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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hulkageddon made me quit

First post
Author
CirJohn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2012-05-04 08:39:34 UTC
Nummers....noob tears.

I find it especially awesome that this guy thinks he had a hulk tanked.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#202 - 2012-05-04 08:54:35 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't say I want to gank one of your characters. I just said that you should go and kill the people you perceive are doing wrong, especially since they're cowards, and you're not. Otherwise, claiming that they don't want to pvp because they're cowards just makes you a hypocrite.


Ok, well sorry if I inferred something you didn't imply. Well the problem with gankers is that you can't pvp them. You can't do anything to them in advance, thats why they are cowards. They attack only ships who can't do anything but die. If they became killable to your fleet for target locking a member, that would be at least something. They do not want to pvp, they want to grief. Even if they got a week cooldown aggro time in empire space for ganking to make them killable by anyone so we could hunt them, I would enjoy that immensely.

One thing I'd like to state for the record is that most gankers don't use alts to post on the forums. On top of that, many will flat-out tell you who their primary characters are. Using this knowledge, you (not specifically you, but the people who feel aggrieved by the gankers in general) should be able to strike back at your attackers. The problem is that the grand majority won't take the initiative to do so, even though going after mains should be much more harmful to the gankers than going after their dedicated gank alts.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Sutskop
LENINGRAD SPB Ru
#203 - 2012-05-04 09:10:36 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

So I'm mining away in my Osprey and THIS happened:

2010.04.22 15:19:00
[...]
Ship: Hurricane

[...]
2010.04.22 15:30:00
[...]
Ship: Broadsword


You were obviously canflipped, not ganked. I hope you DID learn that from your experience back then. Agreeing with the idea tho that mining alone is a tiny fraction of what EVE is about.

OP: That's why it is possible to create a noob character (or three) and totally wreck your shiny Hulk. Some people mine, some people shoot.
I won't even say "HTFU". Just learn from it. Why did it happen, and how can you avoid it.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#204 - 2012-05-04 09:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bunnie Hop
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't say I want to gank one of your characters. I just said that you should go and kill the people you perceive are doing wrong, especially since they're cowards, and you're not. Otherwise, claiming that they don't want to pvp because they're cowards just makes you a hypocrite.


Ok, well sorry if I inferred something you didn't imply. Well the problem with gankers is that you can't pvp them. You can't do anything to them in advance, thats why they are cowards. They attack only ships who can't do anything but die. If they became killable to your fleet for target locking a member, that would be at least something. They do not want to pvp, they want to grief. Even if they got a week cooldown aggro time in empire space for ganking to make them killable by anyone so we could hunt them, I would enjoy that immensely.

One thing I'd like to state for the record is that most gankers don't use alts to post on the forums. On top of that, many will flat-out tell you who their primary characters are. Using this knowledge, you (not specifically you, but the people who feel aggrieved by the gankers in general) should be able to strike back at your attackers. The problem is that the grand majority won't take the initiative to do so, even though going after mains should be much more harmful to the gankers than going after their dedicated gank alts.


Well I have never been ganked in high sec, I post because I think what happens to miners is unacceptable. But even knowing who the gankers are, there is not much you can do about it with current mechanics. You can't kill them as they are about to gank, if you fire first you get dusted by concord, if you hunt them after their aggression timer is gone, you get dusted by concord. They hide behind mechanics to grief, not to pvp.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#205 - 2012-05-04 09:31:54 UTC
Okay, but like I said in my previous post, why not go after their mains? You can wardec them, hire mercenaries, or even gank them yourself.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#206 - 2012-05-04 09:40:12 UTC
Jeremy Firewind wrote:
I find it totally untolarable, that 3 1 mill Isk ships can easily gank my tanked 300mill hull..


The real crime here is that it took 3 destroyers to gank you.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#207 - 2012-05-04 09:45:51 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Okay, but like I said in my previous post, why not go after their mains? You can wardec them, hire mercenaries, or even gank them yourself.


I haven't been in that situation so will not argue that point. I can only argue in the abstract as I think the mechanics are one sided and the psuedo pvp gankbears are pathetic. If I did fly a hulk and got ganked, you can bet there would be retribution,(but honestly I would feel naked in a mining barge). But we have alot of accounts and alot of friends, which alot of miners don't, so war decs are not something I think most could undertake. Mercs would be the only viable option for most miners I guess. But that just adds more cost to the needless loss.
Jack Ironfist
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2012-05-04 09:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Ironfist
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Okay, but like I said in my previous post, why not go after their mains? You can wardec them, hire mercenaries, or even gank them yourself.


With hulkageddon I'm torn between the culling of the stupid and laughing at the false space bravado on display.

In respect to those losing hulks, looking at the vast majority of the fits. Its little wonder that people have been losing hulks and in some (okay yes... all) cases they actually deserve to lose them. It honestly isn't very hard to take precautions and if you're set on taking the risk and mining somewhere without protection then you should be fitting to reflect that. Not throwing caution to the wind and going for max yield.

But for the gankers, whilst it is culling the stupid let's not pretend that it is very carebearish to attack targets that you can't be preemptively prevented from killing in a pvp sense.

I agree with culling the stupid but let's not pretend that the hulk ganking is the pinnacle of skill and PVP awesomeness. Its hitting targets that can't hit back before or after an attack while relying on concord for protection to gank .
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-05-04 09:52:18 UTC
Woah, someone ganked an untanked Orca with so many Tornados that it isn't even remotely cost-effective.

Add a DCII and it jumps from 80k EHP to 180k EHP.

An Orca without a DCII is like a Tengu with 4 BCUs and 6 Target Painters - Just begging to die
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#210 - 2012-05-04 09:53:52 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Woah, someone ganked an untanked Orca with so many Tornados that it isn't even remotely cost-effective.

Add a DCII and it jumps from 80k EHP to 180k EHP.

An Orca without a DCII is like a Tengu with 4 BCUs and 6 Target Painters - Just begging to die


Yeah I agree with that, the Orca can at least fit enough tank to survive all but the most determined gank squad. Shame the Hulk can't say the same.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#211 - 2012-05-04 10:00:46 UTC
Jack Ironfist wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Okay, but like I said in my previous post, why not go after their mains? You can wardec them, hire mercenaries, or even gank them yourself.


With hulkageddon I'm torn between the culling of the stupid and laughing at the false space bravado on display.

In respect to those losing hulks, looking at the vast majority of the fits. Its little wonder that people have been losing hulks and in some (okay yes... all) cases they actually deserve to lose them. It honestly isn't very hard to take precautions and if you're set on taking the risk and mining somewhere without protection then you should be fitting to reflect that. Not throwing caution to the wind and going for max yield.

But for the gankers, whilst it is culling the stupid let's not pretend that it is very carebearish to attack targets that you can't be preemptively prevented from killing in a pvp sense.

I agree with culling the stupid but let's not pretend that the hulk ganking is the pinnacle of skill and PVP awesomeness. Its hitting targets that can't hit back before or after an attack while relying on concord for protection to gank .

There is no obligation for honor in a cutthroat sandbox game. PvP is not honor. Combat is not honor. Killing is not honor. When we kill Hulks, we aren't looking for fair fights, and we're certainly not killing them out of a lack of competence to take on targets that shoot back. We kill them for the following reasons: to profit financially; to manipulate the market; to collect interesting mails/chats/threats; because we can.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Jack Ironfist
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2012-05-04 10:06:05 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There is no obligation for honor in a cutthroat sandbox game. PvP is not honor. Combat is not honor. Killing is not honor. When we kill Hulks, we aren't looking for fair fights, and we're certainly not killing them out of a lack of competence to take on targets that shoot back. We kill them for the following reasons: to profit financially; to manipulate the market; to collect interesting mails/chats/threats; because we can.


...but by way of using the same mechanics that you deride highsec mission runners and miners for using.

Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2012-05-04 10:06:36 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Woah, someone ganked an untanked Orca with so many Tornados that it isn't even remotely cost-effective.

Add a DCII and it jumps from 80k EHP to 180k EHP.

An Orca without a DCII is like a Tengu with 4 BCUs and 6 Target Painters - Just begging to die


Yeah I agree with that, the Orca can at least fit enough tank to survive all but the most determined gank squad. Shame the Hulk can't say the same.


You keep telling that, but it has been shown again and again that you can tank a Hulk enough to make a Tornado Gank completely uneffective isk-wise (nobody ganks a Hulk when he has to pay 400mil for Tornados for it).
You still haven't posted a single kill of a well tanked Hulk so far and that's with more then 2000 destroyed Exhumer/Mining Barges. There should be enough of them, right? I mean, you can't tank your Hulk, right?

http://hulkageddon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/propaganda.jpg
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#214 - 2012-05-04 10:09:02 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Woah, someone ganked an untanked Orca with so many Tornados that it isn't even remotely cost-effective.

Add a DCII and it jumps from 80k EHP to 180k EHP.

An Orca without a DCII is like a Tengu with 4 BCUs and 6 Target Painters - Just begging to die


Yeah I agree with that, the Orca can at least fit enough tank to survive all but the most determined gank squad. Shame the Hulk can't say the same.


You keep telling that, but it has been shown again and again that you can tank a Hulk enough to make a Tornado Gank completely uneffective isk-wise (nobody ganks a Hulk when he has to pay 400mil for Tornados for it).
You still haven't posted a single kill of a well tanked Hulk so far and that's with more then 2000 destroyed Exhumer/Mining Barges. There should be enough of them, right? I mean, you can't tank your Hulk, right?

http://hulkageddon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/propaganda.jpg


No, I can't tank my Hulk. But as I also said I don't have one. I don't fly anything that can't fight back. We could argue the hulk tank issue until we are both rather bored with it and get nowhere so lets not continue this dance, we have differing opinions and we aren't changing them anytime soon.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#215 - 2012-05-04 10:26:04 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Woah, someone ganked an untanked Orca with so many Tornados that it isn't even remotely cost-effective.

Add a DCII and it jumps from 80k EHP to 180k EHP.

An Orca without a DCII is like a Tengu with 4 BCUs and 6 Target Painters - Just begging to die


Yeah I agree with that, the Orca can at least fit enough tank to survive all but the most determined gank squad. Shame the Hulk can't say the same.


You keep telling that, but it has been shown again and again that you can tank a Hulk enough to make a Tornado Gank completely uneffective isk-wise (nobody ganks a Hulk when he has to pay 400mil for Tornados for it).
You still haven't posted a single kill of a well tanked Hulk so far and that's with more then 2000 destroyed Exhumer/Mining Barges. There should be enough of them, right? I mean, you can't tank your Hulk, right?

http://hulkageddon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/propaganda.jpg


fast check of killboard, this exhumer was tanked, stupidly expensive but tanked and died to a few catalysts, which I find idiotic.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16249620

I would imagine if I spent more than 2 minutes checking I would find many other tanked exhumers dusted. They simply are too weak, but meh, nothing more I can say on the topic that hasnt been said.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#216 - 2012-05-04 10:48:10 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't say I want to gank one of your characters. I just said that you should go and kill the people you perceive are doing wrong, especially since they're cowards, and you're not. Otherwise, claiming that they don't want to pvp because they're cowards just makes you a hypocrite.


Ok, well sorry if I inferred something you didn't imply. Well the problem with gankers is that you can't pvp them. You can't do anything to them in advance, thats why they are cowards. They attack only ships who can't do anything but die. If they became killable to your fleet for target locking a member, that would be at least something. They do not want to pvp, they want to grief. Even if they got a week cooldown aggro time in empire space for ganking to make them killable by anyone so we could hunt them, I would enjoy that immensely.

One thing I'd like to state for the record is that most gankers don't use alts to post on the forums. On top of that, many will flat-out tell you who their primary characters are. Using this knowledge, you (not specifically you, but the people who feel aggrieved by the gankers in general) should be able to strike back at your attackers. The problem is that the grand majority won't take the initiative to do so, even though going after mains should be much more harmful to the gankers than going after their dedicated gank alts.


Well I have never been ganked in high sec, I post because I think what happens to miners is unacceptable. But even knowing who the gankers are, there is not much you can do about it with current mechanics. You can't kill them as they are about to gank, if you fire first you get dusted by concord, if you hunt them after their aggression timer is gone, you get dusted by concord. They hide behind mechanics to grief, not to pvp.



You could try actually coming into lowsec and shooting us, no CONCORD here.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#217 - 2012-05-04 10:59:09 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't say I want to gank one of your characters. I just said that you should go and kill the people you perceive are doing wrong, especially since they're cowards, and you're not. Otherwise, claiming that they don't want to pvp because they're cowards just makes you a hypocrite.


Ok, well sorry if I inferred something you didn't imply. Well the problem with gankers is that you can't pvp them. You can't do anything to them in advance, thats why they are cowards. They attack only ships who can't do anything but die. If they became killable to your fleet for target locking a member, that would be at least something. They do not want to pvp, they want to grief. Even if they got a week cooldown aggro time in empire space for ganking to make them killable by anyone so we could hunt them, I would enjoy that immensely.

One thing I'd like to state for the record is that most gankers don't use alts to post on the forums. On top of that, many will flat-out tell you who their primary characters are. Using this knowledge, you (not specifically you, but the people who feel aggrieved by the gankers in general) should be able to strike back at your attackers. The problem is that the grand majority won't take the initiative to do so, even though going after mains should be much more harmful to the gankers than going after their dedicated gank alts.


Well I have never been ganked in high sec, I post because I think what happens to miners is unacceptable. But even knowing who the gankers are, there is not much you can do about it with current mechanics. You can't kill them as they are about to gank, if you fire first you get dusted by concord, if you hunt them after their aggression timer is gone, you get dusted by concord. They hide behind mechanics to grief, not to pvp.



You could try actually coming into lowsec and shooting us, no CONCORD here.


Having spent over 4 years there with my first account, been there, done that, nothing special.
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#218 - 2012-05-04 11:13:44 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Woah, someone ganked an untanked Orca with so many Tornados that it isn't even remotely cost-effective.

Add a DCII and it jumps from 80k EHP to 180k EHP.

An Orca without a DCII is like a Tengu with 4 BCUs and 6 Target Painters - Just begging to die


Yeah I agree with that, the Orca can at least fit enough tank to survive all but the most determined gank squad. Shame the Hulk can't say the same.


You keep telling that, but it has been shown again and again that you can tank a Hulk enough to make a Tornado Gank completely uneffective isk-wise (nobody ganks a Hulk when he has to pay 400mil for Tornados for it).
You still haven't posted a single kill of a well tanked Hulk so far and that's with more then 2000 destroyed Exhumer/Mining Barges. There should be enough of them, right? I mean, you can't tank your Hulk, right?

http://hulkageddon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/propaganda.jpg


fast check of killboard, this exhumer was tanked, stupidly expensive but tanked and died to a few catalysts, which I find idiotic.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16249620

I would imagine if I spent more than 2 minutes checking I would find many other tanked exhumers dusted. They simply are too weak, but meh, nothing more I can say on the topic that hasnt been said.


Total damage taken: 3989, this guy was NOT tanked.
Jack Ironfist
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2012-05-04 11:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Ironfist
Bunnie Hop wrote:


fast check of killboard, this exhumer was tanked, stupidly expensive but tanked and died to a few catalysts, which I find idiotic.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16249620

I would imagine if I spent more than 2 minutes checking I would find many other tanked exhumers dusted. They simply are too weak, but meh, nothing more I can say on the topic that hasnt been said.


Its terribly frustrating reading posts like this.

Look, with those modules the motivation behind the ganking goes from just plain ganking to ganking for a profit. Its exactly like that fat white rich guy strolling through the ghetto at 1 in the morning, he's made himself a target.

Then you've got the question of what were the actual factors behind this gank. Was the guy afk? did he overload his modules? did he almost escape? were the modules active? did he have sp put into good active shield tanking skills? Looking at the damage received, I'd say the modules weren't active and possibly AFK.

In this particular case, the stupid got culled. Or rather, the rich stupid guy got culled.

Here's a protip:

You put cargo modules and rigs on, you're going to have a larger cargo bay but you won't survive an average gank.
You put MLU's and cargo rigs, you're going to go okay with yield and cargo space but you won't survive an average gank.
You put neither cargo or MLUs on a fit and fit for a possible gank, you're going to have reduced cargo space and average yield but you might survive an average gank.

That said, the best prevention is just docking up or at the very least staying alert for the jump in local, the destroyers lurking and the combat probes probing.
Rond Dorlezahn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#220 - 2012-05-04 12:14:41 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:

fast check of killboard, this exhumer was tanked, stupidly expensive but tanked and died to a few catalysts, which I find idiotic.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16249620

I would imagine if I spent more than 2 minutes checking I would find many other tanked exhumers dusted. They simply are too weak, but meh, nothing more I can say on the topic that hasnt been said.



...not sure if serious

brb tanking EM against Gallente