tengu if (as you describe) it can be ganked by a ship a 20th of it's cost and skill time. We may as well all run around in the cheapest most OP ship, and spend no time skilling up for ships that can be ganked by a ship that's a 20th of it's cost/time.

Khanh'rhh wrote:
[Furthermore, if I kill a 2bil Tengu in a couple of cheap battlecruisers costing 1/20th their value in total, should the Tengu be made cheaper? Should my ships be made more expensive?

This, is also a matter of concern.

Khanh'rhh wrote:
Point is, OP (and the rest of them) decided they would risk a 300mil ship for the extra yield, failed to take a SINGLE precaution that would actually help, and as a very very predictable result, lost that ship.

You also raise another unrelated issue, which is the price disparity between a Covetor and Hulk when the Hulk only earns a slight increase in yield and cargo. No point worrying about how much ehp each ship as since even a tanked hulk can be suicide ganked easily. This is why it's called Hulkageddon and not Covetorageddon, why go for the cheap ship when you can just as easily take out the ship 10 times it's value with the same amount of effort. It's almost a organised kick in the face, which CCP should be addressing.

Khanh'rhh wrote:
9/10 killboards break the ships destroyed down by type, so you can't really "pad" with mining barges. Then you have the fact the people doing it are probably losing "proper kills" they could be making elsewhere to trawl highsec for Hulks; most people getting involved are already avid PVPers.

First part of this just coincides with my point, but whatever. Secondly, if they are avid PvP players, they should be out there doing something challenging, suicide ganking mining ships is pretty tough stuff that requires plenty of skill and experience right? And this isn't just an issue during Hulk event, it's been a problem for much longer.

Khanh'rhh wrote:
But, you continue on with your master analysis NPC alt #8454487

Clutching at straws. My opinion is as relevant as the next mans, no matter which character I am logged into at the time. This comment cheapened your post. If you think my 'NPC alt' rant is baseless, you needn't reply. 'One up' comments like these are pretty childish.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#375 - 2012-05-08 00:30:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Andrea Roche wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
instead form a coalition and go take those moons. Then your Hulks will be cheap.


Given CCP has on multiple occasions said they'll be nerfing those moons it seems like an awful lot of trouble to form a coalition to take something that might disappear ten minutes afterwards.

It make much more sense to not mine in hulks and see how it shakes out in a few months.

I agree with you, however, I'd like to point out that this would essentially entail the same thing: the whiners having to make a concerted effort, and work as a team, via their own initiative, to achieve a goal. This is something that will never happen, because it's simply easier for them to whine to get what they want.


one would argue the same thing for all those people "whining" about super caps and destroyers before they got nerfed or buffed. You could also call them whiners for not " make a concerted effort, and work as a team, via their own initiative, to achieve a goal" OR "it's simply easier for them to whine to get what they want". Oh sorry i forgot, didnt they whine till they got nerfed or buffed?

There are fundamental differences between killing a mining barge with a few dedicated combat ships, and, say, doing 60,000 damage to everything on the grid with the press of a button. Some gameplay mechanics are/were objectively imbalanced, and some are/were simply perceived as such.

Let's say that destroyers get reverted back to their pre-buff stats. That simply means that they'll do 25% less damage. Do you know how much Hulks would have to be buffed in order to make the gankers only break even with the Hulk pilot in terms of costs? Hulks would need to have at least 80,000 EHP, and that's assuming that the destroyer pilots use T2 guns. If they use T1 guns, you can multiply that figure by at least 5.

So, if gankers use T2 gear to gank, your Hulk would need to have as much EHP as my pvp Loki. For T1 module ganks, your Hulk would need to have the EHP of a cyno-bait, deadspace-fit battleship.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#376 - 2012-05-08 00:38:32 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
I have never mined before but while Hulkegeddon is going on why don’t the miners mine in tanked up battle ships with tanking command ship bonuses going and a logistics chain running? Might not get the most mins but wont the CFC turds need to bring a lot more peeps to the party to take you down?
.


Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You don't get it man, he doesn't want just some ore, he wants all the ore. If he can't min-max his carebear mining profits to their highest potential, at all times, without any risk, the game is fundamentally flawed to him.




Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Snot Shot wrote:
I have never mined before but while Hulkegeddon is going on why don’t the miners mine in tanked up battle ships with tanking command ship bonuses going and a logistics chain running? Might not get the most mins but wont the CFC turds need to bring a lot more peeps to the party to take you down?
.


A BS will pop to 10 Tornadoes just like a Hulk. They are just not an 'official' Target.

You really think we're going to drop 800-odd million ISK to gank an almost fully-insured T1 battleship, that doesn't even have expensive modules fit?

PS: lol at the guy above who thinks that ship utility should scale linearly with cost, and that alliances for some reason shun recruiting barge gankers. Yeah man, you got the game all figured out it seems.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#377 - 2012-05-08 00:41:59 UTC
Orly Rly wrote:
Secondly, if they are avid PvP players, they should be out there doing something challenging, suicide ganking mining ships is pretty tough stuff that requires plenty of skill and experience right? And this isn't just an issue during Hulk event, it's been a problem for much longer.

Thanks for telling us what we should and shouldn't be doing, pvp pro. Your sage advice is a shining beacon that guides us all.

You're right about one thing, though. This "issue" has been a "problem" for a long, long time. Since the game came out, in fact.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#378 - 2012-05-08 02:19:35 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Orly Rly wrote:
Secondly, if they are avid PvP players, they should be out there doing something challenging, suicide ganking mining ships is pretty tough stuff that requires plenty of skill and experience right? And this isn't just an issue during Hulk event, it's been a problem for much longer.

Thanks for telling us what we should and shouldn't be doing, pvp pro. Your sage advice is a shining beacon that guides us all.

You're right about one thing, though. This "issue" has been a "problem" for a long, long time. Since the game came out, in fact.


I, for one, have resigned to accepting this problem. Some say I may have embraced it fully and completly ;)

Whiny Carebears: Waaaahhh Waaahhh! This game isn't being played the way I want it to be!

Everyone Else: Then go play another game.

Whiny Carebears: Fine! I will. I quit!

Everyone Else: o/

Whiny Carebears: I'm still pissed about this and want to waste everyones time with straw man arguments and logic steeped in extreme amounts of hubris and hyperbole! CCP must get involved!

Everyone Else: I thought you were leaving.
ix z'el
Doomheim
#379 - 2012-05-08 02:31:41 UTC
jeremy i am a miner too. i lost a hulk to a ganker just b4 hulkabeggin. i decided to switch my view point about mining. mining is no longer an equitable source of income because of the cheapass ships able to gank you so easily. mining now is merely a place to grub up some isk and work it in the markets. thats how i made the switch. i refuse to mine and support the very people out to kill my ships becuz they think they have a right to do so. why should i mine and sell minerals to alliances that need billions of units of trit each month to build their fleets for conquest? let them mine their own damn ore and i hope the price of ships gets so high the gankers have to earn more isk than its worth to kill a hulk. they screw themselves in the end and thats the best part about it.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#380 - 2012-05-08 02:48:37 UTC
ix z'el wrote:
let them mine their own damn ore and i hope the price of ships gets so high the gankers have to earn more isk than its worth to kill a hulk. they screw themselves in the end and thats the best part about it.

And yet again we have one of these ludicrous claims.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted